New Age Wine Investment in Singapore
Curious about wine investment in Singapore, I asked some of my friends on what they think about wine investments. One friend told me that I should have done that three years ago, when they were first introduced in Singapore, since prices were lower then. This should that there was room for growth in investing in fine wines.
I also emailed Universal Assets Investments to find out more. I had read about how wine investors should focus on the top Bordeaux red wines and not ship them out of the country in order to prevent sub-standard handling and storing. When the sales rep called me, he told me that his company focused on new age wine from Australia, since the growth potential was even higher. They would bring in wines from Australia, and then let the customer inspect them before storing in a specialty warehouse in Singapore. The wines would be insured. Three years later, I could sell the wines for a profit.
Out of the many hundreds or thousands of wines they brought in, only a small number depreciated in value. It was thus very important to find out more about rating system by famous wine critics.
One important aspect to me is the amount of money required for investment. The sales rep told me that small time investors usually invested 20-30k to have a good portfolio of wines. Other investors with deeper pockets started in the range of 100k and more. However, he said he could look into coming up a portfolio for 10k.
One of the investors interviewed in a newspaper was Irene Ang, a local businesswoman and celebrity. She started investing quite some time back and was already reaping the benefits.
The interesting thing about wine investment is if they ever fail to work out, the investor could just open up the wines and drink them up. When I’m free, I will go down to the office to try out some of the wines and seriously consider investing in wine.
Sarah Tan- SingaporeProfit.com
Popularity: 100% [?]
KooL, you are another wine lover… Are you planning for wine bar or with F&B too?
Your friends didn’t give you the wrong advise, you should had started it years back. But my personal thinking, it’s stil not too late to start it… Go for it!
Hi Coldie, nope, I’m not planning to open a wine bar or F&B outlet. I’m just planning to buy the wine solely for investment purpose. I’ll buy the wine in bulk and hope that a few years later they would have appreciated in price.
I am an investor in fine wine from Australia for more than 3 years. I had invested in more than 35k. Since then, I had not sell a single bottle of wine as it all depend on my wine investment house to sell it thru auction. I am still waiitng. They had told me to hold on for another year and they will pay the storage fee for me for free since some of my wine had already exceed the 3 years storage and need to pay for the storage fee again.
Hi Funinvest: Do you think the wine investment house is not selling because the wines are not making good returns yet or they don’t think they can get good buyers for the wine?
So, in your opinion, will you still invest in this if you had a choice?
Hi Funinvest, care to share which company you invested with?
profiters.com
ok. Now we have profiters international inaddition to AWI,AWM and UAG
I guess tats the problem with new age wines. They are not that easy to find buyers. No matter how much growth potential, it’s useless if you can’t sell them away and you will be stuck for many years with the wines.
Yes, I agree. Just found out that many investors are stuck due to lack of buyers.
Whether its struck or not, depend much on what your broker can do. some establish company may have overlook on this point which allow other new growth investment firm to overtake them.
hidee, u have wine in profiters as well? i only started a portfolio with them recently and what i know from one of the broker there is their company is set up just this year 2007.
hidee? are u a broker from some trading firm too?
i just invested on some 2006 en primeur with Profiters International. i did ask for the company profile in ROC document and Insurance Document that i promptly recieved in pdf file thru my mail as i pointed out that they can’t trade off investor wine after 3yrs. i was shock by your comment as i found out that profiters was only less than 1yr old and got a telling off by the broker there? i was so so embarass. is profiters posting a thread to your company?
thanks for your info!!! which made me a fool!!!
i think most imptly is to do proper homework first before entering into any form of investments including wines. looking at the previous posts.. its not important on how long the company operates but rather is your broker doing the job for u.. service still very much counts in this trade.. be it en primeur or aussie wines, please do your homework on the wines your brokers are recommending and at the same time, get him to update you regularly!! in any investments, there are bound to have good and bad investments, likewise, honest and rogue brokers.. for unsold wine in storage, clients could get any brokerage house to sell them off.. you need not go back to the same broker or firm..
hidee dont keep quiet and stare at the comments. bullshit birdhead
ya.. sorry. I invested in another company. and i only have 3k. Im bullshitting and im not birdhead. Im a dickhead.
Hi! I’ve invested in a number of wines myself. I feel the beauty of wine investment is the transparency when it comes to understanding the pontential of such an investment. Unlike anything else out there, its rather direct. One thing to watch out for are of course brokers. Make sure you get one that is able to give you best advise instead of salesmen who are driven only by making commision from the deal ( i know they may be hard to find but they do exsist). I was lucky enough to come across a guide that was quite helpful too. You may find it at http://www.asiafinewineinvestment.com A unbias look into wine investment.
Hi all, please be civil when you leave comments here. Thanks.
Hi all,
Firstly i’m a wine investment consultant.
Secondly, i feel that wines from different regions are worthy investments but make sure you do your homework. During interactions with clients, i find there are misconceptions impressed upon them. Wine consultants have more intimate knowledge than the avg investor so can provide better advice. Therefore, discernment is key.
Lastly, no doubt wine investment is attractive but please invest carefully.
[...] Wine investment is a popular topic that people search to come to my website. While views on whether to purchase Australian wines as investment are divided, there are a large number of people who drink Australian wine. There are a number of Australian wine clubs in the world, and any wine bottle that bears the insignia of an Australian wine club means that it is top quality wine. Only first class wines are permitted to carry the sign. [...]
Hi, I have invested in Australian wine. They are kept in Cougar. Any of you invested in this too? Any of you manage to trade your Australian wine collection?
http://www.asiafinewineinvestment.com
Check It out
I had invested over 10k in aussie wines with uag for more than 2yrs and now when I want to sell it, they are having a hard time to find buyers, this has dragged on for more than 2mths. When they send semi-annual report, they state there that my wine has appreciated 15-18% afte 2yrs but I’m not even sure where they get the info from because they cannot even sell it for that price.
Be careful out there!
to frustrate_wine..
2yrs? u think its enough? i invested on my wines for 3-5 years than i see the returns.. as for yourself that’s too fast you have to be patient good things dont came fast bro.. I believe u you want to see BIG BUCKS its best to leave it up to them. I Believe UAG wont run away la, they have such great repu in Asia.
If you are not risk taker than at the first place you shouldn’t have invest.. Think positively not stupid.
Stay with 1st Growth labels from Bordeaux and invest only in exceptional good vintages. Also, there are too many so call “wine inevestment” firm out there that are more than eager to sell you all sorts of crabby “investment wine” but they fall short of delivering what they promise when it comes to selling it.
Stay away from Aussie wines. They are great wines to drink, collect and own but from an investkment perspective, forget it. Look up Christie’s and Sotheby’s auction website and you will notice they hardly ever auction new world wines. Most of it are old world wines.
The one single most important thing to consider when invetsing in fine wine is how much can you sell your wine for and how long does it take for the selling process to complete. There’s no use if you have paper gains of 1000% but you cannot find a buyer.
Remember, you are investing for a profit. If you want to drink, go buy the wines from a wine merchant. They have plenty of good wines for sale at very affordable price.
Hi there,
My name is Nicolas , I just signed up. I wasn’t sure where to make this post, and I apologize in advance, if I posted inappropriately,
please advise.
Early last year, I stumbled upon information about
investment private clubs, that do not trade
publicly. The rates of investment
return, which one could
receive by participating in such
funds, looked
surprisingly high at
first, but as I investigated more reviews about them, I joined selected ones too. Today, I consider
myself being the successful
entrepreneur. To take my online adventures on the next level, I
set up the blog, which
provides detailed information
about online investing. You can see my current picks, click here. I would appreciate
your comments.
HYIP is nothing more than PONZI scams. triple digit returns? come’on, get real. The whole’s economic problem would be solve if this kind of returns are real. Look up my name in wikipedia for more info.
Hi wine lovers, I guess many of you have more to share regarding this topic than I do. If you have sold your Australian wine, what sort of returns do you get?
Australine wines are fabulous wines to drink as they are really affordable and easy onthe palate, especially for new comers.
But as an investment, forget it. Only a few French and Italian labels are worthy as an investment.
hi, do you guys think that higher points = higher profits? while these wines might have the potential, does it necessary mean they’ll fetch higher price? I’ve been approached by profiters.com to invest in 3 crates of Australian wines (2 different types, 94 & 96 points respectively).
in general, should people even invest in Australian wines (no matter how many points they’re awarded)? thanks!
Any of you – wine investors in Singapore – interested to give some comments in my publication to talk about your gains and losses and methods of investing in wines? I am a section editor of an investment weekly based in Singapore. I am keen to hear what you guys have to say about wine investing, which has really picked up over the past three years with locals here.
Just to share; I bought my first case of 2004 Latour back in 05 at $300 per bottle via enprimeur. Sold it last year at $750 and took the proceeds to buy into Mouton 06 en primeur. Prices of my 2 cases of Pavie 05 and 2 mixed cases of “best of bordeaux 05″ have also doubled or tripled. But i am holding them for long-term.
Those interested in sharing their experiences, do email me at kelvin.tan@bizedge.com
Cheers!
Hi Kelvin, may i know which company did u bought ur en primeur from?
Hi.. only recently heard abt fine wine investments.
Anyone knows the reputable companies dealing with Bordeaux and keep their wines in Bordeaux?
So far, only see EWI.
Any comments?
I invested into aussie wine last year. As I have some urgent need fo cash, wanted to sell out and realise it is very illiquid..Broker also told me must hold for few years can then see value. I told him I dun mind selling at cost or even lower..He mentioned he will try and since then, been getting to get hold of him, even calling him on his handphone..
i’m looking for buyers now for all my premium french wines.may i know how can i sell it off as soon as possible.I have a big selection of old vintage bordeaux and some La tache here.i would like to sell it off below retail price.anybody interested pls contact me thru stephen.trang@yahoo.com.
Hi all,
So far, there are some firms that provides wines as investments. Can anyone share their experiences?
1. Premium Liquid Assets (1st Growth French Wines)
2. Equity Wine Investments (Selected Good Vintage French Wines)
3. Australia Wine Index (Australian Wines)
4. Profiters International
5. Asset Wine Management
6. Prestige Wine Pte Ltd (French Wines)
7. Crystal Wines (Wine Merchant)
8. Corndale Consultants (Wine Merchant)
9. Hock Tong Bee (Wine Merchant)
10. Univeral Assets Group (French and Australian Wines)
Any others that I miss?
Hi, I received a call told me I got a free ticket and accomodation to Thailand. The girl told me I can collect it after I join their “Live preview”. I went there, they told me about the wine investment.
The company’s name is ProjectMedia.
I am glad I didn’t join the wine investment immediately…after read your comment. Yup, we gotta invest carefully…
Hope this help. Opps ya, after their “live preview” they told me they have given up all their vouchers and they are going to mail it to me. Don’t know whether is true or not. But I learnt new things.
I think wine investment is nothing more than a ponzi scam,I invested 150,00, dollars worth of french wine a year ago with the promise that it would appreciate over time. Its been a year since I have told my broker to sell it since its a profit now.. this on top of the management fee and a hefty 12% they charged for selling but until now, he cannot confirm that the wine were sold and no idea when I can get back my money… this is nothing more than a scam… I intend to report to the authorities to investigate further… this is another big scam…
hi Aron Loh, may i know which company u brought ur wine from… this information is vital since people are investing in wine.
I had very bad experience with Australian Wine Index. The broker turnover is high. They tend to be very zealous in promoting new wines to me, but when I want to sell, the brokers are extremely hard to reach. Never return phone calls, never answer emails, never follow up even when they promise to do so. I’ve been calling my broker for the past 6 months to try to liquidate. I can understand when I am asked to hold because of market conditions, but I can’t put up with inattentive service and unfulfilled promises.
I’ve had friends who have profitted from Australian Wines, but I guess the service quality of the brokerage is also very important. I’m never returning to AWI after selling this current lot.
I am selling my wine investments too. From the 12% fees, it appears to be the same company that Aron is involved in. Invested a year ago. Signed up to sell 2 months ago but haven’t smelled my money yet. I wonder what delay tactic they’ll use next. Basically the promise of 4-15% returns is a bag of hot air. Granted the index has dropped. Not that I mind getting less. Now even getting the investment out has proven difficult. And they want me to hold longer and invest more. The speed at which they cash my cheques was amazing. When it comes to selling, even my broker cannot be sure whether his boss has sold the lots or not. Such is the industry practice we are dealing with. I have already updated my broker about my reservations and intentions. I’m have been waiting for his updates…since Christmas. Aron, before you report to higher authorities, read the fine print you signed. On the promises of fantastic returns, that’s between you and your broker, not stated in B&W, though I don’t know how useful SMSes are, so keep all of them. The brokers also work on mutual trust and have their reputations to keep, so dragging them through mud is at best, a last resort. I agree that the entire setup is a Ponzi scheme, just like many other investment schemes. Where do you expect them to find money to pay you? As long as I get my money back, it’s fine. On the other hand, if clients don’t make money, I don’t see why the brokers should still get their commission, esp for all the bad advise. The only way we can get around them is through public education. I’m planning to ‘question’ them at their next public forum ie if I don’t get my money back soon.
Hi all, this seems like quite a hot topic. I was wondering if any of you would be able to share your stories about wine investments with me, I’m a journalist with the Straits Times and writing an article on this. If you have anything to get off your chest, or anything to recommend, regarding your experiences with wine investment, please e-mail me at twong@sph.com.sg. Thanks!
Hi All,
I have a bad experience with Universal Assets Group. In last 2 years, they have changed my brokers for a few times. All the brokers are just concerned to sell their wines. The last broker never even call me and update me about my portfolio. The worst thing is that i need to call them several times just to see my own wine (begged them, precisely) !!! They also never send me an update on my wines. What i understand from the warehouse is that they will received list of wines of their customers and they should send it to the customers so we as the customers know how many bottles are in the WH. They also never update the current price of the wines, event though they promised to do that every year!!! Just read their shiny brochure & website. No inssurance certificate sent to me until today. There are once i called my broker to sell one of my wine, but never heard news from him.
I am not sure if this company worth your attention if you are talking about wine investment. Oh yeah, be careful with the “guaranteed” return promised to you too, xx% return in 6 months, 12 months, etc. Who knows how can they “guarantee” your money?
Generally, I am ok with wine investment. The most important thing is that you find a good broker, broker that can update you about your wines, gives you tons of information & advise, whether you buy from them or not, a broker that won’t turn their head when you say “no” to them. Another advise is that, i think we should look more to French wine rather than OZ wine because the demand are really there. Only buy the very very top end wine. If you can buy a superb vintage of those wines and hold it, it should do well in a long run.
Hi Bordeux,
You seem to have a common problem.
Care to leave your email address so we can communicate?
well,
seems like have been hearing bad comments and feedbacks about wine investment companies in singapore…
in many other forums, it seems that almost all investors are facing the same problem… brokers only call them to buy wines, but when investor want to sell their wines, it will always be very very difficult..
is there any good wine investment company where any investor have seen their returns from?? can please do recommend good and reputable wine investment companies for the benefit of serious wine investors..
while, i heard that this company called berry bros is very reputable.. other than that, hmmmm many of them are scams….beware…
Still no sale after 4 months. Agent incommunicado. Wine index is turning around and when economy improves, the returns will come, provided these companies are willing to part with the money in the first place. Like Bordeux said, agent good at selling you wines and promising you the world. However when it comes to you selling, they claim that their boss handles everything and they don’t know anything till their boss updates them ie if they bother to call you. Mind you, this company with branches everywhere, has been touted by every newspaper here and present at several investment fairs. Legal processes can be quite painful and you stand to lose more. If you have the certs, going to another company to sell will set you back more as some claim 20% commissions. Does anyone have any other good ideas on how to deal with these delay strategies and getting their rightful returns? Short of marching down to the office. I will be writing to the boss next.
Hi BMX,
Well guess you are having very bad experience. Well, you invest in French or Australian wines? Do you have the wines in Singapore? Well, like you mention that the company does not give you any guarantee in B&W, so think the chances of that company selling for you will be very less. Well, I do not know if marching down to the office or writing to the boss will help you at all. I also do not know what is best for you. Maybe, you can start to ask around the wine merchants in Singapore whether they are willing to buy your wines.
Well, it would really be beneficial to all investors if anyone of you who encounter bad experience to list down the company name here, at least a hint or indirectly. At the same time, if any of you have good experience, please also list down the really good investment company here to share with serious investors.
Well, I would suggest that all of you do not buy any wines from any company before doing your own research. Do not trust any of the brokers, they are just doing a job with your money. You can research the current and past wine prices from http://www.winesearcher.com. Do take note that these prices are retail prices, so your wines in bond should be at least 10-20% lower than retail price to be considered a good buy.
Dear all,
it seems that AWM has just formed up a new wine investment company named Vino En Primuer. I am not sure if this is true. However, its a very high chance this company is formed by same ppl who form AWM….
previously, a lot of wine scam company in UK and australia are using this same style. After establishing a company for some years and think it cannot carry on anymore, they will form new company dealing with wine investment again with a different name to start all over again….
well, i cant confirm this information is true, but beware of any investment scam or frauds as there are just too many in the market..
Thanks for the insight ‘Wine’.
Apologies for not being able to reveal the company name as I’m looking into some form of recourse. I invested in 1st growth French En Primeur. The wines are kept in France. I have the certs and therefore the liberty to sell them myself. Unfortunately, the current crisis resulted in declining wine prices since Q4 last year. Although they seem to be picking up of late, they will not reach their previous highs over the next few years, unless Chinese buying increases. Already Crystal Wines is selling them at a slight discount. If your strategy is long term, most investments will hold.
What I’m concerned about is why the delay in sales even after the sales contract has been signed. There is no fine print to gurantee the sale. I wanted to bail out early due to the decline and didn’t expect issues like this to happen. If they had sold there and then, I would not have landed in this predicament.
These chaps are always overseas, not in the office, ignoring all your SMSes and calls, taking weeks to fax sales forms, not wanting you to go down to the office to deal with someone else, not updating your account…..etc, etc. Can you deal with all the above ?? Even my insurance and Kim Eng brokers are more responsive and responsible.
Anyway, I will have to hold out long term now (>3-5yr rather than 1yr) and look to give someone else the commission. These brokers will ALWAYS advise you to invest short-term. They will tell you that they need their commission too, even though long term returns are much better.
hi bmx,
1st growths french wines are one of the safest wines to invest in. which vintage did you purchase from?? since you said its en primeur, then it should be 2006 or 2007, while i hope urs is the 06 and not the 07, as the 2007 en primeur is really suffering very badly that all merchants in the world are having a hard time selling their stocks.
2ndly, what is the price you purchase from the company then?? u bought them last year?? hope that you have got ur wines at a reasonable price, because after all the markups from the merchants until this company , plus their operation costs for directors, and brokers commission, i dunno how much is ur wines really worth.
well, you must remember that crystals wine are selling at retailer price, and the exact value of ur wines should be at least 10-20% lower than retailer price.
im glad to hear you have all the certs under ur name. since ur wines are stored in bordeaux, have you check the reputation of the merchant or warehouse that is holding on to your wines in france?? this is very important, as even with all the certs you have, you will still get back nothing if the merchants or warehouse close down.
well, seem like ur broker or company is not giving u any after sales service at all… i believe their main priority is just in selling wines and making sales, after that they dun care about long term service at all…. seems like all wine investment company i heard in singapore are the same… yours is french wine, so should be premium or equity right.. currently, these two companies have better reputation then the remaining few which do aussie wines as well, so hope that your wines are really in good hands..
haha, you really believe these brokers only get their commission after they sell the wines for you???? will you work in such a sales job where you only get commission after 3-5 years???? ask them for their salary slip and u will be surprise some are getting commission of 1k to 10k every week. ask around any of your friends who went interview for wine broker job and u will know the truth..
anyway, no matter urs is 05, or 06 , i believe you have to hold your wines for minimum of 5-10 years before they matures and ppl start drinking them and stocks become lesser for your wine value to increase more rapidly… the bull run for wines which started in early 2000s has stopped temporarily cos of the recession. it will take a while before the market for wine gets better.. if urs is 07, i can only say good luck.. chances are low…again depending on how much you buy in the first place…
I had invested in Aust wine index, Profiters international and Equity Wine. I have not yet liquidate my wine portfolio but recently i requested for a valuation report and i find it is easier to get valuation on my stocks or Insurance ILP investment than wine investment portfolios. I really hope this sort of investment is not a ponzi scam like what happen at madoff in USA.
Anyone of you guys and ladies investors liquidated ur wine investment during this period. Care to share your experience?
To be fair among the 3 companies, i got the fastest reply from equity wine and my wine manager was professional and prompt in his reply
hi prime,
nice to hear your experience… just wondering why did you invest with so many companies???????
anyway, there is a high chance most of these sg companies are just like ponzi, well i explain a bit here in case many investors dunno what is ponzi, means now they ask u invest 10k, one year later, they sell ur portfolio to another investor for 12k, and they take their commission of maybe 10%, then after 2nd year sell that same portfolio for maybe 16k, keeping 10% again, and 3rd year sell 20k. so they will carry on to sell the same portfolio again and again until a time when the price of the portfolio is too high and noone wants to buy it.. of cos many investors who dunno the actual value and did not do any research will still continue to buy the portfolio…. ponzi is the most used scheme by scammers and it could last 5 years,10 or even 50-100 years… so be careful of this…..landbanking uses this most often as its very hard for investors to check the real value of their “land” oversea..
well, about liquidation of wine portfolio, out of ten investors, i think only one is able to do so, most likely his portfolio will be sold to future investors… he is also the one where the company will get him to buy more wines after helping him sell this lot, if the company feel you have no potential of being their customer again after helping you to sell, think they will use all sorts of delay tactics mention above.. so what i can advise to investors who wanna sell their wines, try to act like you are just buying small now to test test, and say that once you got the confidence after seeing the first profits, then you will surely buy more wines, say you got 50-100k budget, sell them, dun let them sell you, if u succeed and they really sell ur wines for you, once take the cheque, disappear and never buy from them again, say you suddenly got urgent matters need cash, give some excuse and sorry byebye..hope this tactic works for some of you.. good luck.
well, glad to hear your manager at equity has given you very good service, hard to find good sales service nowadays… but do take note that he can give you the best service in the world, but if he or the company couldnt sell your wines, you still end up with tens of thousands of wines. if they are in sg, at least you can drink them, if they are stored oversea, you may be left with just a piece of paper…
i would really advise all investors to stop investing in anymore wines for now, dun care what the broker or sales person said, they always tell you now is the best time, limited offer, must make decision now, if not no more chance. .. make sure you do all the research first before you invest….
Thanks Wine,
I invested in ’05-07. Only the 07′s are first tranches.
My broker is still playing the MIA game whenever I sms or call him for updates. I know he has been in this line for a while, jumping from one “reputable” company to another. Are the bosses aware of this or are they all in cahoots?? It is a reputable company with all that bullshit about catering to clients needs.
I’m a little worried that I’ll have to contend with the same obstacles trying to sell my investments during good times as well, after what I’ve experienced the past year??
Does anyone have any viable solutions?? I believe most investors who have written in here just want their money back. Thanks.
well bmx,
really sorry to hear ur broker is playing mia game with you. in fact, there isnt any real “reputable” company in singapore for wine investment as of today… hopefully there will be one in the future.. and even companies dealing with land banking for more than 10-20 years and consider “reputable” may also be just a ponzi scheme..like what prime mention abt madoff, so huge and “reputable” then, and what happen? just a ponzi scam..
hmmm you invested in 05-07?? thats 3 vintages.. 05 is one of the best vintage in french, so if you got it at a low price, you will have no worries getting other wine merchant to sell for you..
06 is just normal and 07 is another normal vintage, but the value of 06 and 07 en primuer is too high, which have cost lots of problems with wine merchants around the world trying to sell off their 07 stocks…now as the 08 en primuer campaign is around the corner, and most likely the value of 08 will be much lower than 07, and 08 produce better quality wines, thus your 07 is overvalued and not as good quality then the cheaper 08.
thus, unless you wait 10-30 years later, i dun think you can sell your 07 so easily… so future investors pls take note to only invest in best and outstanding vintages like 05,03 or 00 and other older vintages for the safest bet.. any other normal vintage will be more riskier and probably a longer term investment..
well bmx, have you visited their office? how long have you invested with them?? since your wines are so young, i dun think they can sell for you also… so ask urself what do you really want from ur broker right now??? what is the valuation report your broker told you about ur wines?? did they say they will be able to sell ur wines today???
anyone else having problems with Universal Assets Group’s “guarantee” buyback scheme?? Bordeux, u and i seem to have the same problem as well…. the only thing is i went straigth to their CEO and he also plays the cat and mouse game very well…. with regards to the buyback scheme, UAG was supposed to buy back the wines from me at 10% profit at the begining of feb, it was only after i prompted them in mid feb what happened, they sent me the sales proceed form to sign, on it, “promising?” me that i will get my money back within 30 days. 30 days came and went, and still no sound no picture from UAG, bugged my agent who subsequently gave me the CEO’s no and i contacted him. was promised that the money was ready and my agent will “deliver” it to me by 1st wk of apr. thereafter, the cat and mouse game began. finally managed to “hunt” down the CEO and gave him a deadline to sort out these issues. in the middle of all these mess, my broker resigned!!!! talk abt coincidence?!?!?
anyway, hope to rally investors who are in the same situation with me from UAG to “demand” that they see to their promises… anyone out there???
Concern – I have similiar concern with that company for breach of contract regarding the payment. I have lodge a police case and the person in charge said they cannot begin investigation against the company unless there are more than 1 report.
wow.. seem interesting and serious case…
well, good luck to all uag investors and hopefully more complaints will come and investigation will proceed..
and then we will cheers to the first casualty of wine investment firm in sg….UAG gonna be the first?????
then we see who else will follow and who will remain..
Leoster: this is my email add: adrian.awyong@gmail.com
email me and we will discuss further in details what further actions we can take
If there are more people affected by this default of payment, please do leave a message. It’s more efficient for us to pool our resources together. Thanks
well good luck to both of you leoster and concern.. hope you guys will succeed and help more ppl in sg be more wary of these companies..
leoster
breach of contract you can also carry out civil suit or report to CASE. im not sure if police will be helpful in this matter. But it is yr rights as the company has not honor the agreement as you have stated in yr description.
In my opinon, as long as there is tangible goods such as physical wines on hand,it is not so much a ponzi scheme like WINE has mentioned. Ponzi is usually on non tangible products like structure financial-linked products. Or u may called it a money-game.
Our HDB flats are churned n churned in the marketplace as well but it is buying n selling of a real product.I have made $ selling my CCK flat but loss $ selling Bedok one and I cant complain to police that it is a Ponzi scheme bcos the fact is prices react according to market factors. If you have a case of Lafite or Petrus 1982, bought 20 yrs ago n sell now, u will not say that u make money thru Ponzi but purely thru investment. It works likewise for properties, stocks or arts. I believe land banking works the same way. In Singapore if u ‘land bank’ Orchard Road 30 years ago, Punggol 15 years ago, u will be a multi millionaire today. Just like there is a diff between a legimate MLM company like Amway as compared to the ‘famous’ Sunshine Empire. Not everything is a Ponzi scheme.
I buy wines, some i keep some i sell; i buy watches, some i keep some i sell; some make, some loss, thats investment or trading. As long you have good knowledge in wines like WINE, u will know what yr broker present to you and be able to make the right judgement n decision. However I do not agree that only 1st growth french is a good bet as there r many good labels that can be a gd buy or investment, if you want to put it that way. Even 2nd wine Carruades de lafite 2004 that i bought in 2005 can make $$ when i bought it in en primeur and sold it in 2008. Investment needs knowledge but there is no guarantee.
Blessed.
akela
great post.. you are right in a way that wine and land is a tangible product and may not be ponzi.. however many fraud companies are using the ponzi style to make money.. what i mean is they get the product, eg wine at $50 per bottle from a merchant, so they markup the price and sell at maybe $100 per bottle, cos they need to earn some profits for their directors, staffs, operation cost and brokers commission, after a year, the value of the wine may increase to $120, or remain at $100 or drop to $80, but to attract more investors, they may sell this wine to a 2nd batch of investors at $140 per bottle, so first investor make profit of ard $30, after minus commission, so will be tempted to buy more wines… now after another year, the same wine is sold to 3rd investor at $180, then one year later to 4th investor at $250, then a year later 5th investor at $300 per bottle…… so no matter the market is doing well or bad, they will make it seem like the investor is making profit…. the 5th investor who bought at $300 per bottle may be buying at too high a price… so in the end, he could be making a loss if the real value of the wine is actually only $200 per bottle….many investors do not know the actual value of the wine and may be buying wines at retail or higher than retail value, of cos this scheme would not work on investor who know the wine market well.. so after 10-20 years, the same lot of wines could be sold from investor to investor for many times, and there will be a time where almost all investors are buying wines at too high a value and thus could not sold them…
well, the above is just an example.. and it has been used by many wine fraud company in australia, uk and landbanking as well… and what happen in the end is the company will close down.. the investor will be lucky if he have the wines under his name and can drink them, many are stuck with a piece of paper saying they own these wines when the wines are actually not under their name, or the physical stocks are not there at all, as they thought they are stored in uk warehouse or somewhere….
land is worse, with a big piece of land owned by 100 or more investors, which part belong to who??? and what are the investor going to do with this land when the company close down… its even harder to really find out the value of uk or us land, so the land they bought may be 10 times lower in value than what they paid for… thus ponzi for land is even easier as the company determine their own value of the land to sell to investors…
thus, i will never never never go into land banking, and will only deal with reputable merchants for wine investment after doing my own thorough research and not trust the salespeople..
i have heard stories of ppl buying aussie wine for $500 per bottle, when this wine is retailing at $200-$500 per bottle… how is these investors who bought this wine going to sell?????? well, only well is to sell to another naive investor at $600 per bottle.
well, for hdb flats or singapore properties, at least you are able to find out the actual value quite easily, though there a case last year when a property agent purposely undervalued a property for his seller.. think that property is valued at 900k, his boss wife bought from his seller at 600-700k?? and then sell to another buyer at 900k earning 200-300k easily… so in end, the seller found out and sue the agent and his boss for fraud..
you are right, 1st growths are not the best, many other wines have proven to give investors much higher returns than the 1st growths…well knowledge is very important.. what i mean is 1st growths are the safest bet due to their track records and brand..
well, you are right knowledge is very important, and you need to buy the right wines at the right time at a low price and sell at the right time at a high price….
well the above is just my opinion, correct me if im wrong.. as its really good for more to share and more of us can learn…
thanks akela for your info..
As with everything else in the investment world, someone will be left carrying the baby when the music stops.
Definitely there are black sheeps in the mkt abusing good instrutments into frauding tools (wines, arts, land, oil, ostrich farming, pyramid MLM, Madoff etc). Sunshine Empire is an excellent local eg. In fact, LEOSTER & CONCERN case do sounds like one as an investment should not have guarantee returns, especially when it comes to a tangible trading product which is unlike warrant or bonds.
Everyone in biz is looking at making profit. So it is only right for a company to bring in a product or service and to cover the operation cost, comms and profit. This applies to all business from wanton mee to Rolex to hair dresser. Nothing wrong with that. A wine investment brokerage house provide a one stop service to buy, ship, store, exit for clients. Not everyone is as well informed like WINE. Commoners like me, have no contact with negociants in France hence relying on service provider. Just like getting a property agent to sell my flat, i pay a commission. Nothing to brag about. Biz makes the world go round if not there will be recession everyday. Before CNY I went to dental clinic with my boy and both of us spent $480 for checking, scaling and 1 refill for me. Over-price? Im not sure but cant call the dentist Ponzi for sure. If not willing to let ppl make $$$ out of you, do it yrself. Simple. My neutral personal opinion, no offence to anyone.
If the Australian label is Penfolds Grange or Hill of Grace, then it could fetch $500. I doubt a bt of Jacob’s Creek (without prejudice) can do such wonder. Hence it is important that customers need to have some understanding & knowledge before investing, as well as the ethical selling practice from the brokerage is also important. The fraud by the property agency was despicable and they have paid the price for the crime. Not worth it. Also the exit for wines should not be just churning from one clients to another clients for collection n investment only. Bcos it is a consumable product unlike watches n antiques/arts, it should be traded into the open market including distribution channel. I have managed to sell off my Grange to the marketplace n not to another investor.
I bought or invested in some wines as well, such as 1999 Lafite n Mouton. Not a fantastic vintage but I bought them bcos my son was born in 1999. I will keep them n probably drink it on his wedding day, haha. The price has relatively gone up from my buying price, so even if I were to sell it, it will be profitable. Others labels includes Pavie 2000, Lafite 2003, 2005, Cos d estournel 2003, Penfolds Grange2000,2001,2002 which probably I will keep them for profit. Hence u can see my so call investment perspective is different. And I bought these wines through local & overseas wine investment/brokerage companies and but at sensible buying price.
Buy the right thing at the right time at a low price and sell at the right time at a high price is ideal investment theory but not everytime u will get it right. I have suffered 70% losses in unit trust…sianz. In investment there is always RISK. Invest when only u can take that risk and measure it with the returns. If you can accept it, then go for it if not keep money in fixed deposit n enjoy 2% interest or like my grandma, keep in Milo tin.
Blessed.
akela
well, i am not against any company marking up the price to make profits.. but the markup must be resonable.. if you think its ok for company to bring in product to make money, i now go buy penfolds from merchant at $400 and i sell u $800, u ok to let me earn the money??? a wine investment firm provide one stop service to buy , ship, store and exit?? yes, of cos there is such reputable company around… maybe 1 out of 10… most company is a one stop service to buy,ship,store and NO EXIT for the clients… and
nothing wrong with that??? just like any biz from wanton mee to rolex to hairdresser???
penfolds grange avg retail price since 1999 vintage is ard $400-$500, and retail price means including all the GST, Duty taxes, custom permit clearance etc, (these taxes ranges widely in diff parts of the world) … so you buy at $500 in bond, you may need a long period of maybe at least 5-10 years to gain back the capital…so if you got ur penfolds 2000, 2001, 2002 at $500 each and u saying its good value??? u must be kidding me… if you got the 1998 penfolds grange at $500 now, then that is really a good value.. however penfolds grange is a really good wine, so investors who buy at retail value to start will have no worry making profits in the long long term…maybe similar to fixed deposit if the company is still ard to sell the wines..
so, from what you mention, it seems like you have been successful in selling off your wines and earning profits, and you are able to buy wines from local and oversea firms at sensible buying price..
how abt sharing with all the investors here which company u invest with… and how do u sell of ur wines.. now the major concern for all these investors is they cant sell their wines, why dun buy you buy from these investors and get their wines at a “fantastic value” while letting the company earn their commission and that is only right for any company in biz..
so its now a win win win situation, investors here can sell their wines at profits, their companies can earn the commission and lastly , you will get more wines at “excellent value”
WINE, im stating a biz in general perspective, tat an operation needs to cover its op cost to keep the biz substainable. All biz ppl do make make up whether it is a $3 noodle, $8000 watch or $20 haircut. If a company is not able to provide a satisfactory service to clients eventaully it will run out of biz, be it a wine investment company or wanton mee stall.
If u buy a Grange 99 at $400 i wont buy from u at $800. bcos i know there is no such price. It is similiar when come to buy watches, I will not pay for a steel rolex datejust w/o diamonds for $18000. It does not justify. Hence knowing info and having knowledge like you is important. Like u have mentioned, to buy 1998 Grange at $500 now is a gd buy. I mentioned the fact that IF THE LABELS r Grange or Hill of Grace then it is at the $500 price range. I did not say that i bought all the Grange at $500 value or all Grange should be purcahsed at $500. I bought them at $300+ to $400 few years back not now. I sold my case 2002 Grange at $520. I bought Lafite 2003 at $700 a bt thru a local wine merchant who sells en primeur. In a situation that a investor has bought Grange 99 at $800 and that will be a bad situation. And you are suggesting that I should buy from them at a ‘fantastic value’ and sell it at a profit for them? I dun run a Ponzi firm.
Im writing in this forum as an exchange of views and opinions. I am not a big time investor neither a refine wine connoisseur. I only buy bcos of interest and drinking purpose. If i can make $$ out of it, good why not. Otherwise i can drink it. As u can see i even buy 1999 which is nt a good vintage but it is for sentimental values. People buys things when they feel that it suits their needs. I bought 1999 mouton bcos my son was born in 1999 and my Chinese horoscope is sheep and the Mouton 1999 label is a sheep.
Overall, ppl will need to be careful and have info n knowledge before any investment or even a simple purchase such as a watch or electronic item (sim lim square!!!)
Blessed.
akela,
thank you for sharing. well, i do understand that all biz need to cover its op cost to sustain, its just how the method they go about doing it. lots of shrewd business person are making use of naive investors or ppls money to earn quick money. the big donations scam few years ago or many other companies which i do not know are using lots of scheme just to make profits for themselves. it is ok for wanton mee store or watch store to close down cos of poor service, at least the consumer already eaten the mee or buy the watch for own use, not with the mindset of able to sell the mee or watch for profits.
if wine investment or landbanking firm close down, thousands of investors are stucks with thousands of wines and many others are stuck with just a piece of paper stating they own these land or wines which are oversea.
so what is happening is many investors are stuck with wines they bought at too high a value initially, and the company who got them to buy are playing MIA game, not selling or Exiting for them. Do you have any advices for these investors?
it good to know that you have got all ur penfolds or other wines are really good value from reputable merchants. the issue now is many investors do not know which company is really trustworthy..are u able to recommend some?
anyway, scheme from mlm, timeshare, wine, land, email scam, work at home scam and etc etc etc has been happening for many many years, with new ideas coming up which is pretty similar… they always attract with the concept of “getting rich quick” but why is still so many ppl still willing to spend their hard earn money on these schemes???
so overall , like you mentioned, ppl need to be careful and have info n knowledge before any investment..
thanks for sharing.. at least u are one of the few who managed to really benefit from wines either for interest or investment..
WINE, very gd points. I hope more ppl will read about what you said and think before they get into those ‘GET RICH QUICK” concept or scheme and usually it is a scam. Always do yr homework, be it shares, wines, arts, property or whatever. When someone came up to tell me OILPOD & Sunshine Empire (SE) lucrative returns, I find them too unrealistic. If USA land has oil, why wouldnt US government take it n use it domestically hence no need to buy from middle east and sell it to us to make $$$; if SE project is so lucrative, GIC will buy over n invest with state $$$ n if James Phang is really ‘better than W Buffet’ he would have be appointed to be Temasek Holdings CEO n not charged in court.
PPL are too impatient and wants instant gratification when comes to investment or biz. Hence many ppl are caught in those scams. the GREED for money is the root of all evil.
As for LEOSTER & CONCERN, I sincerely advise you to take action if there is no payout by the company. Report it to CPIB n CAD. Work together and take collective effort against the company. Ironically i did buy Grange from UAG at gd price $380 like i ve mentioned.
For those who bought wines at high price initially, there is nothing much u can do. Learn the lesson well. Take it as school fees. When u buy AIG stocks at US$50 what can u do now? Army jargon – LL. For wines, either drink it for pleasure or arrange with the brokerage firm or any agency to sell it at market price. CUT LOSS like shares. Bobian.
As for those who have so-call wines in foreign land, ask for documents from the brokerage firm to prove the existence. Like in SIN, other than those duty paid and in my wine fridge, I have them in bonded warehouse like XII Degrees undr hock tong bee where they give an iventory report. If not, like WINE said, your wines r gone with them, when they r gone. If they cant produce documents, report to cpib n CAD.
Alternative investment such as wines r relatively new to many. But the fact is, it is a gd tool and can make $$$. Just like stocks n shares, we make n we loss as well. So never think that by buying wines, it SURE GUARANTEE SUMPA make $$$ as promised by unprofessional representatives. In any industries, representatives just need to be professional. Like the insurance industry in the early years, ah mao ah kow also can sell insurance. Now it is more professional. However it takes time for this transformation. It took past 30 years for ppl to accept insurance and during this time, there are many bad sheeps as well.
I have read in previous forum that contributors are complaining hi turnover of wine brokers. So is insurance agents n property agents. We have to understand that these group of ppl are earning commission n not basic pay. It is a tough job. Once they are not able to substain the income, they are forced to look for a new job to earn $. Only if the company can provide better training, better structure n train up proficient professional individaul for the job, i am sure the turnover rate will not be hi.
In Europe, ppl are not skeptical to watch or wine investment, timeshare (which is a great success there but not in ASIA). But in SIN telling one person Domaine Romaniee Conti or Harry Winston toubillion, perpetual calendar, flyback chronograph mechanism, people will stare point blank at you….Society is evolving, lifestyle is changing but we are not there yet. Watches, Wines, Arts, Antiques, even JINLONGYU arowana all can make money as well when u do it the right way. NOT CAN OR NOT, is YOU KNOW HOW OR NOT.
For those who have bad experience, take appropriate action to rectify it. Learn from this and gain more knowledge n experience. I have loss badly in shares as well but now I have learned how to invest in shares and not PLAY shares. It is not the end. Bear in mind investment in any tools needs knoweldge, info and not always making money. It can loss as well.
Blessed
Thanks for the informative exchange.
Just want to give some background on my case. I have some friends who did wine investment with the same company and they have not experience any problems. Since I was new to wine investment the broker suggested this ‘buy-back’ scheme to me stating they have already found investors to take over the stock in a few years time and they were using this scheme to encourage newbies to try out. I felt that it was safe since it’s a reputable company and there is limited risk – unless the company files for bankruptcy.
After I “sold” the wine back to them and did not receive payment after 2 months of chasing, I have to protect myself by making a police report. As mine was the first case against the company, the police can only consider it as a civil case of breach of contract. Hence I took it to MAS and SMC. Thanks to Concern, I got hold of the CEO’s number and managed to get a promise of action from him within next week. I hope that I will finally see the returns that were promised and end this unpleasant saga. If not, I’ll take it further to CASE and the media to bring awareness to the wider population. Keep fingers crossed.
Never ever just listen to what’s been pitch to you by salepeople. You owe it to yourself to learn and educate yourself on any investment product before you put your money in it.
Most of these companies has high turnover because they are just leveraging on the salespeople personal relationship with their exisiting friends, relatives and clients from previous job.
At some point in time, once they have exhausted their pool of contacts, they cannot sell anymore, hence the high turnover.
A good investment product should be able to stand on it own merits. People come to you to buy because they have done their research and they know it’s feasible.
There is a difference between a used car salesman and a high end luxury car salesman. One has to hard sell his product while the other choose his clients.
well leoster i wish you the best of luck..
thank you akela and greed for the good info as well..
i feel that wine investment is still a good alternative compared to other investments.. what is most important i guess is to check the back ground and credibility of any wine investment firm before committing..
many investment firms were set up just for the sake of selling wines investment.. are they really good and knowledgeable in wines and do they really have many many contacts and network with the wine industry all over the world???? or they are just making use of this concept to make good money??
company like berry bros was set up not just for wine investment, they are reputable in all aspects in the wine industry, from selling wines to drink, wholesale of wines to f&b, storage facilities and so on.. this is one good example of a real reputable company with a wide network.. cos in the end, you need these wide networks to source for buyers for your wines..
while regarding the comment abt hard selling or choosing clients, i feel that all these are down to the sales tactics from the salesperson..and the bad ones will just focus on selling and never a long term service and relationship..
for any products, you will like it when the salesperson offer u excellent after sales service and will continue to serve u no matter good or bad times, not playing “catching” or “mia” game with you when you need him..
LEOSTER, going to CASE is useless. They only mediate between 2 parties. Civil suit by Letter of Demand will dingdong between their legal adviser n yours and end of the day the lawyers WIN BIG TIME(sounds familiar? Horizon…more powerful than PONZI bcos they r legal). Go to CPIB n CAD. Make it a public prosecution like Sunshine Empire. The CEO can promise you but eventually he may not deliver. We need action to clear up black sheeps and shabby companies to keep a sensible investment tool such as wine a CLEAN n TRANSPARENT investment instrument.
If I were to tell u a bt of wine can make 100% in 4yrs traded in e open mkt (no guarantee but I show you past track records for ref). On the other hand 1year gurantee you 10%, which one would u choose? For investment point of view, most ppl will choose the former bcos it gives u the higher return. But in actual fact, many ppl will select the latter bcos of the word GUARANTEE. THERE IS NO GUARANTEE IN INVESTMENT!!!A bt of Lafite 1982 cost less than S$100 launched in 1985 but today it is S$5500 selling in Cyrstal Wines. 5400% over 24years, 225% a year. But it was NEUTRALIZED with a time frame of 24years, and also being one of the best Lafite vintage in history, and after 24 years there r very few left in the open mkt and is scarce. All these factors contribute to the price of the wine. In 1986 Lafite 1982 was not selling at S$5000! That also explains why I do not expect to exit my wines within a year or 2 to reap high profit. The theory does not works that way. Hold the wines, keep reputable labels, gd vintages, OWC (original wood casing), keep in professional warehouses, and with time I can ASSURE you that your wines will appreciate in value. That is why WINE and me also believe in fine wine investment.
I like the way GREED and WINE comment on sales ppl. I am in biz hence I can apprehend what is good salesmanship, pushing sales with hard selling techniques and servicing clients and finding their needs and sell them what suits them. It boils down to the company vision n culture.
Wine investment being new in SIN will need time to grow and mature. 30years ago if you were to sell insurance, how many ppl will accept you? Not many. But with time, public awareness and education, maturity, ppl will accept the product. At the early stage there will be ppl taking advantage of the ignorance of public, ‘hit the metal while it is hot’ (there are many misrepresentation in insurance in the early days as well), and make quick money out of it. With time all these will change and only the reputed and clean companies will survive like WINE has mentioned BBR Berry Brothers in UK. However you must know that BBR was established in 1698. You are talking about CHING dynasty in China, King James II in England era. They also started small but grow bigger with time and established over these years. ALL GREAT MAN IS BORN BABY. They are nutured into GREAT beings. FYI I bought Torbreck RunRig at slightly above $200 in SIN while BBR is selling more than $300. You pay a higher price flying Singapore Airlines as compared to others. bcos it is PREMIUM. You also need to pay more storing your wines in HKG & in London than in SIN.
All these only state one fact that as a company, you need to have integrity in the biz. No misrepresentation as it will leads to disater. As an investor, you need to do your homework and have an understanding before any commitment.
Blessed.
Akela – CPIB only deals with corruption and I do not have evidence of that. CAD links back to police report which I’ve already done so I can only hope more people log a police case soon for them to start investigations. I’ve tried to search for other forums where this is discussed but couldn’t seem to find any. Please let me know if you guys have any other recommendations. Thanks much!
Leoster, drop me a mail. teamakela@gmail.com. Blessed.
well, leoster.. i think the most important for you now is to get your money back first.. so is to sell them back.. find a sales tactic or something to make them believe you are a potential big investor, and by helping you to sell your first lot, you will buy many more wines from them… give them guarantee blabla, make it urgent blabla, once get money then follow them, play mia game, give excuse, blabla…
i mean now i can only think of this recommendation to you… and your sales skills and negotiation techniques must be exceptional.. try use some art of war by sun tze here haha…
wish you the best of luck..
The company offered to change my wine broker. Should I take up the offer? I am concerned that this one may just be like the others. The broker breached my sales contract and told a couple of lies along the way, ie he didn’t even put my wines up for sale. I am working on how to bring this up to the management. Based on all my records and correspondence, I can discredit this chap thoroughly. How can I use this to my advantage?
well bmx,
now do you choose to believe your broker or do you choose to believe the company?
is the company just pushing responsibility and blaming the broker for not selling your wine or is it the other way round?
do not forget that who has the most power… the company or the broker?? in the army, when there is a cock up anywhere, who is always being blame when its not really his fault?
so in the end, i think most importantly for you is set your priorities clear, is it you just wanna sell your wines now?
if it is, then it doesnt matter how many broker the company change for you.
since you got all the 05-07s wines, how is your portfolio doing for you now? i think 05 should be doing well, and 06 should still be ok, however, do take note that 07 wine will surely drop in prices very soon….view this article http://www.decanter.com/news/news.php?id=281129
so if you can i will suggest you to get rid of all ur wines now before its too late..
again, like my previous suggestion, act like you will invest more in order to sell off your wines, after ur wines is sold, play the mia game with them… till they give up.. then dun invest with just any other company… take ur time dun rush, do ur research slowly..
good luck to you..
Thanks Wine,
I can only hope the overall financial situation would improve after reading the article. Overall, the ’07 seems to be an early drinker 7-10yrs. My consolation is that inn 7-10yrs, stock will run dry and the prices will go up. The ’07 stock is about 30% less than most vintages as well. Hopefully the ratings would increase with bottling. How much do you expect the 07 to freefall by ? I’m keeping my ’06 as those have been bottled and will mature with time.
I think one of the biggest myth about investing in fine wine is that of diminishing supply.
On the surface, it sounds logical that an old vintage cannot be replicated and as it gets consumed over the passing of time, less of it remains thus prices will increase.
What they (the wine investment companies) have downplay is that the production of wines is ever increasing and also, grapevines don’t die of extinction. Every year till the end of time, wines will be produce from all over the world.
With advancement in vinticulture and wine making techniques, the disparity between a good wine and a bad wine is narrowing. Comsumers are spoilt for choices and frankly, with the exception of the few godly wine experts like Robert Parker, Jancis Robinson, James Halliday etc, how many wine drinkers can really distinguish a first growth from a non-rated wine blind?
The producers and merchants are simply hyping up the market with talk about exceptional vinatges every year. Honestly, if you follow and read wine reviews, have you seen them dealre any vintage as lousy? No, they will never do that because they need to sell those wines.
So, they will never be lousy wines, ever. They will be good, very good, very very good, excellent, very excellent, very very excellent, exceptional, super exceptional, etc etc.
bmx
i would really feel you are wrong to think that way…
2005 being one of the best vintage was released at a historic high price.. sadly follow by 2006 release at abt 10% lower than 2005 and 2007 abt 30% lower than 2005, take note that both 2006 and 2007 are just avg good vintage similar to the 2002 and 2004, and prices of 2006 and 2007 is about 100% – 200% more than the 2002 and 2004… these make all the rest of the older vintages look super cheap….
i agree that the stock in 2007 is lesser than most excellent vintage, but thats not a problem… its the demand and supply thing…
now with the 2008 first growths releasing at at least 50% lower than the 2005 and 2006, and looking that quality of the wine in 2008 is quite good and better than the 2007 and 2006, which consumer will want to buy a lower quality wine from 2007 or 2006 at twice the price??????????
now, wine merchants from all over the world are having a hard time selling their 2007 stocks, because no one is willing to buy them, they are just too expensive…..
so what will happen? the price of 2006 and 2007 will definitely drop…. i cant predict by how much, however i will be expecting at least by 20% or more….
with the 07 being so expensive, i can assure you the stocks will never run dry for the next 50-100 years….
even when the financial situation improve, i take the lafite as an example, you as a wine consumer or collector, you have a choice to buy the 2008 lafite, which is a better vintage compare to 2007 and 2006 at $3,500 a case, or the 2007 lafite at $5,550 a case or the 2006 at $7,100 a case… i think the answer is pretty obvious… you will buy the 2008….
only if the next 10 vintages become one of the worst vintages in history, then probably ur 2006 and 2007 will increase in value tremendously, however if the 2009 or 2010 or any near future vintage became comparable to one of the best vintages in bordeaux, they will surely be release at a high price similar to 2005 again… and collector will rush to buy them and again leaving ur 2006 and 2007 unwanted….
so the only way for ppl to buy the 2006 and 2007 is to drop the prices, so good luck to your 2006s and 2007s…
as you have finally got hold of ur broker and company, thats why im suggesting that if they can sell for you, sell immediately and never deal with them again…. research carefully before investing in wines again in future…
well again, the above is just my suggestion, the final decision still lies with you, i could be wrong, maybe your 2007 and 2006 will do better than 2005 or 2008, well “maybe”, so good luck to you…
anyway, i am keen to know what first growths u have and how much your purchase them for??? and how much did ur company value them at now?? cos if you got them at really good value, then probably got some chance….thank you…
you may wanna read this article
http://www.winespectator.com/Wine/Features/0,1197,4481,00.html
Thanks Wine and Greed,
I agree with both of your views and have been trying the salvage the situation for the past 5 months. The ’07 enprimeur is currently trading at >$100/bottle less than what I paid for. I guess I’ve been screwed pretty much. Currently re-negotiating a sale for the ’06 and ’07 but even sales not guranteed. I’m not dealing through my broker now as he doesn’t deserve a single cent from me. In fact I want him to return his previous commissions, as he hadn’t provided anything the past 5 months. I just have this feeling that the only way of ensuring they that sell my ’07s is to transfer the proceeds to a new ’08 + top-up $$.
Thanks for all the advise. Apologies for not being able to reveal the rogue at the moment.
bmx,
no no no no no , dun do that, they are just selling you more again, never top up $$$$$$$ for the 08s, it is impossible that you have to top up $$$ to buy the 08s when 08s is 20-50% cheaper than the 06s and 07s, dun buy anymore….
never think u have been screwed pretty much, what has happened has happened, what is important is that you have learn many new things now and dun make the same mistakes again…
like i said, the broker may not be providing a good service to you, think for yourself, who train him? do you really think that the company or another broker can do better than ur current broker? they may be worse or more skillful in selling you more wines….
well, i am curious to know how much you paid for your wines, as i am doing my own research which company is providing a better deal..
anyway, if u have paid the best value when you bought your 05s to 07s during en primuer then, your 05s should have gained at least 50%, if you have lafite 05 even better, it has gained at least 80%,
06s should have gained about 20%, 07s lost only abt 5-6%, 07s is currently trading at a low price of abt S$400 a bottle, it cant be just $100 a bottle, impossible,
well the above example are all taken in account that you buy at en primuer price, which is the lowest pre release price, and if all your wines are the first growths…..
so if you sell all your 05-07s now, you are still making profits, even just selling 05-06, you are still making profits, the most sell the 05s, and keep the 06s 07s like what you mentioned earlier,
the most you can keep the 06s 07s for your son’s wedding or what, drink them, you arent losing anything, but if you top up $$$$ and buy more…. then its not just good luck to you, u may need god to help you…
Blessed…
No worries Wine, I am on my toes now. I definitely want out but am concerned that they will rear-end me by not selling the wines, especially if I let loose that I intend to sell everything. I will try and get as much money out first. Unfortunately, only my 07s are 1st tranches, ’06 mixed 3rd/4th tranches and ’05 half portfolio n not 1st tranches, therefore no overall profit in view of the massive losses incurred by the 07s. I’m already in paper losses of at least $100-150 per bottle of 07 I own. Thanks for the insight, everyone. Sorry I can’t reveal much of my portfolio here as I’m sure the people involved read this forum too.
bmx
well good to hear that you are being more cautious now, well dun let them feel you want to sell everything, maybe step by step, sell one at a time, say got urgent matter u need cash or something lor, or like what i said before, give them the thought that you wanna buy more and wanna sell first to test the system first…
yah i understand that you cant reveal your portfolio here, how about just reveal any one wine, i just wanna see whether that company is selling at a good value or not…
anyway im also guessing that is the company u bought your wines from although cant confirm haha….
anyway good luck to you
http://investdrinks.org/other.htm
wine growth fund suspends redemption… anyone involved or invested with wine growth fund better check with your fund managers for more details…
bmx,
with so much talk about en primeur but the fact is at the point of release no one will be able to tell what is going to be for next year vintage or the ratings. Usually ppl will only take past records as a reference. Hence that is the risk to take like all investment. Eg in 2004 as compared to 2003, it is an average vintage, hence prices dropped. But come to 2005, excellent vintage price went up. 2006, snowball effect from 2005, price was pretty hi (bcos economy is gd as well) but price is lower than 2005. Come to 2007, another average vintage price is lower than 2006. But the whites n sauterners are good. Come to 2008, bcos of the economy crisis, Brodeaux is forced to lower price if not no biz. But now it is 2009, hence we can review and start speaking n analysing like an expert telling u ??? (would have known). But the fact is there is no ??? (would have known), if everyone would have known, there is no one buy AIG stocks at US$50 or buy Lehman Bros bonds. We are not phrophets.
Buying e primeur there is always a risk bcos the rating of the wines is uncertain. The higher the risk the higher the returns. In 2004, I bought Lafite 2003 en primeur at $700 a bt. I gained. Like everyone WOULD HAVE KNOWN by now, 2007 likely wont make $ not bcos it is poor vintage but affected by the global economy crisis and prices of 08 crashed. With the current economy, almost EVERYTHING price dropped, from shares, funds, watches, property, wines etc. End of last year, the 2005 prices crashed the most as compared to other vintages. Retail price dropped about 20% or more.
Also, it is a myth that we can buy wines at 1st traunch. If everyone is so resourceful to get 1st traunch prices, negociants n fellow distribution channels need not exist. In the biz world as long as u provide a service or a product, u r expected to make money out of it. By the time that u buy a bunch of choysum in the local wet market, it went thru few hands as well. This is how biz work. Be real.
I do agree with GREED that grapevines dont die easily n it can live up to 100 years old. But the fact is grape harvest is affected by weather. Grape harvest has been declining in Aust bcos of weather and despite of whatever advance technique u can come out with it is not going to change GOD. Bad weather means bad harvest, simple. Also the size of the vineyard cant expand as they like like Singapore which we can touch JB soon if we keep reclaiming land. Terroir is crucial. As a wine drinker, i do believe there is a difference in the quality of wine. Try a table wine like Jacob’s Creek Shiraz then try a Fox Creek Reserve Shiraz n then Penfolds Grange, and I am sure u will know which is the better one in general wine tasting terms. You dont need an expert to tell u an OMEGA is better than a Baby G. Wines are produced all over the world but they are not all a Petrus or a Lafite. If all wines have no difference it will be like the Chinese proverb Cow Feeding on Peony, Wasted.
Take WINE advise do not trade in yr 2007 for 2008. If they take in yr 2007, n the whole world knows that it doesnt make $ at this point of time, who will buy from them? And if that is the case why should they buy back from u? There is something amiss and likely u have to top up more $$$. Wine is a lifestyle product. To me it is either for profit or drink so If the qty is not huge, drink it if it doesnt make $. Or cut loss sell it n re invest into something else for investment or for wines buy the 2008 EP, bcos it is so low n in my humble opinion it is worth it.
Lastly, stay out from wine funds.
Blessed.
bmx,
with so much talk about en primeur but the fact is at the point of release no one will be able to tell what is going to be for next year vintage or the ratings. Usually ppl will only take past records as a reference. Hence that is the risk to take like all investment. Eg in 2004 as compared to 2003, it is an average vintage, hence prices dropped. But come to 2005, excellent vintage price went up. 2006, snowball effect from 2005, price was pretty hi (bcos economy is gd as well) but price is lower than 2005. Come to 2007, another average vintage price is lower than 2006. But the whites n sauterners are good. Come to 2008, bcos of the economy crisis, Brodeaux is forced to lower price if not no biz. But now it is 2009, hence we can review and start speaking n analysing like an expert telling u “would have known”. But the fact is there is no “would have known”, if everyone would have known, there is no one buy AIG stocks at US$50 or buy Lehman Bros bonds. We are not phrophets.
Buying e primeur there is always a risk bcos the rating of the wines is uncertain. The higher the risk the higher the returns. In 2004, I bought Lafite 2003 en primeur at $700 a bt. I gained. Like everyone WOULD HAVE KNOWN by now, 2007 likely wont make $ not bcos it is poor vintage but affected by the global economy crisis and prices of 08 crashed. With the current economy, almost EVERYTHING price dropped, from shares, funds, watches, property, wines etc. End of last year, the 2005 prices crashed the most as compared to other vintages. Retail price dropped about 20% or more.
Also, it is a myth that we can buy wines at 1st traunch. If everyone is so resourceful to get 1st traunch prices, negociants n fellow distribution channels need not exist. In the biz world as long as u provide a service or a product, u r expected to make money out of it. By the time that u buy a bunch of choysum in the local wet market, it went thru few hands as well. This is how biz work. Be real.
I do agree with GREED that grapevines dont die easily n it can live up to 100 years old. But the fact is grape harvest is affected by weather. Grape harvest has been declining in Aust bcos of weather and despite of whatever advance technique u can come out with it is not going to change GOD. Bad weather means bad harvest, simple. Also the size of the vineyard cant expand as they like like Singapore which we can touch JB soon if we keep reclaiming land. Terroir is crucial. As a wine drinker, i do believe there is a difference in the quality of wine. Try a table wine like Jacob’s Creek Shiraz then try a Fox Creek Reserve Shiraz n then Penfolds Grange, and I am sure u will know which is the better one in general wine tasting terms. You dont need an expert to tell u an OMEGA is better than a Baby G. Wines are produced all over the world but they are not all a Petrus or a Lafite. If all wines have no difference it will be like the Chinese proverb Cow Feeding on Peony, Wasted.
Take WINE advise do not trade in yr 2007 for 2008. If they take in yr 2007, n the whole world knows that it doesnt make $ at this point of time, who will buy from them? And if that is the case why should they buy back from u? There is something amiss and likely u have to top up more $$$. Wine is a lifestyle product. To me it is either for profit or drink so If the qty is not huge, drink it if it doesnt make $. Or cut loss sell it n re invest into something else for investment or for wines buy the 2008 EP, bcos it is so low n in my humble opinion it is worth it.
Lastly, stay out from wine funds.
Blessed.
well said bmx,
however, in my opinion, i dont think buying 2008 EP is worth it. with the current economy, if you buy the 08 EP now, 3 years later when its being bottled, the price may be just the same, or probably increase just a bit, so its pointless to give free loans to the wine companies for this 3 years now, if you really must buy, wait at least 2 years later and see hows the 08 wines doing, is the regrading better as well, and see hows the economy doing as well….
but still in my opinion, i would advise never buy en primeur for any average vintage, the risk is higher and you are just speculating on what will happen in the future… for en primeurs, only buy those from exceptional vintage like 2000, or 2005… as for average vintage, i would advise you to buy only probably a few years before it fully mature, so more ppl will start drinking them and supply will drop faster…
and again en primeur campaign is higher risk than buying bottled wines, a barrel could be shared between 5 to even 10 investors, if the wine merchant close down, which many have closed down and now even worse, especially those not really established and reputable ones, it will be hard for you to claim back anything….so most important is to deal only with reputable and established companies…
well like bmx said, we are no gods and no body can predict the future, even in the best economy, if theres a major disaster or terrorist attack and world war 3, everything will be back to zero.. so just be prepared for the worst lah, even putting money in the bank is a risk, so accept the risk and move on…
and before buying any wines, check and research, there is winesearcher.com for you, dont pay $1000 for a bottle of wine if you can get $1000 or even less in retail price…
lastly, stay out from wine funds…
WINE, indeed if the intention is to keep 08 vintage as investment, it may not be wise as it is only an average vintage. My approach is not for profit alone but also for drinking pleasure. My intend is to buy some and drink at such low price. hardly u can drink a bt of Mouton for 100+euro.
Wine investment only come into prominence during 2005, when it was so called the “perfect Alot of vultures started circling after 2005, which also coincides with alot of wine investment companies sprouting out.
Wine investment no doubt works, but only on awesome vintages like 82,2005 as such. other than that, mediocre vintages, its only meant for speculative purposes if any. and if wine is such an illiquid commodity, how does 1 speculate?
and the common theory of ” prices of wine does not follow world market trends’ is so highly misleading.
tons of people are trying to sell their prized items, including wine but unable to find solid bidders until they dropped their prize. how do i know? becos i’m working for 1.
Wine investment only come into prominence during 2005, when it was so called the “perfect vintage, the year when God was French.’
Alot of vultures started circling after 2005, which also coincides with alot of wine investment companies sprouting out.
Wine investment no doubt works, but only on awesome vintages like 82,2005 as such. other than that, mediocre vintages, its only meant for speculative purposes if any. and if wine is such an illiquid commodity, how does 1 speculate?
and the common theory of ” prices of wine does not follow world market trends’ is so highly misleading.
tons of people are trying to sell their prized items, including wine but unable to find solid bidders until they dropped their prize. how do i know? becos i’m working for 1.
(edited : missing sentence.)
akela,
sorry the previous post is supposedly written well said akela haha
yah i agree, i would love to get the 08 to drink as well… though its 100+ euros on release, once it reach the merchant will be different price already … average price for 08 lafite is already about S$330 per bottle…
split,
wine investment dun come into promience during 2005, it started many many many many many years back… probabaly you first learn abt it in 2005.. and its true that more wine investment companies are sprouting out.. so investors beware and better research which is the more established and reputable ones..
as for vintages, its extremely important that it must be at least outstanding to extraordinary, anything just average and below will be more risky and not worth investing in unless all leading critics in the world rated it perfect 99 or 100 points..
prices of wines depends on the market in a way.. more or less depend on the rich and millionaires, more millionaires, wine prices rise, recession, less millionaires, ppl rushing to sell the wines, prices drop.. this is in fact a good time for serious collectors to bid for the best wines at a lower price..
wine is not really illiquid, selling the wines in auctions is pretty easy, it is only hard to find the best time to sell them, selling at the wrong time at the wrong place will lose out and have to pay for the consignment fees to the auctions houses also…
so thats why the merchant or broker or the company you invested with is most important, they have to have lots of contacts to help you sell your wines…. which most companies here dont, they are only good at selling wines to investors, and not reselling to collectors or consumers.
hmm you are working for 1, …. and the way you say it , it seems highly possible ur company belongs to the fraud side, probably you can write to jim in investdrinks.org to recommend him to list your company in his site…
and why are u still working there??? to suck more ppls money???
Concern and Leoster any updates on ur case against UAG? My self got into the same problem recently awaiting for a check that never arrives from the same company for a “buy-Back” Scheme….
Hi George,Concern and Leoster,
I’m please to find this website, I’m facing the same problem too.
What should I do? Thanks
TM
Tm, i suggest you email concern at the email indicated above so as we have ur contact details and we form a group to act more efficiently agains that company. Makes sense?
George and TM, please file a police report as well. Some of us have already done so. I’m contactable at leoster7@gmail.com
good luck guys, hopefully we will see the first wine fraud company in singapore being charged, and that will be perfect warning to everyone else..
Like leoster had mentioned everyone who is affected by e UAG scam pls make a police report, lodge a report with CASE or small claims whichever is more convenient for u. The deadlines set by e CEO shd not b trusted as he had not been able to fulfill them. Attempts to contact dominic (CEO) has been unsuccessful. Calling e co is useless as well coz e customer svc would say there is no 1 ava to help u. I know most if not all of u have been posted a letter stating a deadline but as leoster and myself have personally witnessed, those r juz words and it doesn’t mean anything to dominic. He is juz buying time. As George had suggested, I will compile a list of those affected and send them among ourselves. For those who still have some hopesand wish to contact dominic, this is his no 97907094. Gd luck to all of us but pls make those police reports. I have send our stories to ST already but they have not replied. I will email again seeking a response. For those who wish to sue dominic, dun think or wait anymore juz do it
Hi. I have also invested with UAG on the “buy-back” scheme. They have said that they would be returning my investments in Apr, but I have heard nothing. I’m very worried and would appreciate any advise on the matter. My email is andy_annie@hotmail.com.
hi andy&annie,
i think it will be good for you to contact concern and leoster as i believed they have already taken some actions against uag and they are seeking for more people to make it more effective….
help them out and help yourself and help warn anyone else… good luck to both of you…
as i browse through all the comments again, i have compiled a small summary of good and bad companies mentioned:
Good : None
Bad :
1.UAG
2.Australian wine index
3.Unnamed company dealing with bordeaux en primeur.
anyone wishes to add on more to the bad list or like to recommend some to the good list??
hope this helps out anyone thinking of investing in wine and have been contacted by the above companies..
good luck
I do not know how would one classified a good or bad company. It depends on which angle are u looking at the matter.
However the current UAG saga is definitely bad. All affected clients must take strong action against the company who does not deliver esp when it come to the CEO (boss) of the company not responding to the clients and honoring any agreement. By cleaning up black sheep companies will only do good to business sector jus like clearing off Sunshine Empire.
On the contary I had experience with UAG that I bought Grange at $390 which is an excellent price. For that particular incident I cant say that it is a bad company bcos as a client, they met my needs. But when come to this buyback thingy, it flop big time, bcos investment has no guarantee.
AWI is the longest established fine wine investment company in SIN and only sell Aus wines. Like all new ventures or biz concept that is new to consumers, AWI had the adv to sell to many who doesnt know much about wines. Even bubble tea can make good money in the pioneer days. Hence the testimony that I heard was hi selling price and hard selling techniques. Bcos at that time, there is no other peers in the industry. But with new peers coming into the biz, people is turning away from them. I have an aquaintance who holds 4000bts with AWI, all bought at hi price.
“As i browse through all the comments again, i have compiled a small summary” – that ppl do not have info or understanding before investing. Hence they are “burnt”. It applies to all investment tools as well as consumer service (NEWTON CIRCLE giant prawn) or products (Sim Lim Square electronics). All will end up a victim but at diff level of damage.
In terms of value French wines will definietly have better edge than Aus. There are exceptional as well such as Grange, Hill of Grace and some cult labels. Latest Grange 2004 release on 1st May in Penfolds was at A$590 a bt. This price beats Chateau Lafite 2008 en primeur in France. If only u know what ur buying, whether it is for drinking or for collection, it will only be beneficial and adv to you. Robert Parker has just released his ratings and Lafite is at 98-100 pointers and immediately, price of the Lafite en primeur increased. Who says EP cant make money.
For yr reading pleasure i have enclosed a link. You do not need much wisdom but jus common sense to figure what kind of investment are they – http://www.profitablecapital.com/.
Same like foe wine funds, stay away.
Be blessed.
Hi all,
I happened to chance upon this forum and I’ll like to share my experiences with UAG
Had bought a $10k wine portfolio from them in 2007 and encountered the same shit from them in
1. Hard selling sales tactic
2. UAG can’t support the selling “prices” published in their wine company.
3. Un-contactable wine broker.
4. Liquidating the wine portfolio takes ages. For me, it took 6 months to sell the wine back to the UAG at a 5% loss. I considered myself lucky that I’m able to get my money back.
During the course of “selling” my portfolio, I’ve seek several lawyers’ opinion on a civil (I sue UAG myself) or statutory (Government sue UAG) lawsuit against UAG.
The points highlighted by the lawyers are
1. UAG is nothing more than a 7-11 store selling wines to consumer.
2. UAG is not liable for any financial losses (stated in the contract) on any wine portfolio. Any wine buy-back is based entirely on “good-will”
3. No government body (eg MAS) will give a damn about wine investment as wine investment is not regulated. I personally complained to CPIB & my Member of Parliament. The feedback I got was “I walked in with my eyes opened”.
The only choices I have that time are
1. Make this issue as big as possible (like the AWARE case) and let Singapore knows about it, highlighting the fact that MAS is “closing an eye” on this issue. This “should” prompt some actions from the authorities.
2. File a collective lawsuit against UAG. This should generate enough spotlights on UAG and will be extremely harmful to UAG’s reputation. Note: The press should know about this collective lawsuit as well.
I’d communicated my options to UAG at that time and I think they got a bit afraid and hence my money is returned.
Nonetheless, I’ll be happy to help any bros on dealing with UAG collectively.
Please contact me at +65 97956999 (Tony) if you need more views/opinions.
PS: I’m not a lawyer. I’m just an ordinary middle-class working guy who is extremely unhappy with UAG.
There was a land banking company UK PRIME LAND, which is scam company n cheated many investors and was folded last year. Many people including staff reported to the police. My friend is one of the victim. Nothing was reported in the news. However the gd thing is the boss of the company was caught early this year.
Tony seems like another so-call investor who invested in wines in 2007 and sell back probably in 2008 and expected to make profit from that portfolio. Loss a 5% and consider it “lucky to get the $ back”. Wonder what wines did u buy & in a short period of few mths you can expect to make profit? Kindly recommend. Indeed ur lucky to suffer a mere 5% loss unless ur buying gd labels n vintage like WINE always mentioned. Approach any wine “7-11″ like Grand Vin, Cornerstone or Crystal Wines and check if prices of wines can appreciate in such short duration. If a physical product could not trade at a profit there will be no government body or even lawyer can act for you in that instance. It is right to say that “you walk with open eyes”. People like WINE will not be in this circumstance bcos he knows what is he buying. This is a reality that u may not agree but of course u reserved yr rights to be unhappy with the poor service that the company rendered.
However in the current UAG saga, it is not keeping wines for future trading sales but a structured time frame returns. And when it is due, it should be repaid. Since not paid, it is a breach of agreement and clients had the rights to take action against UAG. It stand a much better ground than Tony’s case.
well i dunno if i am right here,
for tony’s case, i think the company which is uag have over promised and under delivered on the wines they sold to him..
which he mentioned, 2. UAG can’t support the selling “prices” published in their wine company.
means the company acutally stated in their report that his wines have make profits in a short period, and yet they cant sell his wines at the “prices stated in the valuation report”, so the so called profits is just on paper…..
probably in the report was stated at 10% or even 20% profits, so when he wanna sell his wines, company headache….
and even though he may be “lucky” to get back his money, i feel that he must have gone through quite a lot of efforts in getting back the money..so his efforts paid off, thus other investors who is having problems now dun give up, and fight all the way, since tony has offered his help to you, dun be shy, call him and ask for help lor… as in how long to get back the money, i would have to say this, wine is a physical asset, its not a paper, not stocks, so you cant expect to sell your wines overnight, the process will take time, even selling through auctions also take months, they have to check provenance, come out with estimates, and have you agree on any fees, shipped over to their designated warehouse, wait for auction, blablabla… so it takes time to sell…
and of cos, the bad thing that i feel is these companies never educate the investors, they will only give fake promises and guarantees by mouth and “paper profits”…only wanna hard sell to investors to buy more wines in order to earn more commission, no after sales service, so when it comes to physical trading and selling of wines, they had problems, cos they got no contacts to sell, unless they can fake another investor to take over the portfolio…..
anyway, i still thanks tony for coming out and share his experience, and hope that the others involved will be able to get some help and get back some money, even at losses, rather than keeping your paper showing a 20% profits… good luck..
yah robert parker releases is interesting, wonder what will happen to his high scoring wines, and again his opinions differ from many other critics haha, even though lafite 08 value jumped overnight, remember that if next year or 2011 parker final rating became lesser than 98-100, the prices may still drop , so if you think you are up to take that risk, and have contacts with a reliable merchant that wont close down in this economic crisis, go ahead and buy some en primeurs, maybe 2 years later i cant find them anywhere else cos parker final ratings is 100, maybe i buy from you haha..
Wow, WINE savvy move. 2yrs later will have to sell u at market price with friendship discount if not ppl will say im ponzi scheme. Sell to u, I also scared.
When the expert speaks, u see the diff. WINE gave us a proper flow of the wine distribution channel operation.
I have checked with my source and found a common aquaintance that TONY & I have that is the broker that sell him the wine is the also the one who sold me Penfolds Grange at $390. The broker is a British gentleman and not the kind of hard selling salesman that TONY projected him. He has since returned to England and studying in Bath Uni. We still MSN ea other as friend. What kind of profit or exit do u expect if ur holding a new wine like Schubert Estate Gooseyard Block Shiraz 2005? It is a true case that ur “lucky” when only suffer 5% loss in this physical bottles trading n not the “buyback plan”.
I fully understand the frustration that current clients of UAG are facing n it does not help when ppl is adding fuel to the fire when the scenario is not the same and still give incorrect info to ‘stir’ matter to a new height. Pharisees are the least ppl needed in this situation.
I strongly suggest that ppl involved in this delay payout incident to report to authority and not thru legal means. When more ppl reported and it reaches a threshold, the authority will take action. Was told that UAG CEO posted in his FACEBK about his recent vacation break in Genting, Thailand, China, having gd fun while the staff, brokers of UAG and clients r like ants in hot pan.
Dear Wine Lovers,
I have created a website for you to learn and understand more about wine investment, you will also be able to receive the latest updates on news and articles.
If you are interested in Wine Investment, please visit http://WineInvestment.sg
Thank you so much. Cheers
Jack
I have the same problem with UAG’s mandatory buy back scheme, already emailed my details to Concern. My situation is that the letter states payment will be made in 60 (!!!) working days and they have not acknowledged receipt of the letter, which means the clock has not even started ticking yet. After reading the comments here, I’m not even sure the 60 days will be honoured.
After calling their hotline, the lady insisted that she already acknowledged receipt (not true) and that my expected payment date is 30 June. I’ve just asked her to state that in writing, let’s see what happens…
Dear Darren,
I feel so sorry to hear about your situation, as well as many others involved. I do wish that all of you will be able to settle the issue soon.
Like akela mentioned, many of you end up in this situation mainly because of the lack of knowledge in wine investments. This is the reason why I created this website, WineInvestment.sg to help everyone understand the truth and risks involved in wine investment. Even though it is low risk and less volatile, it is still like all other investments, there is a risk and nothing is Guaranteed.
Please do take your time, visit my website, subscribe to our newsletter so that you can receive all the latest news and articles straight to your email inbox. Thank you so much. Cheers.
Jack
Hi all
I’ve received a sms from one of the bros here and I had shared with him my experiences with UAG. I also shared with him on what are the options available now. As the company I work in offer free legal advice (not legal actions), I am happy to utilize this facility to any bro or group who want to purse legal actions. Personally, I do not know the legal aspect of the wine buy back scheme. Thus I can’t comment much. (What I have with UAG previously is the lousy wine portfolio).
Do let me know if you need some legal advice.
Cheers Tony.
+65 97956999
Hey Concern and Leoster,
Have not been able to contact UAG personnel.
UAG have yet to make any public announcement
in response to this issue.
Any collective action being taken yet?
Pls contact me if there is any grouping up
to take legal action.
I guess individual may have to make police report.
Contact me 93666795, email kwshah2000@yahoo.co.jp
Hi all, now that this is published in ST, it’s getting more attention from investors. If you’ll like to group together to decide what actions to take, please email me at Leoster7@gmail.com. It’ll be helpful to state when was your scheme’s maturity date, when was the “promised” payout, what actions you have taken so far for easier tracking.
paint it yourself and sell the painting
BUG says: If you buy the painting from me today, I will buy it back 12 months(excluding 30 dyas waiting time) and give u 12% interest.
Mr Friend: its been a year, have u seen the picture you owned for the pass 12 months?
Mr A: nope, only seen and hold the recipe, its still in my drawer, the peice of paper i mean. but they offer me to give me more interest next year
TO BE CON’T
Dominic Sim “UAG CEO” cars
1. Mercedes SLK 200
2. BMW 7 Series
3. Maserati Grand Tour
4. Maserati Quattroporte
5. Bentley Continental GT
6. Audi R8
Right now his brothers and UAG ex-brokers set up another wine investment company called D’Venture Wines Pte Ltd located at Far Eastern Bank Building. “Change soup don’t change herbs”.
I found an article on UAG related investment in July 2007. http://www.voy.com/161450/2601.html
Is’ about a Victims of Aztex Int’l. Aztex Int’l is in wine business also. It state that
1. UAG and Aztex share the same office space and address.
2. Aztex staff is advising me to move the investment over to Universal Asset Group (UAG) as Aztex will close VERY SOON.
If D’Venture is set up by UAG CEO’s brother, I am wondering if they are trying to set up one company to plug the hole for the previous company.
I will like to know basically:
1. Does the wine really exist?
2. The brokers said that UAG have to buyback the wine as they have agreement with the other party to sell them the wine. I want to see the agreement they have with the other party.
If the above 2 items are not true, I think maybe it should be a criminal case and CAD or CPIB have to take action. But now we don’t know the truth. Maybe we should just report to CAD or CPIB and let them find out the truth.
The Straits Times article today said that CAD is currently investigating into the complaints.
I also have wine investments under their mandatory buy-back scheme. However mine is only due in August.
Please update me at thewayonlyway@yahoo.com.sg on any progress of this issue.
Thanks.
anyone who invested in the UAG buyback scheme actually saw their own wines, supposedly in the storage facility? pls reply to janellelaufl@gmail.com
Hi Leoster
Heard that you had make a CAD report. May I know the case num? Maybe we just have to go to the police station or CAD to add on to the Case num. As more people add on to the case, CAD will take even more aggressive action.
Contact Insp. Ho (Ban Hsiung HO [HO_Ban_Hsiung@spf.gov.sg]). A number of investors have already contacted him.
Hi all,
I’ve received a couple of calls from a number of people.
I had since creates a yahoo group to facilitate discussion and update on the progress.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sour_UAG_investment
I’ve sent invite to the people who had contacted me. (plus contacts in this thread.)
This might be good for collaboration
Cheers
Tony
Thanks Tony. The current group has a “closed group” in FB – this is by invitation only.
Received a call from D’Venture Wines again. They are trying to sell me more wine. Confirm all of them from Universal Assets Group. Same management, same brokers, same system! Sick of it! now waiting to get back my money from UAG……
Does anybody has the same broker as mine? His name is Anson Goh, his photos still at the UAG website, congratulating those prosperity draw winners.
Just learnt today that he resigned last month. Called him several times but no one pick up.
What professionalism!
What’s the contact number for D’Venture Wines?
Hi leoster,
Sorry, I don’t quite understand this
“The current group has a “closed group” in FB – this is by invitation only.”
Is this a good thing or bad thing?
Cheers
Tony
Tony, we wish to have private discussions since everyone can read whatever is available online. Up to each individual to decide which path/group they wish to take and whether it’s good or bad. Thanks for extending your help.
U sure Andson resigned last month? He was on MC bcos of a medical condition but was still helping me over some matters in UAG last week. Wonder why ppl always gave false info on this forum n fanning this saga to new height.
What professionalism!
Hi everyone,
I am also an investor in UAG’s mandatory buy-back scheme. I have 2 portfolios under them, which will mature in June and August this year respectively.
I have yet to contact the company regarding the selling off of the portfolio issue. However, from what I read, I think it would be tough for me to liquidate my portfolio too.
Therefore, if everyone is grouping together to claim against UAG, I would like to join you guys.
I can be contacted at kurayamisekai@yahoo.co.jp
Thanks~
Hi b,
D’Venture Wines Pte Ltd
156 Cecil Street #11-01, Far Eastern Bank Building,S(069544)
Tel: +65 6222 1639
My uncle also received a call from them. I think they are calling all the UAG client invest into this new wine company… and again same people same management…. haiz…!
Hi alela,
I called the UAG receptionist yesterday after many failed attempted to contact him. The lady again confirmed this morning that Anson Goh has resigned. You can call UAG 68804000 to check.
Guys,
Perhaps you can try your luck. If you can’t find your ex-UAG brokers, try to give D’Venture Wines a call..the one you are looking for might be answering the phone.. nobody know…
Posting from the yahoo grp created by Tony ”
I had just spoken with the CAD investigating officer and had got to know that there will be a meeting with him and other investors tomorrow 14th May at the Cantonment complex at 4pm. The venue for the dialogue at block D 5th floor” Guess we’ll see each other there to see what’s going on
If anyone has any information on the outcome of the discussion, mind sharing it here with other UAG investors? As I believe that some investors might not be able to make it for the meeting.
Thanks leoster
I’ve set the yahoo group to restricted.
Hi all ,
This forum is now set as restricted so that I can safeguard the interest of the people involved.
Please give me a call (+65 97956999) or drop me an email (uag_investor@yahoo.com.sg) with regards to your situation.
I’ll approve your access to this forum after review.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sour_UAG_investment
Cheers
Tony
sorry, i mean the yahoo group is set as restricted.
Cheers
Tony
Tony, your group is still open to the public. I can read every post.
k,
Thanks for highlighting that.
I’ve changed that already
Cheers
Tony
Wow, this is all very scary!
I was thinking of investing in wine myself, it looked like a good investment.
What about the other players? Premium Liquid Assets and Australian wine Index? Does anyone have good/bad experience with them?
Cheers!
Hi Potential_Wine_Investor,
I think in the meantime, try to stay off such alternative investment products until the outcome is more obvious.
That’s just my own opinion though..
Best regards,
Desmond.
I have spoken to the investigating officer and voiced out my concern to him.
If the company is trying to pay out the money to early batches of investors now and run out of capital, the worst case scenario would be that the company declares bankrupt and the later batches of investors would most probably not get anything back in return….
Hi desmond,
Is the case about the buy-back scheme only or isit for all investor UAG tricked into buying and promising to sell it off for them?
And how early is the earlier batches?
I do have to say that these people who tricked us will not be punished if they just declared bankrupt… such cases has happened again and again…
Greetings Rion,
I believe it is more inclined towards investors who purchased the buy-back scheme only. My friend who bought the physical bottles with UAG seems fine because his physical bottles are in the storage cellar. He has called the cellar to confirm this.
To me, i think the earlier batches are those who are currently trying to seek payment from UAG. For me and a few other investors, I guess we belong to the later batches as our portfolios mature between June and August this year. Some might be longer though, but I have no news of that yet as the latest maturity date that I have heard of is in August this year.
Regards,
Desmond.
Hi all,
I really think we should report to police or media separately informing them regarding this case. Also, maybe we should go to speaker’s corner sometime next week? Anybody has any idea how to go about this?
Regards,
Nick
Hi Nick,
NParks govern Speaker’s Corner. You may wish to register the gathering to voice your concerns.
http://www.nparks.gov.sg/cms/index.php?option=com_chronocontact&chronoformname=honglim_park_speakers_corner
You’d probably want to call some reporters to provide news coverage as well. Perhaps Straits Times can follow up on their report. The New Paper and Zao/Wan Bao are also widely read.
now that this matter has finally blown up, i believe the buyback scheme has been proven to be just a ponzi scheme where they use new investors money to pay old investors… when they cant find enough new investors to invest, old investors will not get back their money..
now that the whole singapore knows abt this, i doubt there will ever be anymore new investors coming in, which means all of you affected will not get back any single cents… and this company is going to close down very soon…
wonder if the authorities can help, however still hope that all investors under this company can at least get back a bit of their money, 80%, 60%, 40% back , at least better then 0% right?
anyway, while compiling the list of good and bad companies, this is the latest i have:
good:
pla
equity
bad:
uag(no secret anymore)
awi
awm
and new companies setting up which is related to the above like
vino en primeur
d venture wines….anymore???
hmmm, from this list, it seems like the ‘goods’ are in french wines while the ‘bad’ are in aussie wines…..
anyone care to commment and share your experiences with any of the companies listed above??
are the ‘goods’ really good and are the ‘bads’ really bad???????????
personally, i have no contacts and experiences with any of them, so dunno if this list will help those who is thinking of investing now…
ooohhhh and further googling found 2 more new companies..
premieur wine investments
wine-i
interesting that new companies are setting up in this tough times… any investors already invested???
WINE, gd to see u back. Have been reading alot of sensational n stir up news in this forum lately. Apart from investment news, we have cars news as well. Wonder how ppl keep track with UAG CEO car list. Perhaps next round we can have a list of his girlfriends data as well. Very resourceful, maybe from some intelligence dept.
WINE I is not new. Our ‘helpful’ Wine Expert JACK has been an advisor with WINE I & Rubicon. His website is so “timely’ set up to advise confused investors on more info. Very well planned n prepared in this sensitive time.
Well, I kind of agree with u but not all in labeling companies into GOOD or BAD and only French wines are the best while Aussie wines are all bad. This statement is not justified. Based on what ground or criteria do we have before we classified them? In earlier days, I have got good labels n price from UAG. The broker that i know, Mark Baillie is a fine guy and not what peolple have mislead others that all brokers are ‘bad people’. But seems like uag has ‘turned’ bad in this current saga. I also have people complaining about their encounters with PLA. Perhaps it is the direction n vision of that CEO that leads to this situation. I do not have too much insight info bcos I m not an ISD agent like some of those who contributed in this forum. BBR also offers wine investment and en primeur so are they good or bad?
Wine business is new and has lots of potential and will continue to boom in the market. With one failed company, do u think the industry will cease? Will Cornerstone, Crystal Wines stop selling wines & en primeur and change to sell gems n stones & crystals instead? Of course not. My opinion in this saga is not about wine investment. It is about people’s GREED n IGNORANCE. People invested into so call buyback is bcos of the gain. They ‘believed’ in such scheme also bcos of their ignorance and lack of knowledge in wines. Another eg to illustrate is how people is STUPID (not silly) enough to believe Sunshine Empire will give u >100% returns or UK PRIME LAND can give u 300% returns in
Less than n a year? Wine and its investment are relatively new in Spore. There will be companies who take adv and run business in an undesirable manner. So the only right way is for CONSUMERS to be wise instead of labeling them good n bad. Some good may be bad eventually or in disguise while some bad may learn and turn good. It will take time for a new business to settle in and matures. With time, there will be a BBR in local context.
What I hope to see is to have an amicable solution between UAG and its investors. Even with any delay but as long as investors can get their capital or wines back that is the most important rather than the company vanish and all become a helpless victim.
Regards
So is there anyway current UAG physical wine holder be able to sell their wine through any other sources?
I called up UAG wine storage, 12deg, the fella said that investor will not be able to access their wine without their UAG broker..
But amidst the saga, dun think any broker of UAG dare show face outside without risking being whalloped…
Dear all,
Just beware there is a wolf in SHEEP skin lurking around giving “fantastic advice” on wine investment and wonderful comparison of other investments instrument.
All his advices sound so familiar to me after reading all his postings here. Initially, I have no intention to blow his cover… But I cannot believe he starts to name Ex UAG brokers here to “sell” his point.
Please give Ex UAG brokers a break! They left the company for a reason you know better as YOU ARE UAG Ex AGM!!
I don’t know what is his agenda here giving advices and pretend to be an investor with UAG.
For God sake! He had made hundreds of thousand of dollars from UAG “Buy Back Schemes” last year, and now he is pretending to be a “good” advisor?!?
Why? Feeling guilty? Shameless scumbag!!
Wine – have you experience it yourself? why do you give a list of good and bad if you have not had any experiences?
i just find it a little unfair to any companies when you’ve no real experiences. I understand that UAG got into such bad situation where i count myself lucky that i did not fell into when was approached. like you mentioned i thought pla or equity will be better but who knows … TOLD TO WAIT … doesn’t it sound familiar?
well, i’m not complaining, but not complementing either.
I do agree with akela, we should not label good or bad companies and good or bad french or aussie wines. but i’m really interested, since able to find the list of cars, how about the girlfriends data?? so nice to know, right.
becareful
well, who is this person????
hmmm
its not my personal experiences, its just experiences from other people..
well guess i am wrong in putting out this so called list, well sorry if it has caused any inconvenience, wasnt meant as a harm but actually wanted to assist ppl to be more cautious about any companies…
so from what questionmark mentioned, seems like you invested with pla or equity and met into some problems as well????
so i guess just forget that so called list….. now im getting confused about the whole situation, probably just dun invest in anything is the best option…
Hi, I’m also one of the victims of the UAG saga. I’ve contacted Insp Ho through email and also emailed Leoster. Pls keep me posted on the actions you guys gonna take. Thanks.
hmm, i would say this is just another investment ‘sadness’, everyone has to understand investment involves RISK, is how high the risk u willing to take, of cos the better return the higher the risk.
just take the DBS things, what happen? a lot of people lost every cents they put in and what do they get in return? just a piece of signed paper, that woman who lost 200k, won’t she felt worst, if she had put in wine investment, at least she will have wines on hand and can do what she like to the wines, than having just a few paper.
is not about not to invest or not, is about know where you stand on your own $$ and not to invest your ‘coffin $$’ in. buying lottery is also investment, is the same theory.
Wine:
I’m not here to name names. Everyone has the freedom of speech. (I had given a very strong “hint” on who this person is.)
The reason I want to share is I am totally disgusted by his contributions in here giving “sound” advices on wine investment.
I am very sure he is/was from UAG cos’ he used the same sales pitch (all his investments and comparisons) on me… And now pretend to be an investor. Ask him to proof his investment portfolio with whichever company he deal with.
I just don’t understand how “low” one can go…
I just want to say that there is nothing wrong with Wine investment. BUT please do your homework!!
Hi Becareful,
I’ve totally agreed on what you’ve shared. So can I assume U r also an EX UAG broker? Well, I would like to voice my opinion in term of a 3rd party view, I felt that since such issues had already blown it up, we shouldn’t blame & pointing at any one. But to learn from such experiences and bring it along to share with others. I also agreed with akela on pple’s GREED n IGNORANCE esp. on Wine Investment. If I am a Victim, I’m sure to throw my $ for the investment. Nevertheless, I strongly urge that investors would wait for Insp Ho as mentioned for his report on UAG matter and not ringing up your brokers “haunting” them day & night for you $. Most importantly, they are not the ones to PAY you back. Do put yourself in their shoes. They are human too. Hmm..hopefully I do not offend anyone in this forum..but just to voice out how I felt on this matter. Lastly, I am also curious on the EX UAG AGM that Becareful mentioned…Who’s it. Haha.
EX UAG AGM?? hmmm what is AGM???
as i browse through all the posts again, it seems like there is only one person who invested with uag and given a few positive feedbacks… is he the one???? come on hint more haha…his nick here start with letter ‘hmmm”?????
yah.. think all the brokers should start changing their phone numbers… think they are being phone blast everyday like what happen to the bankers when lehman bros went down….
lastly, even if one has done his best homework, but got trick by the best conman into a so called “best investment” with the “Best company”, he will still lose his money…. so how?????? probably lottery is better eh….
by the way, i am currently learning to buy wines from auctions houses, the prices seem so much cheaper than getting them from wine companies in singapore…
anyone got experience with buying from auctions?? care to share and teach me haha…
but seriously speaking, from becareful’s posts, i am getting a bit careful now, whether everyone here who posted are actually brokers????? positive one from uag brokers and negative one from other companies??????? cos its suddenly seems so crowded here with so many different ppl around…. all brokers???
ok no one will admit anyway haha..
Buying wine is easy, its the selling of the wine that determines if the investment actually yield you any return.
Whether you buy from a wine investment house, auction house or wine retailer, at the end of the day, who, where and how much you can actually sell your wine for will decide all yor years of waiting is fruitful or not.
Dear all brokers and managers. Please do not act as an investors and try to stir things up and stop acting like an angel by giving “genuine” advice. You know who you are and i know who you guys are. Don’t act blur. You guys are still in the wine investment industry. If you guys want to continue playing this game, i will make sure your name and company details will be listed here too along with UAG.
To genuine investors out there, do not listen to some of the people posting their comments down here. They have their own agenda and self interest.
As for UAG investors, just pray and hope for the best.
May Tua Peh Kong Bless You
Hi all:
after reading thru the threads, I’ve come across a dreadful realisation. It seems that a particular someone here (with prominant threads), is repeating almost verbatim, what a senior broker with _ _ _, used to say to me in his attempt to sell this particular instrument to me. Seems to be always comparing with watches, art, etc…Oh wow, getting exciting…….like ‘Becareful’ said, BEWARE, “wolf in sheep’s clothing”
I’m not UAG broker.. my friend was.. he was under the “wolf” team… that why I got many info abt UAG… I was intro to “wolf” by my friend… “Wolf” was trying to sell me the investment.. like what “little bird” had mentioned.. same sales pitch… comparing watches, art, etc…
Wine: AGM = Assitance Gen Mgr
Anyway, I don’t think this “wolf” will post anymore… since I had managed to peel off his “SHEEP” skin! Haha…
what????
getting more confused, got no hint whatsoever what is this wolf or sheep you talking about..
After reading about the trouble UAG’s gotten so many investors into, I sincerely hope everyone involved can recover some investments back.
I have a new wine broker now. Sadly, his sales pitch sounded all too FAMILIAR, just like the previous one (this loser is no longer around – may have hopped to another company & I have been advised that he can be sued for breach of contract). Despite this ongoing UAG saga, he sounded so optimistic. They all do when they want to sell you out.
I have shunned away from buying the 08 enprimeur, although they are high RP pointers and going at a ‘hefty discount’. That will mean parting with over 20K for the next couple of years. Here’s the all too FAMILIAL sales pitch….Don’t hesistate, if you decide to buy next week, or even tomorrow, I cannot guarantee you that the prices will remain the same for we have very limited stock and they are going fast. I can bring the form to your office so that you wont miss out on this great opportunity. And last but not least, you will thank me for diverting your money into wine investments, during this period when people are losing money in the stock market. All my clients have been very grateful.
What I didn’t tell him was that, thanks to the recent market rally, I managed to narrow the 30% current losses from my 07 enprimeur.
Thanks Wine – after much consideration, I have decided not to sell the 06 and 07s. Will hold till the prices pickup. Very sour feeling selling at such losses. Didn’t get optimistic responses from a popular retail setup regarding their enprimeur sales policies as well.
Good luck to all.
I am also an investor in UAG’s mandatory buy-back scheme. I have one portfolio under them, which has matured in this month (14 May 09).
I have called UAG regarding selling back the portfolio. However, I was requested to accept another acknowledgement letter, which main proposal is call me to accept payment period extend to be within 60 working date. The reason is because current economic down, they need longer period to sell the wine. I have signed the letter and email back to them. I have also received the reply from them to acknowledge receiving my letter.
Actually. I told it will only extend extra one month (original period 30days). But in fact, it will be three months for payment period since it states working day rather than day. Unfortunately, I didn’t find it in the first place.
So, is it anyone can suggest me what I can do now? I planned to wait for it. But, when I found this discussion board, UAG looks like really sucks. I am quite worried for my money. Is it anyone has already taken back the money within 60 working date after signing this acknowledgement letter? Can I pull back it and say I didn’t find this details (60 working day, not 60 day)
My email: ye_shun_cody@msn.com
Hi cody,
you may want to contact Leoster (see her message on April 30th, 2009 at 11:16 am). Her email is leoster7@gmail.com.
bmx
glad to hear that you have been doing more serious consideration before buying more wines… well you are right, their sales pitch definitely is to rush you into buying, and to give you as little time to think as possible, cos they know that if you start doing the research, you will find more disadvantages than benefits and you would rather save the money than to buy from them….
what they are doing is really just like any retail wine shops, they are selling en primeur for every single year and vintage…if you buy to drink still ok, but to invest, only about 3 vintages in a decade is excellent and good for investment, dun bother abt investing in en primeur with average vintages….
lastly, same opinion as usual, especially in this economy, never never ever go into en primeurs unless you are very knowlegable and really know what you are doing… they are just too risky and not worth for you to take such a risk….
now in this issue, there is a high chance uag may close down, and all investors who invested with en primeurs may end up with nothing, NOTHING, not a single drop of wine….
if you know where your en primeurs barrel are stored, better call up the warehouse whether its in france, uk, or the north pole, just call and check to ensure they are really there and they can only be removed with your authorisation…
there are many scam cases where companies just sell you a paper and say ur wines are stored in these places, BUT… the fact is… there is no physical wine or stocks in the first place and there never is….which means they borrow ur money to do something else…. and get new investors in to pay you back if possible, and if not possible, old investors will continue to wait and wait and wait and never will the money come….
so for bmx, if you can sell ur en primeurs at 30% loss, i think probably selling them is a better choice, rather than having a chance to eat ur worthless paper..
well cody, best advice for yourself and others involved is to STOP buying any more wines, and hopefully some good luck will come by for all affected….however, based on history(all the stories of scam companies in uk and australia)(you can read these stories from investdrinks.org), i have not heard a single news where investors managed to get back a single cents after company closed down, those with physical bottles are selling at auctions for 50% lower than what they paid for…… these are the actual facts… and now, be prepared to be part of this scam history….take care and good luck again…
wine is right, stop buying and do not believe those scams that tell you willingly to take over your portfolio and ask you to invest more.
Cod, i suggest you contact leoster and join her group in taking seeking actions against UAG to recover your investment. As here is an open forum, i also felt that there are “wolves in sheep clothings” here.
Me also have portfilio with one only on “buy-back” scheme, luckily all my physical wines are stored in 12 degrees. Finding a buyer for the wines could be difficult and even can find, loss can be easily 30% or higher…A bitter lesson learnt.
I felt there should be awareness to warn any potential investors into wines and also help them avoid scams…
well james,
there is actually prety good awareness when such news are being mentioned in newspaper already…. however just too bad that not every single ppl is reading news…. you know, i am still very surprise when i heard ppl being con by timeshare or mlm companies today… i mean , arent they aware of the potential risks in such companies????
lucky you have the physical stocks, however you better go check with 12 degrees about the ownership, as other investor have mentioned that they are unable to withdraw or do anything to the wines without going through uag, which means only uag have the power to do anything to your wines…. wonder what agreement is going on between this 2 companies…… so if you have no right to take out ur wines, and uag really close down, you will still have to kiss your wines goodbye and eat your worthless paper…
James,
Thanks for your remind! Actually, I have red whole discussion board before I post. Little disappoint on why SG MAS still no regulation for wine investment industrial. I have already contacted with Leoster as well as Tony. I will post more details there.
Regards,
Hi Cody,
Wine is considered as an alternative investment and not a financial product.
This is why it is not regulated by MAS or any government bodies at the moment.
Good luck to you.
Jack
http://wineinvestment.sg
So what regulated by MAS? No investment is 100% safe. If you can’t take the risk don’t invest and don’t call yourself an investor.
Hi All UAG investors,
Good luck to you if you can get your money back. I am a victim of Aztex international and until now, I could’nt get my refund which Aztex promised I will get it after 18 months.
hmm,
with aztex, uag and dventure wines all related and under the same owners, this is very obvious that the newly setup dventure wines is going to be just another scam….
probably the newspaper should not just warn investors abt uag, but should let them be aware abt dventure wines as well, if not guess this thing will just continue on and on and on and on and on and on…….. one company after another after another after another …… probably i should be their partner… easy money… thats the best investment …
like this i just sit and wait for thousands of investors to donate their fortune to me… real easy man… will they just accept a new partner???
oh gentlemen,
i just found out a very interesting news, boss of awi used to be in timeshare scam too! haha seems like wine and timeshare now become very closely related:
http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/pdflib.nsf/LookupByFileName/00-115.pdf/$file/00-115.pdf
wonder, where the bosses of the other company came from?
another link, watch the last page:
http://www.lamrocks.com.au/newsletter/franchises.pdf
To wine,i guess its getting overboard here. If you claims that dventure, uag and aztex are under the same owner, please kindly show some evidence and justification to support your statement. Maybe you also would wan to show up to clarify this as well. well i can be very honest here that i’m from this industry. i guess everyone here would be very glad to see your proofs and everything. Many thanks
well, i have no evidence, just based on experiences of other investors:
1)
Fan on May 11th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
I found an article on UAG related investment in July 2007. http://www.voy.com/161450/2601.html
Is’ about a Victims of Aztex Int’l. Aztex Int’l is in wine business also. It state that
1. UAG and Aztex share the same office space and address.
2. Aztex staff is advising me to move the investment over to Universal Asset Group (UAG) as Aztex will close VERY SOON.
If D’Venture is set up by UAG CEO’s brother, I am wondering if they are trying to set up one company to plug the hole for the previous company.
2)
Peggy on May 12th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Received a call from D’Venture Wines again. They are trying to sell me more wine. Confirm all of them from Universal Assets Group. Same management, same brokers, same system! Sick of it! now waiting to get back my money from UAG……
3)
Peggy on May 13th, 2009 at 10:16 am
Hi b,
D’Venture Wines Pte Ltd
156 Cecil Street #11-01, Far Eastern Bank Building,S(069544)
Tel: +65 6222 1639
My uncle also received a call from them. I think they are calling all the UAG client invest into this new wine company… and again same people same management…. haiz…!
4)
Ed on May 13th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Guys,
Perhaps you can try your luck. If you can’t find your ex-UAG brokers, try to give D’Venture Wines a call..the one you are looking for might be answering the phone.. nobody know…
….
so whether they are telling the truth, let everyone make their own judgements…
and im sure everyone is glad that the above investors are willing to share their experiences here….
well since you from one of these company, YOU surely know the truth… so take care…don’t get hammered outside one day by one of your investor..
To Mac, I can show you the ACRA of Aztex. Dominic Sim is the CEO. Do you want to eat shit if there are proof. You might as well said all these complains of Aztex, UAG are bullshit.
To tell you my experience. I am nearing retirement. After I could’nt get my “timeshare” rent out (this is a scam anyway), I approach CASE to help, But they close the case because no reply from Aztex. I manage to meet up with Norbee (Aztex staff) at Suntec. I begged her to help me, but she ask me to wait for 18 months for the refund. And now 18 months past, but no refund. Aztex will not hesitate to cheap a retiree of his retirement money.
Mac,how could a differnt company know the contacts of “wine investors” of UAG and offer to “buy-over” the portfolios? Since you are in the wine industry, I believe you know the truth and I won’t be surprised that you are formerly from UAG and currently in one of the mentioned company or even setting up your wine company for whatever reasons.
i believe you have posted in this forum before but under a different nick. I do not know your motives here but am sure your effort to “mislead” public/potential investors will useless. Anyway, ST has also published the stories. In fact, it might be a good idea to ask mediacorp to broadcast on one of its currebt affairs program with the affected investors sharing scam stories so as to create greater public awareness.
well said james,
that is a good idea to create a much larger public awareness to lots of people who still dunno what is happening…and i think they should mention related company like dventure wines also…
probably we can invite mr mac to the program and share about his “Truth”…
and i guess all affected investors will be glad to see mr mac explaining and protecting himself on tv….
anyway mr mac, i am thinking of setting up an new investment company offering “guaranteed returns of 60% after 3 years”, can you invest with me, and invite all ur colleagues and brokers and family members to invest with me as well?????
and in case others still do not know, there is a high chance that new company vino en primeur and asset wine is under the same management as well……
just curious why set up a new company if the previous one is doing very well….
again i have no real evidence yet, if you are smart enough, check out the websites of these 2 companies, and you will find a 80% similarity in the content and both are using the same storage facility, pretty obvious already….
The person who is required to address all UAG issues is the CEO of UAG. Only if he can give an answer to all affected clients directly, there is no need for so much of speculation talk in this platform and clients would have an answer to their doubts.
WINE, seems your assumption is to link all the bad companies in yr list together and leaving the good ones alone. Do u find any similarity between Singapore Airlines n Malaysian Airways website? Quite similiar too. Bcos the products n services are the same. How many bonded storage facility provider are there in Singpore? If u use Cougar, ur related to AWI; if use XII Degrees ur related to UAG/Profitters; if use wine bond related to PLA….and the speculation goes on. A bonded warehouse is an independent service provider that store boneded n duty paid wines, beers, liquors, cigarettes etc in their premise. They don’t bother who are you bcos it is a business account to them. Many of the facts that u have highlighted related to wine knowledge and operation are indeed helpful, but not such speculation. Such speculation does not help anyone.
confuse…
haha u compare singapore airlines and malaysian airways website, is only similar in their services…
but if you see the contents in asset wine and vino en primeur website is almost 70%-80% exactly the same, word for word, every single word my friend…
means the website designer just copy and paste, thats it…..
is there any 2 companies website example u can tell me that have its contents 80% exactly the same in every single word???? any?????
dun try to hide confuse, or are u mac???? or are u akela??? or are u Ed???? someone with many nicks…… even james have seen thru u, come on… you are the only one here defending and protecting these wine fraud companies…..
or are u one of their partners????? can i join as partner???
lastly, i said there is a high change, probably 70%-80% chance, again let everyone make their own judgement, though its pretty obvious already,
with mac defending his uag group and u defending ur awm group, next,
will we have an awi broker coming to defend his company later, and going to mention that even though his boss was involved in timeshare scam previously, but now he is a good man???
so again, let everyone else make their own judgements…..
and confuse,
one thing u must take note that all these posts by us, investors, are not meant to help u or any wine companies, is to help the investors and potential investors of urs….
they will really be glad to not have waste more of their hard -earned money into potential frauds….
of cos you will be sad getting lesser commission…. well havent u got enough????
May i ask which statement that i made in my posting that u find me “here defending and protecting these wine fraud companies”?
My point is simple – the only person responsible to resolve this matter is the CEO of uag n he is not saying anything. No matter what we say, speculate or condemning like what u did will not help the affected people to get their payout or wines.
I have read the 2 website and understand where ur coming from. Seems u have spent quite some time studying these competitors. Wonder if ur also from the same industry, perhaps Profitter, PLA, Equity or WINE I that u have not spoken badly about.
confuse, or akela, or mac, or agm, whoever u are,
well u are right that the ceo of uag is responsible, however what can he say???sorry??? return all the money??? will a conman do that???? and u, are u working for him???
so my point is simple, as mentioned, i have not heard of any single person who was being con in wine investment, land, gold or timeshare, and still can get back a single cents, so have to give warning to others to stop investing any single cents to some fraud companies….
oh haha, well im a prospect with almost all these companies, and i have been wondering how new companies got my contact from….even until now still got new brokers calling me to invest, probably u are the one calling me eh….
thanks for reminding, the thing is the other 4 companies, only pla and equity i know more, didnt know anything abt profiters or wine i….
just to share a bit:
profiter: really know nothing abt them, cant comment….any investor wanna comment?????
pla: many ppl tell me they are good, but i feel the wines they selling pretty expensive…. so far every news i heard abt them have been good…think among all the companies, this is the better one…anyway got friend invest with them, lets see if he can make money from them or not…
equity: problem with their wine growth fund http://investdrinks.org/other.htm , other than that, their wines also expensive, than no further info, so guess still ok….
wine i: just know abt them, very new company, dunno will close down or not, see who dare to try out now, dun think anyone will try…
other than these 4, the rest just keep calling me, and telling me so many things haha, and yes they bad mouth each other, so thats how i found out a bit of their secret…so confuse, do you remember calling some prospects and saying bad things abt other company? that person could be me….
Dear UAG victims, please keep up the complains, police reports, otherwise you will never get your money back. My experience with Aztex victims is that just like UAG victims now, they made lots of complains 2 years ago to CASE, police, SCT, etc. But I think they could’nt get the money back or some only get the 1st payment. You know time will wear-off people resolve. They simply giveup.
Another point is don’t transfer any monies or agreemtn to another company. This is the way some Aztex victims transfer theirs to UAG and now see what UAG doing.
Hi All,
If you all are wondering whether there is anyone out there with portfoilos under UAG maturing at later dates, I am one of those. I have 2 portfoilos in UAG’s mandatory buy-back scheme which will mature in September this year. However after looking at above comments, seems like it will be tough for me to liquidate my portfolios as well. I sincerely need some advice on what I should do next so appreciate if anyone can contact me at anfernee14@hotmail.com
Btw just to share some info, I was also contacted by a wine broker from D’venture wines. After he contacted me, a few weeks later the news on UAG appeared on the newspaper. Then after that, I got a call from Vino En Primeur but I was too sceptical on all these after the UAG news broke out.
Hope to know more soon.
Thanks!
Hi, I am looking for wine broker to trade off my australian wine collection. Willing to pay good commission for good profit achieved. Anybody keen?
Hi day, can u provide more details wat kind of australia wine collection of yours?
24 bottles of Penfolds Grange 2001, trying my luck to find a interested buyer.
Thanks.
Hi pink, I have one collection of Cullen DM plus others. Which company are you representing? Can email me at dave.artifacts@gmail.com
well firstly,the post that i did was the first post.secondly to wine, wine on May 22nd, 2009 at 2:11 am
hmm,
with aztex, uag and dventure wines all related and under the same owners, this is very obvious that the newly setup dventure wines is going to be just another scam….
you said this and your explaining from anoher form?
thirdly to Aztex victim on May 22nd, 2009 at 10:54 pm
To Mac, I can show you the ACRA of Aztex. Dominic Sim is the CEO. Do you want to eat shit if there are proof. You might as well said all these complains of Aztex, UAG are bullshit.
the topic now that we are talking about is if UAG AZTEX DEVENTURE stands together as a whole. pardon my ignorance,wheather UAG and Aztex are together or not i don’t know.
Stop complaining about D’Venture, UAG, Aztex, Vino enprimeur etc….
wooohh …. shit … u r right … some similarity in wordings … GUESS what … the rest of the companines have the similarity as well, they seems to have nothing on their own to write but coping around ….
did they all copy each other?????
so is the youngest-formed companies coping from the oldest companies????
i don’t really find vino similarity are as high as u say … but i find pla is, oh man, the serving part seems so the same …
any way, as u mentioned i went to look thru books, seems to recall i read some where before .. haha guess what?? … found that they copy from books …
so i guess , the info seems to be almost similar, even the books ‘Guides to serving wines correctly’ ‘wine for novice’ ‘discovering wines’ ‘the art and science of wine’ said the same things, and R Parker said the similar things about which wines is good to keep for $$ …
so … out-of-curious … What’s the big deal???
All of a sudden, we have a few people now “speaking up” for the new wine company..This reminds me sometimes years back when I visited some MLM sites and when someone question whether MLM is a scam or says something negative, many othere will start attacking his person..Why?? Because those who “attack” him are in the MLM business..
Wine, dun waste your time with them. The truth will always be there..and readers in this forum will defintely can differeniate what is happening…
haha james,
yah in fact, i am feeling the same way that basically we are wasting our time, no wonder never see any “real investors” posts anymore…
like you say, the “truth will always be there” and these ppl knows the “truth”…
wonder if can form up a company to scam these scammers….
Aztex is not a wine investment company. It is a timeshare resaler. After the complaints saga 2 years ago, it closed shop. But where all the monies collected from all the victims go to? How can Aztex get so many corporate customers willing to buy the rental from all the victims?
I am trying to preemp what UAG will be doing. There are similarities. They will close shop very soon and do what they like with the monies. As a private company, they do not need to show their balance sheet.
Singapore’s Wine Investment companies are just another tactics from Timeshares… As they can just sell anything no need wines they can use other products like arts,lands,coal ETC or maybe Beers … They all have the same concept : Demand and Supply… If this business is a proven, i’ll be glad that private banks should do the same as them… at least much more safer… However to all victims of Wine Investment scams the best solution for you is to get those physical bottles under your name and in our local storage facitilies at least you can gain some rather then you lose everything… Seriously speaking no use to create police report or what so ever just take this as you did a wrong decision in investment like buying wrong shares in stock market… anyway good luck!!
Wah die. This UAgrp is in trouble or what? Their inventory listing for my investment isn’t correct. Send email no replies.
Ask for selling price of my investment also no replies.
so sad. so scared. T_T
Any investors/collectors want to sell off their wine collections and are willing to explore new avenues can email to me pinkykyy@gmail.com and discuss about it.
Ooooh Poor “Aztex victim”…..
After i read some of your complaints….Realised u r actuali a “BIG SOTONG” lor….Seems like u go everywhere also got CONNED….
Time Shares…Wine Investments…u name it…believe there’s more hidden secrets u yet reveal…i’m sure u also got CONNED by China Gals lor…Anyway…dun get over bother for those losses la…moreover u r already on ur retirement, dun need so much $$ in ur pocket…cos u can’t bring to hell anyway cos they using “Hell notes”…
Most important is…Jus sit and enjoy the process…of Dreaming being RICH…haha
Gooooood Luck!!
Yah, I realised too & I blamed myself for being sotong twice. But sotong catcher you must be from Aztex or UAG group. Beware your last days when you reflect on what you do in your lifetime, for you must die too and need those Hell notes you are accummulating now. Remember what I said on your deathbed, ok. Hahaha
Wow….
How come there’s so many CRY BABIES here??
Why CRYING over Spilled Milk?
That’s Investments mah….Where got SURE WIN or GUARANTEE return one?? *faint*
Can’t believe why there’s still so many NAIVE people like you guys….Sigh
Instead of Accusing those Investment Companies, Brokers or Agents…WHY don’t blame yourself for being Greedy or Stupid?
I Strongly BELIEVE those Brokers NEVER point a Gun at YOU & FORCE you to Invest rite?
That’s Investment…You WIN some, You LOSE some…
And if YOU can’t effort to LOSE…Dun Invest OK…
Either YOU Pray Hard for the Economic to IMPROVE…
If not, come over here….Let MUMMY Breastfeed YOU…
Sotong, you are a very mean soul…
Aztex, I am also a victim of UAG and can understand what you go through..Think it from another angle, we should feel proud even we are cheated of our money.. Able to give is always a blessing than to receieve, eg we are blessed to donate to charity than to receive alms from charity…Likewise, we are blessed that we have the money to invest rather (through cheated) than those scums like Aztech cheating others of money…We live clean and with honour, unlike them who lives on cheating others and also cursed by so-called their clients…I believe there will be judgement day…
It is create awareness, not CRY babies, so that other innocent people will be not cheated…Good for you cheaters that if we keep quiet and you can continue to scam people…Losing money in investment is no big deal, we post to alert others not to fall into your traps…Yes, you guys are successfuly to prey on human weakness and make your unethical monies, but i believe your consciences will definitely catch up with you one day..god bless
james is right,
to all investors,
what has happened has happened, you are not the only one, there are many others like you…..
the good news for you is you have finally know the truth and stop investing, what is sad now is many other investors of other companies still do not know the truth of their companies, and they are probably still being conned to buy thousands and thousands of wines today…..
thanks to all those affected who has put in the effort to create the awareness to warn future investors…..
thanks to the media for publishing the news to create more awareness, just hope that the truth behind the other scam companies will be released soon before more get cheated…..
the con men or women have already earned enough money to buy a nice car, or a nice house and the bosses probably just enjoying themselves everyday and leave the shit to the staff….all these with your hard earned money….
nevertheless, everyone of them is just a conmen…. and even now they are still happily cheating new investors of their money….
the world is so huge, now that singapore market is getting harder, these conmen will explore and focus on oversea market to cheat those who are still unaware of what is happening…. and what can we do?????
even singapore which is one of the strictest in law, they have also managed to con so many ppl of their money, the market in other countries will become easy target for them……
what you can do, you have already done it, and what you cannot do, just so be it…..
hopefully any investors reading now know what is happening and dun be stupid to continue to put in more money to whatever reasons the conmen said…..
if you have the wines, you can drink them slowly, its never a waste, if you have nothing, just a paper, put it somewhere you can see easily to constantly remind urself not to be cheated again by any future too good to be true scheme, learn from ur mistakes, and dun make that same mistakes again….
if there is no evil, there is no good, so one day we will see the truth behind the rest of the companies today, and hopefully all the evils one will be punished, i just pray that the punishment will not go to their innocent family or their children…. just punish them will do…. or have it already happened???
hahahahaha i think so, as one of them here have seem to become a mad guy already, shouting and crying all over the place , and changing nicks everyday, probably he dun recognise his own name already, or ……well… maybe the worst is yet to come…. i just wish him the worst ever life he will encounter every single minute….
This UAG issue really make relationship falls apart.. just to share my experience broker is one of my good buddies now turn our relationship to sour.. nevertheless i could not blame him but all my money gone bcos i entrusted my savings to my good fren for 5 years but now looks like everything is gone.. anyway saw the yahoo group thing that they want to go down to UAG office?? dont know wat they will do trash the whole place up?? haha.. even if we go down pressure CEO is not in Singapore, how to settle things? Must really highlight in strait times BIG BIG Article so everyone go pressure, i believe some may be not updated..
Please inform when Dominic Sim is back from overseas in this posting. Aztex and UAG victims should confront him like what happen for Lehman Brother. There are definitely frault to be formed if CAD scrutinise their accounts.
Hi KP & All victims,
Just wondering if anyone of you who have filed police report with Contact Insp. Ho (Ban Hsiung HO [HO_Ban_Hsiung@spf.gov.sg] or via seperate tracks might be able to share the procedures/status?
I have 2 buy back scheme supposed to mature end this year & beginning next year (but I do not think how it can still with situation that we are encoutering).
Anway, hope to hear from you all, thanks.
This thing sounds bad lor. People sure got someway to go after this company. What options got?
Jack, please don’t trying to promote your website and company here.
Don’t act like an expert. Thank you.
I have a previous post about not-so-pleasant experiences with AWI. Everything said on this forum about hard selling and unresponsive brokers, high broker turnover rates, delay tactics, are still valid.
Can someone confirm that Jeremy Kasler refered to in the PDF links is the same person who founded AWI Singapore?
Anybody else has experiences with AWI?
I just floated my portfolio to another brokerage firm and it’s just been told to me that the wine collection I have is not even considered investment grade by this other firm. So much for the LIES from Australian Wine Index.
To the nut case who identifies herself as MUMMY, please don’t expose your own ignorance by saying that it’s OK for investment brokerage firms to have unscrupulous practices and misrepresent information so as to mislead potential investors. Investment is based on knowledge, not your win-some-lose-some of a 4D luck. People on this forum are victims of fraud. There is no room for trivializing the matter.
yo…is the same Jeremy Kasler that owns awi la….he just scam people money in australia, you can find him in google and yahoo…just type his name in search
Hi SK, I have also invested with AWI. Have visited the storage to view the collection, but they have yet to trade off my collection…
I have one portfolio with UAG on “buy-back” scheme, matured in April 09, but faced similar problem you guys mention. Would wish to join your group to seek actions against UAG to recover our investment. Can be contacted via albert_chia1@hotmail.com
Shit! UAG office will be temporary closed to review internal technical issues. Anyone know who to look for to get back the money?
Tom, perhaps you can give them a call at 6880 4008 and email to enquiries@uagrp.com or wait until they re-open on 15.06.2009.
Alternatively you may try to give D’Venture Wines a call as well.
Tom and J.S. – how did you find out info on the temporary closure? When exactly is the closure – Jun 1 to 15?
Sorry, ignore my earlier post – just saw the memo on their website..
awi always got issue trading…i invest with then 4 years and they trade none
After the Straits Times report on UAG on 11 May 2009, I was trying to look for Forum on unhappy UAG investors but couldn’t find any until today when I insert UAG wine in the Search.
I am also a victim investing with UAG and although I didn’t invest in the buy back scheme. I was recommended buy back scheme with guaranteed 8% return in February but I find the price of over 6K rather high, so I invested in 24 bottles of wine.
I really have no knowledge in wine investment and the procedures. UAG was very fast to bank in my cheque in March this year. I was told that I will be able to see my wine in the warehouse at the end of May. But up to today, I still don’t see my wine.
My wine broker really scan all my contact numbers. She remembers all my nos., even I hold two hp nos. She will not answer my calls but only replies my sms.
I only got my account opening form by email last month. I believe she purposely delayed the whole procedure and sms me on 3 June, informed me that UAG’s office will be closed and resume operation on 15th May.
My wine broker had washed her hands and not taking any more responsibilities. She told me that Ms Nurbee from procurement will take over client portfolios.
While asking me to invest, she told me that my investment will be safe since the wine will be under my name even if UAG is to be liquidated. But she told me that I only need to sigh the Account Opening Form.
Can anyone advise does it mean that by signing the form, the wine are under my name? The worst of all is I don’t even see or smell my wine.
Can a wine broker be liable in a way of assisting the CEO of cheating investors? She misled me to invest in wine. I still got email proof that she told me that my investment will be safe since the wine will be under my name even if UAG is to be liquidated.
Wine broker is a Angel while asking you to invest in wine but immediately turn into a Demon after you make payment.
UAG…hmmmm they will not operate again i guess. I also have investment with them, till now i have been calling my broker, but no answer too.Anyone here can give some suggestion please.
Hi Angry Man I advise that you call or write to XII Degrees (admin.sg@12deg.com or 6732 0555)to confirm that you wine in there and under your name. If it’s not and you have an email from UAG claiming that it is, I recommend that you make a police report. I did so because some of my wine that UAG claimed had been delivered actually had not been.
If your contract states that the wine was to be delivered on a certain date and that date has reasonably passed you can consider making a claim with the small claims tribunal.
There are two groups I know off made up of disgruntled UAG investors. Contact leoster7@gmail.com or uag_investor@yahoo.com.sg if you want to be part of these groups.
Hi Cretin, I already called and email to XII Degrees last week and they informed me that my name is not in the list, no wine delivered there. I will definitely contact leoster7@gmail and uag_investor@yahoo.com.sg later. I hope to at least get my 24 bottles of wine. I am prepare to buy a wine chiller to store the wine for my own consumption, thinking of do that.
I was also wondering how many investors invest in UAG by participating in the sms contest earlier of this year. I participated and did not win any prizes and was then approached by my wine broker. I think UAG organise the contest in order to cheat more investors.
Not to frighten you, your investment is good as gone. UAG victims are experiencing what Aztex victims had gone through before. Even Ms Nurbee is the same person we contacted during the Aztex saga. UAG victims you must hang together to complain together or UAG will hang you individually, as the saying goes. But I still think you will not get back the money because investment implied you can loss the money. Even for Aztex case which is to get back the refund, we could’nt get it.
What !! Nurbee is the same person in Aztex…and this UAG is actally a scam going on for more than 2 years….oh my god !!!
any want got any idea hows AWI, will they close soon, my wines are still not sold after so many years.Been calling and calling , they always say get back but no. please help someone here. I am scare that they will close too. I heard many clients got the same issue with awi too.
I think many of these companies selling non MAS regulated investments like wine may be scams. The first few investors do make money but when they cannot find anyone else buy your wine they close shop and set up another business. What do you’ll think? A reporter needs to do a big big story on this to inform the public so others don’t get trapped. Any reporters here?
Can anyone share what is the Aztex saga about and who is Ms Nurbee? She sounds like very terrible person here. She can’t be a mediator between troubled Company and angry investors, right? If she is a bad person who involves in scams two years ago, why is she still here? She ought to be in prison.
Tessa Wong is the SPH reporter and I attach her posting here:
Tessa Wong on February 19th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
Hi all, this seems like quite a hot topic. I was wondering if any of you would be able to share your stories about wine investments with me, I’m a journalist with the Straits Times and writing an article on this. If you have anything to get off your chest, or anything to recommend, regarding your experiences with wine investment, please e-mail me at twong@sph.com.sg. Thanks!
My agent ask me to invest a portfolio of 2008 en primeur (comprises of 5 labels: Latour, Lafite, Mouton, Margauc & Haut Brion) at $24,000, price will go up next Monday…can anyone advise whether it is a good investment?
Nini, you have not read through all the postings here? If you have, the answer is obvious. If you have not, than you learn the hard way.
The newspaper cutting is available at the UAG investor Yahoo group I’ve created
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/sour_UAG_investment/
You need to make your own judgement.
Cheers
Tony
Nini, my two cents would be to keep your money in the bank.
It’s better to have cash than a certificate that entitles you to some wine that may or may not be actually there.
If you’re swayed by the (higher than bank) interest rates, imagine an interest rate of -100% if things go wrong.
Nini,
Was offered the 08 at $21362 4 weeks ago. (WOW! 12% returns already) I didn’t take it up for obvious reasons. You would have made more buying blue chips or selected counters the last 4 weeks with $24000. From someone still stuck with enprimeur losses, pls don’t be taken in by their song with the same lyrics which will go like this –
If you buy next week, I cannot gurantee you the same price.
We have limited stock, especially for selected clients like you.
So please don’t hesistate, for you’ll miss this great opportunity
Pls consider carefully. You will be parting with $24000 the next 3 years, before you see any returns, if any.
However, you may see early or bigger returns if the economy returns early or of there is a RP100 among them. My 2 cents
nini
$24,ooo for a case each of the 5 first growths u listed is a reasonable price. may i ask which company offer u this good price????
but u must understand the high risk in buying en primeur, you are actually giving free loan to the merchant or wine company for 18 months…before “your wine” is being bottled and deliver to the bonded warehouse…..
and if ur merchant close down anytime during these 18 months, probably you will never ever ever ever see ur wines…..
and if your company is a scam company, probably the wines never existed in the first place, which means again you will never never ever ever see any wines after 18 months….
with news of scams in wine investment now, you wanna take the risk???? are you sure?????? how many hours have u worked to earn these 24k… and a chance to become -100% like trevor said….
worth it???? well make ur decision…. and good luck… but hopefully u wont get ur retired parents , grand parents and close friends involved as well, take the risk ur self and hmmmmmm may god be with u….
just imagine urself in the situation as many investors here, now u buy 24k, 2 years later ur broker tell u ur wines worth 40k, then u say u wanna sell, then broker uncontactable for 1 year, until company come out in newspaper…..
then u will set up one more group here…..
if you wanna have a high chance to experience what they have experienced, then go ahead, give the free 24k loan to ur broker…
good luck…
Thanks for the advice, I have decided not to invest any more. No point to “average out” the loss as told by the agent. I got to konw this wine investment last year thru the invest fairs and was given a rosy picture. I had already invested a portfolio of 07 en primeur. Now it is paper loss about 30%, any advice on whether to cut loss and get rid of this type of investment or continue to hold them till the end of 3 years? Thanks.
Nini,
Wise decision. I learnt it the hard way.
‘Wine’ advised to cut loss at 30% as you may lose more. I thought about it and decided to hold. Afterall the price includes 3 yrs insurance and cellaring.
My broker MIAed after I signed my sales contract. Eventually I found out that my wines weren’t even put up for sale. Broker’s one hell of a crook….anyway he’s left the company.
And it’s not even UAG…..
Caveat Emptor
nini
if you can sell today, i would advice u to sell and get back 70% of your money…. why? you may ask.. see below….
07 en primeurs was released at too high a price, and none of the 5 1st growths is rated above 95 points by parker, with the 08s releasing at about 20%-40% cheaper than 07s and the wines rated highly by robert parker and a few other critics, this is the reason for the value of 07 to drop, and a possibility that the prices may drop further…..
many wine merchants all over the world are having a hard time clearing their 07 stocks now….. so if you can sell today and get the cash, why not????
again, we dunno if ur company is reputable or another scam and there may be a chance of -100% loss…..
if they are reputable, for the value of your 07 to rise back to what you paid for may take u some decades….. you wanna wait that long???????
well these agents will give you all sorts of reasons to get u to buy more wines, when they ask u to buy the 07s, did they tell u how risky they are????? no??????
so telling you to put more money into 08s and telling you all the advantages without you knowing all the disadvantages means next year, if it so happen ur 08s arent doing well, then they will ask u “Average out” again by buying the 09s… and it will continue forever… until u are broke…..
so my advice to you before these brokers read this forum, faster go get back ur 70% cash first…… good luck…..
and of cos these are just what i think,,, you make ur own decision… its ur money, ur life…. take care nini
arh forget one thing, dun give them the impression u wont buy from them anymore, act like once you get the 70% cash, then you will buy the 08s from them… then they will process for you the selling part much faster….. if not they may give u all sorts of reason s and drag and drag for months and months, then by the time they sell , they tell u sorry, prices have drop further , now you can only get back 50% cash and not 70% cash……
of cos, it may not be that easy, as they may ask u buy the 08s first before selling the 07s for you… well do u wanna trust that????
good luck
Hey Guys, why not try emailing Christie’s or Zachy’s Or Sotheby’s auctions houses… Maybe they might be able to sell. I’m talking about for those who have physical bottles. Can check with them the prices i think if you enquire… But nontheless i have a strong feeling the UAG already close down cos the CEO doesn’t seem to answer the CAD officer’s call… Donnoe what the next action will be…
I believe in investment there is risk, plus you need to be aware about the knowledge in wine trading so maybe you can sell it yourself and at least you know which one is a good investment choice or grade… BUT the most important thing is whether the bottle are in Singapore or not it depends… or else bye bye to your $$$
Nini, I agree with wine. Go for it. 30% loss is ok, just treat it as a lesson and learn from it. I’d rather you get back your 70% cash.
Have you ever queried about where they get their paper value from? How can you verify the current prices? From their mouths? Didn’t they also say that wine investment is “low-risk” and less susceptible to economic downturns? So how come there’s a 30% “paper loss” now?
They may be just jacking the prices higher themselves and selling someone else’s portfolio to you at a profit so to enforce the rosy picture.
Wine brokers, if any, pls don’t bother answering my questions above. Sure sure, any investment will have risk. That’s why I trust my instincts in being non-supportive of wine investment.
Nini,
If you had bought the 07 for $40000+, and if you were to sell off now, you will probably end up with about $24000 after deducting commission. That will be a massive 40% loss. I went through these numbers with the company a couple of weeks ago based on last sales estimates.
I had so many calls pushing me to buy the 08. After I refused, no more calls. I wanted to sell the 07 first and transfer the money to 08. Sorry, it takes a month to liquidate, so should buy the 08 first as the prices will not hold at such LOW prices for another week. Whatever Wine and Trevor mentioned above, pay heed. I’ve been through or heard all that. Most brokers deny that the company intersell between clients. You have to judge for yourself.
Warning Capital Recovery Pte Ltd SCAM!!
I just got a call from someone claiming to be from Capital Recovery Pte Ltd. He claimed that there was a government injuncture against UAG and they were working with some unnamed government agency to help investors recover cost. What bullshit. He couldn’t even tell me exactly how he got my details. Seems like they are trying to scam UAG wine investors the same way they did timeshare investors.
Nurbee will not go to jail even if there is fraud found. She is just an employee of Aztex & UAG. According to a Malay victim, she begged her to help as someone coming from the same race and religion. But she said she could’nt help because the decision comes from Dominic. But I am very sure she is a key person who has all the information of Aztex & UAG. Some past postings can still be found if you just do a search on google.
Hi Nini,
This is just my personal tip for myself whenever I have to make a buying decision.
“Whenever I need to buy something, I will ask myself a few times ‘Do I really need this?’ ‘So what if I don’t buy it?’. Then, I will surely take some time to seriously consider about spending my money for something which may not be useful for myself. It may take me a few days, up to weeks to decide whether I should buy this product. If I really need this product, I will definitely buy it somehow or rather. If not, nothing bad has changed and my life is still good without having to spend money for unneccessary things.”
By asking for others’ opinions and advices here, you have shown that you are not making rush decisions and is seriously doing more research before buying. And this is very good.
I have seen pretty good suggestions from other investors for you.
Do take their comments into your considerations.
Weigh the pros and cons and make the best decision for yourself.
Never let others decide for you. Because “Only You” knows what is best for yourself.
Jack
http://WineInvestment.sg
Hi, is there any updates about UAG and wad the hell is going on now?
I couldnt get approval for the Yahoo!group.
Pls help. =)
UAG is closing down, the next will be AWI. Please advice what I can do next to take my money back from these 2 company.
Hi Peanut
How do you know that AWI is closing down?
nonsense
Many of us are coming out together to visit AWI office ,after getting into UAG saga, we no longer want to wait for AWI to sell our wines, we have waited more then 1 year from the time they say they will trade our wine out, they are always coming out with excuses whenever we call them. Enough is enough
There is a difference between closing down and not being able to trade out your wine. If you are so desperate to sell, why not ask AWI to sell at 10% of your investment price? Or 20%? There will always be buyers at low prices…a matter of supply and demand. You know that your wine is safely stored in your name right ? So if you can wait it out then you are safe. Investing means you are prepared to hold, speculating means you are short-term, suicidal means you will go bust if you cannot sell now.
Hi Thu, we have even a lost of 30% of their so call “valuation’ and they cant even sell till now and we are talking about a year .
hmm…
seems like we are going to find out the truth abt awi very soon….
lets see if we will have more investors from other companies sharing their experiences here…..
thanks peanut for sharing your experience, this will be a good warning to any of their “potentials customers” if they happen to see this website…..
wonder are we going to see awi in newspaper soon….
Hi Peanut,
You mean some investors of AWI are getting together? Might if you could provide more details. I am keen to join in as well.
any idea if PLA any good? went to their wine seminars and seem ok? any bad experience with them? tinking of investing in french wine, seems much beter. what do you think?
I really wonder why ppl can do such things. I’m also a victim of UAG.Thanks to this broker, Samuel Soh Chin Keong. Through me, I brought him biz to almost 90K. Still tell me, he’s from NTU and bla bla bla…intelligent guy but no moral integrity at all.
I really pray hard that justice will be served to them. They will surely face retribution and I wonder if their families knew abt it or are they kept in the dark?
How can you blame this broker? He is just an employee. He is not the one behind this.
What a sore loser…
confused…
i cant really comment on pla……well, just do your homework and check up more information first…… never never never ever be rushed into any investments, they will surely tell you this offer or whatever price is the best now, or whatever, whenever they ask you to buy wines, NOW will always be the best time……. so when is the best time?????????????
just be careful…. if u die die must invest in wine in situations like today where more and more scam are being uncovered, i can only wish you good luck……….
one secret which a broker told me before when he is trying to sell me the investment thing, seems like many brokers or even bosses of these investment companies came from awi or timeshare………
so are they really trustworthy????????????
do ur own judgement…….
hi,
I was wondering if anyone of you got a call from Global Capital Recovery Pte Ltd wrt to the UAG issue? Thanks!
Hi Sheila
You might want to refer to comment posted by Cretin on 6 Jun above.
Hi Confused
I would say so far PLA is consider the better one in Singapore. Visit their office before and looking into french with them too.Their website is so much different and informative compare to the rest, from there I judge by myself that they are really looking into long term. But end of the day still up to you to decide.
Hi everyone, any idea is UAG back to operation today , as mentioned in their website.
Probably I will give a call later and check…
I also need to contact them to inform them about my portfolio’s maturity…
called up two times, also got the same voice message that the officer is currently engaged, ask me to email, bla bla. Already email them long ago but no reply from them.
Did anybody manage to talk to Ms Nurbee or did anyone went down to the office?
Any update?
Haiz.. i am also one of the UAG victim. The brokers, Ferdrick and Sky didn even pick up my calls at all after this incident. My relatives and i invested quite an amount with them…How can all this people took our commission and disappeared just like that. Really don’t know how… Utterly disappointed and depress now. .feeling lost!!! My relatives came to me crying and kept asking for my help..i already go through case and whatsoever all procedure. There is nothing i can do but to aimlessly wait. . Really feel sorry for them. Don’t know how to face them. Arhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
CAN UAG RETURN ALL THESE ELDERLY THEIR HARD EARN MONEY!!!!!
hi, i am also one of the investor. was trying to contact them but nobody pick up the phone. Did anyone try going down to the office? So upset now.. all my saving just gone like that. should we form a group to go down and check with them?
hi, yesterday my collegues went down to the office. to no avail. still shut.. what puzzled me is how can such things happened in Singapore. Ladies and gentleman, think our money gone for sure!! Is there anything we can do about it? Anyone?
I also not too sure what going on now or what should we do. I called CASE, they ask me to approach CAD and find out what is the outcome of the investigation and say the company maybe out of operation as during the investigation, all assets of the company will be freeze. My concern is are we able to do anything about it. Anyone know what the right we can execute now?
You can only pray and wait.
Watson: Yes, they wont pick up our calls anymore. I really wonder if they are in cahoots and why can’t we blame the brokers?
1. How come their resignation dates are so near each other? Such a coincidence?
2. Don’t tell me they do not know what’s going on in the company? No matter how couldnt care less attitude one has, by the word of mouth, one can more or less hear ppl talk abt the company’s issues.
3. If they are really clean, shouldn’t they at least come clean with us? What for hide? For fear that we will go after them for our investments?
The least they can do is to advise us the next course of action. Already for just a simple request that we want our portfolios to be assigned to the next broker, the broker already avoided my calls. Is it that difficult to deal with? I see he has no absolute intentions of establishing long terms investment relationships.
Like you say, since it’s the company’s fault and not the employees, coming clean is better than doing the hide and seek, isn’t it?
Perhaps to each his own….
I went down to the office on 15th Jun. The whole place is dark. Office is obviously closed. The place is not torn down. Just red-white tape across the doors and a pc of paper as per the website notice.
Any ideas if we can sell our wines IF we are able to find someone to buy it from us? Or must we go through UAG? Cant we just sell it off from 12degrees?
Hi all,
In view of the current situation, it seems that UAG is closing its doors to investor.
Also, I’ve spoke to other folks (within the yahoo group) and it seems that some are keen to start legal actions against UAG & UAG directors.
I’ll like to suggest that we come together and discuss this.
Also, I’m trying to contact leoster7@gmail. com to see if her group is starting something similar.
Anyone who is keen to participate in a legal action can contact me.
I’ll spend 1-2 weeks consolidating the name list before I send out the meeting details.
Cheers
Tony.
97956999
uag_investor@yahoo.com.sg
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/sour_UAG_investment/
Angry Man: i also got the same feeling that they may be in cahoots. Brokers like Samuel Soh chin keong(hard selling salesperson from NYP then NTU), fedrick (Recent join d’venture), Sean(Shaun)now director of d’venture(Claimed ‘brother’ of UAG diector ‘dominic’) all quited very recent. Two months ago, this company D’venture called me to invest on them. Wonder how they know i am one of the wine investor. Must be all this people leak out informations. I thought all investors info are suppose to be confidential?
Ya.. I think will sure join leoster7 and Tony for the legal thinkie.
Maybe set up another forum to put all their pictures in to prevent others being conned again. Irresponsible brokers!!! Dare to dissappear after earning commission of 7-11%. Sometimes i really don’t know what they thinking.
If they(UAG and brokers) are really clean. Should come out and manage all our expectation. i don’t mind the company delay payment. BUT PLS DON”T TOTALLY DISSAPPEAR. YOU ARE CREATING FEAR TO EVERY INVESTOR!!!
DOMINIC!!! HOW LONG CAN YOU HIDE!!!PLS GIVE US AN EXPLANATION!
Watson_Tan – To be really honest with you. You are not really those investor from what you have posted here. What is the whole point trying to caps your word and !!!? For what? U think by doing this ur money will come back to you? And you have alot of wrong info posted here. I wonder where you get these information from. However, its good to prevent others from being conned again.
What you expect the brokers to react and do when they found out Dominic is going down the drain??? Answer your calls and tell you they will pay you back out of their own pocket? How to come clean? Go see you face to face let you guys spit saiva on them? Brokers they themselves are scared shitless. Losing their jobs, credibility and reputation. While the management level are lauging all the way to the bank. Brokers take direct instructions from managers not Dominic. So if you die die want to find someone to blame, find the ex managers,directors.
However Watson i encourage you guys to take legal action against UAG if possible. Some brokers i’ve come to know are already in a difficult situation by finding new jobs in the midst of recession while having to answer phonecalls by terrible investors who cursed and sweared at them all the time. What would you do if you were a fellow broker? Give them your own money which you can’t possible afford?
I have to agree with you that there are some badass brokers whom already know that there are something fishy going on in UAG but they continue to sell like there’s no tomorrow. But there were also brokers who stopped selling and quit. So you cannot just say the brokers are irresponsible.
FYI. Frederick did not join D’Venture.
Hi Tony,
Thanks alot for setting up the group. Will definitely join in the discussion on the legal approach. Just like what Watson_tan bro had said. Don’t mind the late payment but why cant they just come clean with all their investors.
why cant they come clean?????
well, i guess the only ans is because they are not clean………..
cant possibly, they call you and say “sorry, our company was just scamming your money, don’t expect to get a single cent back, byebye”
Wine- What would you say and do if you were a broker? What do you mean by they are not clean? Kindly explain
Hi disappointed,
1. How come their resignation dates are so near each other? Such a coincidence?
- Because they came out to set up their own wine investment company.
Example: D’Venture Wines etc.
2. Don’t tell me they do not know what’s going on in the company? No matter how couldnt care less attitude one has, by the word of mouth, one can more or less hear ppl talk abt the company’s issues.
- Of course everyone in the company know.
3. If they are really clean, shouldn’t they at least come clean with us? What for hide? For fear that we will go after them for our investments?
- You already know the answer “Not clean”
Hi Duh,
You are right, not every ex-uag brokers joined D’Venture.
For example: Frederick Fok also set up his own wine investment company.
If your guys really do a search, they are so many newborn wine investment company around after the UAG saga and some of them even set up three to four wine investment company with different name.
So, do your research before invest.
Duh on: Are you one of the brokers or investor. I see all your posting and you seems to be a brokers then investor.
Reason why i say they may be ‘not clean’. UAG saga started in End Jan. However, those broker during end feb still ask me for wine tasting and investing since they already know company has a problem at that point of time. I ask them is it sure company got has got problem in redemption? Broker Samuel told me ‘NO problem’ all settled because director not in singapore thus cheque can’t issue out on time. Still tell me most brokers and management has just came back from their overseas trip during the chinese new year period. How can be shaky and bla bla bla. Luckily, i did not digged my head deeper at that point of time.
See, brokers has saw a couple of unclaim incident still keep asking us to invest at that point of time. They give me a feeling now that they need new investor money to pay old investor. Can i say there is a possiblity they are in cahoot or maybe that brokers are super hard saleman still care for his commission although company became shaky.
Apologized about fedrick info. Was told by one of the other investor.
aiya UAG and AWI are all trying to get our hard earned money, the only issue now is how to get our money back, no point discussing who open what company and who working where now. I WANT MONEY BACK, anyone can help.
To duh_on: Question: Normally when you encounter a service issue from from anywhere. Is it the direct service staff assist you first try to claim you down or do you see the director come to you?
Netherless, brokers already get your commission should try serving you througout till your redemption. It cannot be take commission then close the door and say don’t call me again right?
If the company is a genuie company that care about reputation and has intention to operate long term will at least send representative talking to us. However, UAG did not. Now, they shut their doors easily but how about us. CAN I SHUT MY RELATIVE DOORS.
fredrick fok and stanly ex-staff of UAG open a company selling their scam idea at lavendar place 2nd floor. and that D’venture is also belong to stanly which is also joining with shaun. i hope i would tear down the two places even i might not get back the money from UAG.
angel from the sky,
What is the name of the company?
What is the name of the company and the full address?
Angel from the sky
Where is the actual location in lavendar place, whats the name and I would definitely go and take a look , at the same time most likely will see my broker from UAG hiding there. Shit them.
duh……
what will i say????? thats a tough question….. one day after i scam your money then i let you know… but firstly duh, i got a fantastic scheme guarantee u 200% returns after 20 years…. min investment 100k, wanna sign with me????
then 20 years later you will know the ans…..
with your 2nd question, i think many others have explained further to you……. and i guess u urself know the truth more than any investors here…….
Go to the office and do wat? bash them?make a scene? dont waste time and put yrself in trouble they can still report to police and sue you… To those ppls who found out about the new setup company how the hell you search in google and found out?? sorry, it seems that you know so much here and there.. abit fishy, either you are really the investor, or competitor or maybe you are just his enermy… This UAG saga will be headline soon in papers… Talking about the brokers, i feel bad for them kena cheated too. Sure damn hard to find jobs now, what i found out is that the CEO over spent his funds thats why he running away… As a stock broker if you choose the wrong time or wrong stock u burn very badly, same way as you guys choose the wrong time or wrong company to invest with… There are still so many Brokerage firm in Singapore, the best thing is to check on thier status b4 you invest… To all the shitholes who’s been blaming complaining about your investment, please wake up!! Contribute to the needy next time… lolz
Angel from the sky:
Let’s share with us where is the location of Fedrick and shaun office. And the company name. I’ll take note. See if they will to cold call me again.
Anyone visted UAG office this two days? Claimed stop operation from june 1st to 15th but till now no one pick up call. Email also bounce.
Shit. Looks like is real. Gone case
Anyone visited UAG office this 2 days?
Phone no answer, email again bounce. CLaimed will operate after 15th june but another lie.
Shit! Think really gone case.
200% gone case… anyone dare to bet against me?????
was told that the investigating officer was there with his team to retrive some documents from UAG’s office..
Angel from the sky, are you refering to 161 Lavender street, #02-03, Lavender Place?
Another wine investment company 161 Lavender street, #02-03, Lavender Place Tel: 6297 7667
Same group off “wine expert”
Thanks Jesus, are they belonging to the same UAG gang, if yes I will pay them a visit.
Oracle Wine Pte Ltd
ORACLE WINES PTE. LTD.
Can find the business profile in ACRA but need to pay $5. No money already, already cheated money from UAG.
Oracle..ok thanks . I will go and make sure they do ORAL
hi all sorry to hear about that.
i was in uag for a month + last time.
now hoping to help find solution for my group of buyers who may have come thru me.
heard stanley is consulting for fred in his new company, not sure how true.
i was con in my wedding package too up till now cant get $$$ back.
i understnad how it feels but i think dominic did it once and again, so all must comme together to stop him.
it is not a unintentionally matter but a planned “collapse” all the while from the way i see u guys posted.
my clients had bottle and guarantee return so i think i need to check with them did they manage to get their money back but i lost some of the contact.
do let me know who is still keeping track of how to get the money so i can refer them to.
for those who are still thinking of wine investment , i think u need more prayers to reach a company worth trusting for once.
i sincerely hope that you do not try out all those new company in the market. lest u want a 100% no return
Gin
Salute to you. This is what i call ex-broker responsibilities. All of us now in the same boat. No worries.
We have all join in leoster in the legal thinkie. You may consider
[‘NO problem’ all settled because director not in singapore thus cheque can’t issue out on time. Still tell me most brokers and management has just came back from their overseas trip during the chinese new year period.]
I’m not with UAG or AWI. The above quote was exactly what my broker told me when I signed to sell my collection. In the end he didn’t even put them up the sale. He was from AWI before joining this reputable company. Now he’s gone from there and selling property, and I still can’t sell my wines. Alot of these brokers do jump from one firm to another and sell the same story everytime.
Oracle Wines, Vino En Primeur, Chateau – “ex Orion’s Belt timeshare”, AWM, D’Venture Wines all related.
im an ex-officer from uag as well and left at least 2 years back. my hp has been ringing non stop and i ve been helping but there is nothing much i can do. ive been calling everyone i know and even 12deg. can anyone let me know who to contact for legal issues and the CAD officer’s contact?
thx watson_tan. I will copy the relevant contact to them.
to all, fine wine investment is really a good way to spread out your risk and balance your investment portfolio.
but i think from my experience is that it be best to buy in bottle form and store through a 3rd party.
else if you really invest into any other things which are on “papers” only, the best way is to check if the company is registered and how much did they use to start up the company.
cause a lot of them are $10 company and empty shell.
If they are being sue their owner may not be affected…
the pte ltd are protected…
cause from experience is that even if we go thru small claim or case, we may not get our $$$ back. in my case, the court can’t even send out the court order??? =( as the wedding provider had already closed down!! and i am in a poor state now…
last but not least do not commit to wedding package unless you are going to use it now! (a bit side track)
I suggest your lodge a police report to http://www.spf.gov.sg/ePCLink.htm
All can see our broker(my is fedrick) would help us at all.
Sorry typo error should be ” all can see our broker “won’t” help us.
They only know how to earn our hard earning money.
Gin: Do you know the warehouses where UAG stores their clients’ wines under the buyback contracts? In the contracts the wines are supposed to be stored in XII Degrees but they’re not there. If buyers can trace the wines and establish ownership it will be useful for them. Unless there are no wines to begin with or the wines are all lumped together (not separated into individual owners).
oh many good posts.
GIN… i really have to thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge by being an ex wine broker…… your true words are extremley important for the investors affected…….
not like many brokers or “Fake investors” still trying to say good things abt their companies here…. haha…… these ppl are idiots….. like watson said…. i salute u also……………..
(sidetrack a bit) hmmm didnt know that wedding package also got scam…. pretty interesting how these scammers came up with new package or scheme for all kinds of business…….
Tom on June 19th, 2009 at 10:00 am
Oracle Wines, Vino En Primeur, Chateau – “ex Orion’s Belt timeshare”, AWM, D’Venture Wines all related.
wow tom, didnt know they are such a big family……..
probably the wedding company who scam gin is one of their family members also……
Gin
Thanks for the info, too late for me. i should have bought the physical wine than the ‘stupid’ buy back scheme. ..haiz….i really can’t believe all this scam exist in Singapore. Times share / sunshine empire/ Uag /wedding package and should have many more coming.
Disappointed!!!
hi gin u joined uag only last year? pls help, i used to be there n i know some wines definitely reached singapore shores. i arranged it! but when i called 12deg on behalf of some clients, 12deg say there are not there! but i am pretty sure they were transferred from toll zenecon.
any possibility the physical bottles are held by 12deg cos they are not paid as well?
shucks….
Dominic Sim address – 50, Water Terrace, Lor Chuan. See if you can get him there. His parents and brother Dino Sim are still staying there. It is a rented property not owned.
It is logical that clients go after the source whcih is the CEO of UAG and rather blaming and slandering brokers n staff of UAG scamming your money. UAG failed to pay our salary last month. We staff n brokers are victims too. When approached Dom’s mum, who is also a director of UAG, she refused to sign the pay cheques for us citing Dom did not give instructions.
ex-officer, the wines that this group is talking about is not physical bts but buy back portfolio that we do not know whether Dominic and Gavin have paid or even ordered. You are helpful but you can’t do much. The missing link is Dominic Sim and the directors.
Gin, we have discussed among staff n brokers and we do not think that this is a planned scam. All this while payout was made to clients for buy backs and physical wines did arrive into the warehouse. The likely possibility is Dom has used the funds into other investment like Grand Sapphire or his gambling spree and has misappropriate comapny’s funds and landed us in the current state. He is cause of the trouble.
Clients, please make your follow up action with CAD Insp Ho like what we have done. By taking action against DOM & the directors whom have cheated our money is the only way to resolve this matter. There is no point blaming brokers and staff because we could not help at all.
Wine, for your further speculation, PLA is the actual mastermind behind the companies Tom has mentioned & also the wedding planner company that cheated on Gin and the group behind all these is actually the former SUNSHINE EMPIRE GROUP. Believe it or not but this info is juicy for you to input saucy and slandering remarks in this forum.
ex-uag staff, you smart alec. know a lot, talk so much. you yourself are a CHEAT. all UAG brokers including management like gavin and chung are well aware of this scheme. all have benefited from it. all lying brokers who never go to school, some not even o level, remember who gave you the opportunity to buy your house and car. earn big money in UAG and now when all go wrong push the blame to Dominic. ungrateful bunch of nitwitts. retribution for all who are involved in this will come soon.. including those brokers pretending to be remorseful. IF SO REMORSEFUL AND WANT TO HELP YOUR CLIENTS, SELL YOUR BMWs and PAY IT BACK TO YOUR CLIENTS. STUPID. Some smart devils, open same companies to do same old shit and cheat more people again.
heard dominic is back, rented a place somewhere else. his number change to 94899053. called him and caught him by surprise.
Hi wine,
thanks. on the wedding scam is real. so sian. my lawyer say is not worth suing. moreover i so broke can’t even fork out lawyer fees. hee hee
hi ex officer,
i didn’t know about toll zenecon cause i started that time with 12 degrees. moreover back than the wine physical bottles i sold haven’t come in yet thus i didn’t arrange.
hi ex uag staff,
i think maybe u r kept in the dark, i believe some of the management staff do know. cause i happen to know someone who brought my attention to aztech(hope i spell correctly)after that, apparently the former management of aztech like dominic + dino + gavin (hope i didn’t remember wrongly) were doing this again. i believe those pp who were in uag long enough like stanley + shawn + fredrick already knew. they just got to constantly bring in new blood to the company to sell it. now that i look back, i think they are all waiting for the bubble to burst only…. and to think the parents of dominic also know of what happen can still allow their son to do something like this.
to top management,
i think you could be dominic in disguise, i can’t think of any broker who are remorseful yet earn a bmw fm uag. cause those who earn a bmw should still be doing it like gavin / fredrick / stanley.
but for those who made a few thousands out of survival and after that realise, i think they should have already left even before this whole matter surfaces / could have even provided help previously. maybe dominic is not the only one who benefitted, but it is only logical for pp to curse him after what he has done to so many pp, to get easy money out of pp’s hard earn money and to benefitted the most (example bentley – if i spell correctly)maybe, maybe part of the reason for his succeeding scam is bacause there’s a factor of greed in everyone but that DON’T GIVE HIM THE LICENSE TO CHEAT PEOPLE (same goes to those who are still doing it). spare a thought for others, and also for your own love ones (they may not get cheated but something bad may happen to them because of your bad deeds) (the same to my wedding provider!!!, i hope he change for the better. not to cheat another poor fellow)
last but not least to dominic parents,
please encourage dominic to stand out and return the money to the poor investors, my clients trusted me to invest but now i can’t even face them as a person… he is still young, in future you want his son to learn from him also???
sorry to all who are reading, my own
sorry to all who are reading, my own comments…
Hi Gin, you seems to know many wine brokers in UAG. Do you know Karen Lim? How long has she been working in UAG?
gin…..and ex uag staff
wow….. i didnt know that even dominic parent is a director of this company and many other things u or ex uag staff mention, i believe many investors dunno also……
its really good to have someone from inside to share the real truth with all of us,,,,so we dun have to keep on guessing……..
like what gin said, these ppl have earning big bucks from others hard earned money…….
and hmmmmmm u think dom parents will encourage him to step down?????? they may be the real mastermind teaching him how to do business, i mean they are the directors???????? wow, and they are earning big bucks without doing anything……. why not right?????
yah hope his son learn from him, then one day cheat his own dad all everything he has …… this will be the best retribution hahahah cheated by own son…….
same here sorry to all reading… just some comments………..
but i guess investors wont get annoyed by our comments lah gin…… those who get annoyed are yah the scammerrs…….
or someone from the so called “TOP MANAGEMENT” or “CONMENS SITTING ON TOP”
.
Watch this last sentence from top management…. ”
“Some smart devils, open same companies to do same old shit and cheat more people again.
”
.
What does this tell all of you investors, all new companies are opened by these some smart devils…. to do same old shit and cheat more ppl again………………… so you wanna get cheated again???????????
or too much money to spare??????
easy, go Invest in wine……..
but nonononono …. if you really too much money, how abt give me half lah…… i treat u wine to drink……
gin: if you really so innocent, why hide behind a nick. post your name in full. can’t face your client then pay them back yourself. reap what you sow.
if you feel cheated. go ntuc buy a $20 bottle of wine and drink it. think that you are drinking your fine wine you bought with them. wine all taste the same, after all, all grape juice. Some grape juice in ntuc sell for only $2, $3. Why some buy $2 and others buy $1000 grape juice? at the end of the day, all end up as urine.
why not buy $1000 shampoo instead of $1000 grape juice?
dventurewine.net
come here and invest your leftover money. confirm $ in good hands. dventurewine.net
yah yah confirm its another scam…. one look at the website and u will know its scam
by the way.. its so obvious that top management , sunshine empire and wine. are the same person using different nicks………
another broker who turned mad and crazy after scamming too many ppl perhaps….
just like what happen to someone from previous posts…… or are you that same person…… yah probably right……….
wine on
i think you are probably right. that few posts could be the same person. Can think of why are they so supportive to a ridiculous crap ‘Top management’. Must be the same person. ‘TOP Managment’ seems to be ‘really’ top management. Know so well about the ppl in UAG.
Top Managment
Are you one of the few driving BMW. If you really know that its a scam all along, you should come out and point your finger at Dominic and gangs. You can help all of us ya…Hopefully ASP Ho can ask you out for coffee after check your IP address.
Gin
Don’t be agitate by them. I think you will have supporter. Cheers. We need more insider info. Thanks for the contribution.
dunno how long these have been,
http://www.mymagnumclub.com/
and grand sapphire thing belong to uag also……. wonder how many have been cheated again………
and i have tot that dventure is related also, however seem that dventure is also related to awm…..
hmmmmm
and vino en primeur seem related to awm as well,
so does that means all these 4 companies are related one way or another…..
so with ex uag staff and gin helping to share the truth……
thanks them again
will we have ex staff from other companies to share the truth as well????????????
any one from awi, pla, awm, equity, profiters, winei, who else, now got so many i also lost count haha…….
are all the these companies in singapore all related ?????????????????????? same scam group ???????????????
fake investors pls dun waste ur time lah… ur posts are very obvious one….. fakers…..
if i am an investor now, i will never never ever invest with any of these companies ……… think all are from the same group of scammers…….
like what ex uag staff mentioned……. all from sunshine empire???????????
or other timeshare scam like aztech etc etc…….
so what next????
wedding scam the next trend????????????
hi gin, dat means im way before ur time. our time are all physical btls except for one en-premiur for colonial estate if i rem correctly.
for the scammers, i knw who u r and u knw who i am. cos im really obvious here oredi. i dun care wad u r doing. i juz wanna help a fren and sm whom had bought the physical btls n are unable to get it out frm 12deg.
12deg is not being helpful and they are darn rude. anyone contacted them at all?
top management,
i don’t deny that back than i earn a few k. like what i mentioned.
i think my retribution is the wedding scam (sob sob) it cost a few k as well….
i use gin cause Gin is a spirit flavoured with juniper berries. that’s all.
angry man,
i wasn’t sure of other brokers name as it has been quite long since i was there.
watson,
i know i will get arrow when i post… i won’t be agitated. i just hope that we all learn and move on after everything got settle….
ex officer,
i took so long to reply one tread cause tied up with work.
that you already posted.
i think you before me. 12 degrees got dread down by uag i think they also very trouble, i won’t be surprise if they rude.
your clients got any document from uag previously? i think pass to lawyer for advise better. free short legal consultant can be made through legal bureau (i think something like this, can’t recall names, memory failing me) located at small claim court. than they will arrange for free legal consultation with voluntary lawyers for you at cc or places like this. if claim against uag for money i think lesser hope (just like my wedding scam) but claim against 12 degree (if uag really submt before, and you got the document proof) maybe higher chance…. i hope. (no guarantee, just providing a alternate way) cause engage a lawyer very expensive, end of day if your outgoing can’t even bring any returns from your investment, will end up spend more…. =(
Top mgmt really do sounds like Dominic. Seems he got pissed after address was published online.
Concerned Invester,
The no is not Dominic new no. I ran thru my contact list, it belongs to a ex-brokerage staff. Dominic number is 9790 7094 but he is not picking up calls. It will need the police and CAD to track him.
Ginn,
Part of your info is correct. Dom, Gavin, Dino r from Aztech but not Shawn n Fred. Fred came in UAG as a new broker just like you. Dino being a SIM started as sales manager. There is always new blood is bcos some brokers cant take no basic pay job and substain full comms hence have to leave. The wine portfolio be it physical or buy back, the selling price, coms %, buy back % were set by Dom and Gavin. Managers n brokers need to understand the portfolio details and present n sell accordingly.
Top Mgmt – CEO
I am no smart alec but a victim. Give us back our pay. Since you default the payment to clients, you do not appear in office and leave it to the brokers and staff to handle unhappy clients. You do not give direction neither answer to the situation and leave us in a lurch and now calling us CHEATS. The staff takes a fix salary, brokers earn less than 10% of the sales without basic while u earning hi income n with the directors took all the 90% and now not delivering wines to clients. Who is the real CHEAT? What happen to the books no one knows except u and the directors.
Wine,
we are a group of victims. We r really frustrated with the situation. Things will not improve neither is comforting with all your speculation. I have no comments of all the other companies policy and operation but what we want is to find the directors of uag to answer to us so that we know what is going on next. U sitting on the fence n all cool comments only rub salt to our wounds.
For all the readers here, Dominic is still away, he is not in Singapore. The whole thing is in a big mess, you think he want to return to face the music?
ex uag staff,
i mentioned ex management dom / dino / gavin.
i didn’t say fred n shawn.
but i did mention fred n stanley doing in another new company( quite reliable news)
Gin
Think Fred n stanley in set up Oracle as posted earlier
I think all info can be found in last 5days posted.
Oracle set up by Fred and stanley
Shawn set up d’venture with other 4 directors.
Comfirm shawn set up d’venture with other 4 directors. I have called in to checked and requested shawn to answer my call. However, receptionist claimed he will not comment anything since he left UAG.
is stanley and fred company also doing the same kind of scamming? i received a call from dventure, same sales pitch as uag.
hI Mary, I received a call too. According to the investors here, they are all the same,DVenture,oracle,chateau,awm..look at what WINE say…all related scam. Dont believe them anymore.
Hi all, juz to share my knowledge on UAG.
The Master mind behind of all these “buy back scam” was Stanley (Regional GM).
DS is just brainless puppet who only sees $$. (Controlled by Stanley)
(If you know the cartoon, “Brainy and Pinky”, Stanley is the Brainy and DS is Pinky)
Shawn / Dino / Fred (Sales Managers) are the executors.
Brokers are just any employee on the street trying to earn a decent living by doing their job order by the management. (Brokers are also “conned” into the job)
The high turnover of brokers was becos’ some brokers saw the shitty things UAG was up to and decide to leave.
Yes, many rouge brokers did benefit from the scam. I do know Shawn drives a BM now… Fred earned enough comm to set up a company, while Dino.. well.. earned enough $$ to spend on drugs…
The top management? Well, as many had mentioned, buy cars, gamble, spent on women and drinking….
Well, by the end of the day, Brainy survives another day… run away from all the shit and setting up another scam… His favorite pharse: “I want to conquer the world”
quite true…
just shareshare,
You are all for DS and the UAG directors and 1 name was missing hence making me suspect that you are either SIM himself or Gavin Santa Maria, ex CFO and director of UAG.
All staff in UAG and clients who are affected by the buyback know that DS is the key missing link in this saga. According to CAD Insp Ho, he is missing and not even taking up CAD’s call. Missing! We approached SIM senior (mum) for our payroll and she does not even entertain us. So is this also Stanley’s scamming plan? I am sure it is not.
During my time in UAG I only see that DS and Gavin are the only one controlling the books and cheques. Our payroll cheques are all signed by these 2 only. We have kept chasing DS for payment to our marketing project suppliers like printers, event organisers but everytime he will push to Gavin and Gavin taichi to DS. Stan and the managers do not have access to payout.
In the month of March n April,DS hardly come in to office. He has called for meeting with all staff but keep postponing and did not turn up in office. It was Stan, Fred & all brokers worked together to handle clients’ matters. There was a client (a lady) who came to office everyday with her austic son to wait for Dominic. It was Stan, Fred and staff who attend to her daily. Our receptionist and all staff can confirmed what I said was true. After Stan, Fred left, we the admin staff handle all the clients matter and DS never appear in the office. And then there goes our pay as well.
I do not agree that brokers left UAG because they know shitty things UAG is up to. Everything was well all this while till after CNY where DS announced to all staff that there will be a delay in buy back payout for some of the labels bt not all. Then things became worse when many clients do not agree with the delay payout. Even we bring it up to DS about clients’ legal demand to UAG on breach of Agreement but he just dont bother. It was brokers and our PR Exe who replied to clients’ queries.
No comments on Shawn’s car, Dino’s druggie deal and Fred’s biz.
All I know the one who cause all this mess is Dominic Sim and the directors and not Stan, Shawn, Fred, brokers and staff of UAG.
Dominic, return us our pay.
Watson_tan,
Can you illustrate further what scam is Dventure n Oracle selling? Buy back wine portfolios? U spoken to them and they sell you buy back wines?
Also have you check and confirm the directors of Dventure and Oracle? How you know they have 4 directors?
It is important for us to know and not based on hear say again. Much damages had happened to all of us and dont wish to be harm further. So far, I find what ex-officer, ex uag staff and gin are the few that input better info about the situation as compared to all others.
Hi guys,
i was trying to read about the posted oil articles when “Justshareshare’s” posting caught my attention…
Names were called like nobody’s biz and the name Shawn made me read on…. If i’m not wrong, I know the exact guys are talking about… I have a friend who is a EX UAG’s broker and i used to hang out with them quite often…
To my understanding, Shawn does drive a BM…. But what has it got to do with you? Ple may be starving/eating BREAD ONLY everyday just to drive a BM….You are linking anything and everything to wine investements and claim that these ple used the “CHEATED” money to buy BM…. What about DS? nothing against him?
We all know that he is the CEO of UAG and who else(except the board of directors (DS’ mum/G/DS))but DS can control/make decisions/sign the authorised signature on the dotted lines? you CLAIMED that DS is a puppet? Oh come on, you fool!(i din noe puppet is financially capable of changing cars so often)Brokers are CONNED into the job? (does DS keeps their passport to prevent them from leaving?(like how we keep our maids’))
Out of curiousity, how do you know so much about UAG(the female broker used to tell me alot about her work, tts why i can comment abit about this wine investment thingy)? You used to work for them? Or you are part of the top mgt?
To my knowledge, Shawn/Dino/Fred are the managers(correct)… Brokers are just any employee on the street trying to earn a decent living by doing their job order by the management(correct)….Stanley(Brainy) is not the controller (according to my friend)… She told me the board of directors call the shot in UAG… no1 else… but DS normally dun appear in the office…
Initially my friend earn quite a fair bit from her sales and she said that her clients did also benefited from the “packages” they signed up with her…But things turn sour when the buy back scheme was intro-ed…
my friend commented that this whole idea of the buy back scheme was introduced by the board of directors(i do not know how true it is, but i do not see why she wana lie about it)… and she as the broker is also unsure if the wines are physically there…she related that this Brainy is kinda nice who tried to extend his helping hands to the clients who came up to the office demanding for money…Shawn was asked to leave… and Dino vanished… Fred left his manager post(set up his own CLEAN investment firm)….n my friend got dishearted(quite alot of calls and ple appearing demanding for money) and she left her post.. She did not even receive her salary for the last 2 mths…
I’m expressing my views, hoping that the guns are pointed at the right person… i pray CAD can track CONman-DOMinic down and he kena the SOWS THAT HE REAPED…n pay my friend her deserved salary…
I read from papers and online forums, alot of discussionss about their guaranteed profits and paybacks…. Some really benefited from this investment and of course, some are “cheated”… From all the written materials, one can only conclude that the “buy back sheme” does not work… in fact, it is DEFINETLY a fraud…
From this fraud, people then linked all sorts of wine investments to this failed scheme and labelled all wine investments as FRAUDS… those who did benefit from these investments, i urge you to stand up and tell these people about your earnings…
Actually, I invested 10K in 2007 with my friend( EX UAG broker) and i withdraw from the investments (due to financial diffficulties) in Aug 2008… i did earn from there (although not alot)..
Not long after i invested the 10K(8 crates of profitable wines), this guy proposed the buy back scheme to me… saying that the returns are guaranteed and higher… but i did not go for it due to the cash flow problems (luckily i did not, if not CONman DOMinic will be spending my money in Thailand and China)
I’ve read thro all these postings and i particularly like and agree with AKELA’s comments…the way this guy/gal commented is so true…his comments are objective and impartial….most of the postings here are staing only the negatives…
Hence, i would like to advise all guys out here….most of the investements are REAL(it is just you know how to invest or not)… not all wine investments are fraud(jsut some black sheeps around), like what most of you claimed….and the employees are really innocent…
Biobography:
My friend (ex Broker of
FYI:
The name of the cartoon is PINKY AND THE BRAIN (not Brainy)
Hi Justshareshare,
I refer to your insinuation against Stanley.
I sincerely and gentle would like to remind you that slandering of any form is not recommended, especially if one does not have the cold hard facts, such as in the case of Dominic Sim’s scam using UAG.
If there were not facts to back those accusations against Sim up, I believe the CAD wouldn’t be so bored as to pursue a worthless cause anyway.
With all deference to the hapless portrayal of Stanley’s ‘fault’ in your post, I hope you can reconsider your words in future by stepping out of the picture and thinking OBJECTIVELY before causing dissension amongst the investors, who are victims and already feeling the pain of the burn.
Fine wine investment has been a subject studied closely by me due to a certain heritage of mine and I understand that because of one or two black sheeps, the entire worthy cause of the sound investment vehicle is being damaged.
As such, even though I firmly still believe in fine wine investment with sound brokerages and firms (such as the one the Queen of England herself is investing in; please check on Google, it’s accessible info), I will not blatantly put myself within a picture here by defending the whole thing as I empathise with burnt investors
This is called objective thinking.
I will not be surprised if yourself might (keyword being ‘might’, which means unconfirmed, unaccusatory suggestion) be, as one of the following posters mentioned, to be one of the two names mentioned.
Investors, I gently advise you to read every thread with a pinch of salt especially when it comes to words that might just be dirt being rubbed into your raw wounds, because I do not condone people who take advantage of your situation by:
1) advertising their own companies for their own benefit amidst this treachery committed
2) causing further dissension by carelessly and negligently throwing words around, caution to the wind and hurting burnt victims more
Salve is needed for eyes to be opened, medication needed for raw wounds to be treated, and as such, I conclude that careless words and slanderous accusations are NOT the way of either remedy.
I will not be surprised if any lawyer might be monitoring this forum in watch of possibly negligent remarks.
Keyword again, being ‘might’.
Thank you, and a good day to all.
I officially bow out from the forums on this note, and wish you all well.
Be blessed, you will be in my prayers.
Regards,
Elisha
Piggy, fred’s company clean? You WISH. stupid. Go and get yourself conned yet again.
I’ve been monitoring this forum for awhile and it is really amusing watching all the management and brokers like me pretending to be investers and washing their dirty linen in this forum. I’m quite sure that justshareshare is one of the SIMS, Elisha is stan or fred and piggy is shawn. Gavin is obviously not posting here cause he is too stupid and didn’t study enough to learn how to use a computer.
Eric On
I think you did not read the post clearly. I did not say the new company comfirm ‘Scam’. I say i called in to comfirm d’venture set up by shawn and other 4 directors. Do feel free to call in and check dude.
Just shareshare /Piggy/ Elisha
You are not an investor. You are somehow relate to the person that all of us commented on. Save your breath.
watson
well , seems like you are the only real investor……. and someone not related to any of the brokers or management or directors or whatever….. so i just comment for you….. ok i may be wrong …. maybe u are a broker like the rest…….
anyway, you say u dun wish to be harm further….. what do u think its the best way for not being harm further?????
by investing more of your hard – earned money to test out other wine investment companies whether they are scam???????
worth the risk?????? come on….
if you dun wana learn after one lesson, then go ahead and probably you will finally learn after the 2nd , 3rd , 4th , 5th lessoon or probably until u are left with debts or $0 in ur bank…….
doesnt mean only buy back scheme is scam
do u wanna trust someone who set up a new company, and this someone came from a previous scam company???????
well i can only say so much for you…. its ur money anyway…..
for me . i will never ever trust any investment companies especially those newly set up ……
those with more than 10 years history with proven track records , i will at least research more abt on them, speak with their previous real investors, see if their wine prices is good etc etc etc………………
so any real investor wanna trust any more investment scheme or plan or timeshare, or landbanking or whatever investment ……….
well good luck and dun come back here crying when u found out u got cheated again…… cos u choose to take the risk of being cheated………..
and i agree with some comments here that wine can still be a very good investment…….
provided u invest with a good real trustworthy company, or u can just do ur own investment like our very own famous wine connoisseur, Dr N K Yong….
he is one of the most influential wine person in ASIA….. do u wanna trust him or some sales person?????? make ur judgement,….
and this is the latest article he wrote for business times……
ALL INVESTORS PLS READ ….
http://www.asiaone.com/Business/My%2BMoney/Building%2BYour%2BNest%2BEgg/Investments%2BAnd%2BSavings/Story/A1Story20090529-144884.html
one quote from him:
“Personally I prefer the DIY approach. One has to remember that you are paying money to the directors/managers of the fund to administer your money.”
i would rather be like him to invest in DIY approach, do my own research learning, buy my own wines, find my own storage, and then sell myself through auctions or merchant…….. at least any mistake i make is my own……
i dun have to depend on some “EXPERT SALES MAN ” OR “CONMAN”, who will keep telling you the wines they are offering you now is the BEST WINE and NOW IS THE BEST TIME,
then after u buy this wine,
next week or next month, another BEST WINE AND NOW IS THE BEST TIME……….. DUN WAIT, blablabal shit SALES LINE……
so conclusion is wine is still a good investment…………………………
thats why ppl are making use of this concept to scams millions of dollars…….
there are still good companies around…….. but who is good??????
do u know?????
i dun dare to risk my life savings to try try and test test…….
u dare????? go ahead and good luck……
if not….. take ur time…. research ,,,, and DIY urself….
no time???? dun invest
warren buffett dun become a billionaire by investing with some “EXPERT SALESMAN:”
he did his own research and invest based on his own thinking………
u wanna learn from a real successful investor or u wanna learn and listen to a succesfful SALES MAN (Who dun make money by investing, but make most of his money by getting u to invest….)
so once again good luck to all investors……….
to the real investors who was affected, or who dunno they are affected now, and probably in future will find out, i can only wish u good luck once again……..
i can’t agree more with wine
once bitten twice shy, twice bitten never try or should i say if you really want to try must go for older company with more track record (not saying they won’t go burst) but at least there is something to refer to (well not indicative of future performance though)
in a investment, play safe and you earn little (i mean we learn fm insurance) and end up we want to try the riskier ones… (in hope for higher returns)
end of day think twice if you still want to have some money in ur pocket. esp a time like this.
Reply pertaining to
quote
DominicSim on June 24th, 2009 at 1:16 am
Piggy, fred’s company clean? You WISH. stupid. Go and get yourself conned yet again.
unquote
whoever you are… but pls be matured and do not call names here… on what basis are you commenting about his company? Have you invested with them? Or have you been conned by them? I bet you did neither of the mentioned…YOU WERE MERELY LABELLING THE NEW COMPANY…
Reply pertaining to
quote
GrinningBroker on June 24th, 2009 at 1:23 am
I’m quite sure that justshareshare is one of the SIMS, Elisha is stan or fred and piggy is shawn. Gavin is obviously not posting here cause he is too stupid and didn’t study enough to learn how to use a computer.
unquote
This is just another example of someone ignorant trying to act smart (gei kiang).. I’m not Shawn nor am I Stan/Fred/Sim/Gavin… (if i’m shawn, i will boast about my car, instead of typing there” Ple may be starving/eating BREAD ONLY everyday just to drive a BM….You are linking anything and everything to wine investements and claim that these ple used the “CHEATED” money to buy BM…. ” do you read with your eyes open?
Reply pertaining to
quote
Watson_Tan on June 24th, 2009 at 1:48 am
Just shareshare /Piggy/ Elisha
You are not an investor. You are somehow relate to the person that all of us commented on. Save your breath.
unquote
You are so right, I’m not a full time investor… and i bet you are not too… INVESTORS STUDY BEFORE INVESTING.. I BET YOU DIN’T…
As written earlier on, I’ve made myself very clear…
quote
I’m expressing my views, hoping that the guns are pointed at the right person… i pray CAD can track CONman-DOMinic down and he kena the SOWS THAT HE REAPED…n pay my friend her deserved salary…
unquote
I’m not trying to cover anyone’s ass here (Watson, you are too sensitve)
Whatever it is, i’m just trying to clear the air and be objective here… I sympatise the majority out here who were deceived and conned by CON-DOM.. even the employees too… they did not get their deserved pay (basis salary)….
Most impt to to track him down… not setting up forums and GOSSIP about it and labelling all wine investments as scams and frauds … I do think all of you deserved to get back your promised money if not at least the physical wine (so you can drink / sell it)…
*all the best*
I think those who left the UAG and set up the new wine company is retarded, who will buy from them? no body will trust them. They are ‘digging their own grave’
They should put more effort to help their victims to GET back their money, if they have a conscience.
I believe what goes around comes arounds=)
The people that makes money… wants to make more money… The people that lost money… wants to make back the lost money… It seems investment is only a legal word for gambling…
Piggy, fred’s coy probably scam cause con man who work for con coy will forever be a conster. A leopard will never change it spots. You are so protective of Fred, makes me wonder if you are fred behind the keyboard. why? veli scared you can’t con anyone anymore?
give me back my money.
I used my father (who is now 88) money about 10K for investment, Just because I belive my broker. Now I not only loss 10K is total 20K, cos I need to return $ to him. I am very poor now!
To Wine on /Eric On
What happen to both of you. I did not comment this sentence.
‘anyway, you say u dun wish to be harm further….. what do u think its the best way for not being harm further?????’
Can you pls check my post from 16 jun til today. Too confused by the sudden flood of posts?? Haiz…
Guys the only way not to get con again is to avoid calls from which ever company that setup recently.Stay away from them especially if your previous broker were to call you again or other company stating that they will help sort out your UAG wines, these are all sales tactics.Just Let the CAD handle.
Someone here also mentioned those new company news here, just avoid any of these. Check their company back ground, paid up capital, the name of the person that registered, how long history the have,check with case if any complaint of these company before , how many different company is register in the same address….end of the day, I just have to say AVOID THEM>
yah watson, sorry typo error…..
its for eric……
anyway that post is meant for all real investors, or anyone thinking of investing now………
i will nail all involved in this. The Sims, Gavin, Stan, Shawn and Fred. All will have the same fate very soon.
Guys, my advice, to get your money back on these wines investment or timeshare deals, just report your case along with the other victims to CAD immediately! Do not hesitate or go through any other firms!
Listen, this is important, when timeshare people earn their money from that industry, they setup companies claiming to help you sell your timeshares. Again they con your money to invest further. After which, they could not help you after 1-2years, they closed down, they set up other companies like wine investment firms and such and calling victims or new prospects up for wine investments and use that 1-2year period that investors have invested money with them to spend on luxury items or to roll to another company whatever it can be in the future.
Why fall into the same trap?
If these so-called investment are really worthy, why aren’t the banks doing it? Think before you invest in anything. Why use money to cover the mistakes you have made years back hoping to gain back the loss?
Think, like when you apply for credit card with any bank, probably only that specific bank will call you up for other respective products because they have your database.
But these investments be it timeshare, wine and such, if 1 company closed down, how would it be possible for another competitor company or so-called authorities to call you up again for another investment? Unless, these people behind are all inter-linked. Isn’t it true?
If you have any timeshare calls or wine investment calls, before you invest, please do a check on the respective company, the directors behind the company, the date of the startup, the capital paidup. Don’t be the next victims. After you paid that small little amount to check on them, you will realise the truth behind all these companies. You can spend thousands to invest, why can’t spend a few days and pay the small fee to do the necessary checks before being the next victims?
Why rush into the investment on the very day just like Timeshare tactics. Listen! All i can say, most of all these firms who just call you up for investment or state they have freebies or you have won prizes and such. Why believe?! Listen, Greed is the main reasons they see in most investors, that is why more n more such people in these industries see it as an opportunity to earn big bucks by opening new firms when they failed to deliver what they promise to the customers, they shut their doors, and operate in another venue and another name. Why let them continue to cheat more and more people.
Final Advice, if you ever pick up these calls, AVOID them, Slammed down their calls, when nobody invest anymore or patronize their business, they will slowly disappear in the market. These people behind these firms basically need your money to roll their luxuries, this is all I have to say…
god have eyes,
Every investment company including “Bank” also doing the samething.
The database is passing around from Bank A to Bank B.
DS is Dominic Sim? Or Dino Sim? hmm…
Hi Vroom , What ever DS , Inspector Ho say will nail all sims..read the posting.
By the way , so any one got received call from CAD or not. i waiting for news still..looks like we wont get back the money already.
resigned to fate.
Yup. I did read everything. I read up quite alot on wine investment online and all. but never heard of guarantee buy back things or such. but they do have en primeur which is something like the buy back scheme. but not guaranteed. its simply just investing in the wines when its in the fermentation period right? then when it goes into the bottle, u can choose to keep it for a longer period till it’s price rise up even more. so Dom made use of this and made it into a time shares thing? it could be right?
my friend apparently invested in the buy back thing. that’s why i want to find out more. he is quite a close friend to me. we know each other for 14 years already. so hence i come in here and busybody abit. my apologies. he did receive a call from some recovery company (cant recall the company’s name). from what i saw in here, i am even more worried for him. do help me out here before he makes a decision to ask that recovery company to help. i thank u guys in advance.
but also i find it quite weird cause when UAG cease operation, and Dom disappeared, then suddenly this recovery company starts. a bit weird dont u guys think so? like as if the recovery company also belongs to him. its like how that company knows who the clients of UAG is? and at the same time when UAG ceased operation, they start this nonsense company. hmm… weird…
agree?
Peanuts,
Are you seriously believe the Inspector Ho is CAD Insp Ho himself? Pls call CAD Insp Ho and find out from him directly.
Watson_Tan,Peanuts,Wine
The reason I am asking because there is a differece between ‘these companies has 4 directors’ (general info) and “they are all the same,DVenture,oracle,chateau,awm..look at what WINE say…all related scam “(warning). Hence we have to get our facts right.
I am a UAG client since 2007. I have more than 100 bt of wines in 12Degrees, 2007 en primeur while my buy back was due in late 2008 and was paid by uag without delay. Now likely my 2007 en primeur is in trouble.
Another reason I am asking you is because the info given by many people in this forum is not exactly what I have experienced. Many including yourself cliams that yr broker do not take your calls. Fyi, since UAG problem arised, it was my ex broker (whose name was mentioned by some of you here) who keep me update on the progress. After UAG ceased operation on 16th Jun, he has written to all his clients (cc to all)and informed us about Global Capital Recovery. He warned us about this company and do not fall into their scam. One of his client went to visit GCR and wrote an email to all to update us on his experience and told us to ignore this company. My broker also helped us to arrange for 12degrees and I have gotten my Inventory Report and sorted out my new storage arrangement with XII. He also advised us on making police report, provide Insp Ho contact number for us to liaise with CAD. I have also received an acknowledgement letter from the police on my reporting. He also liaised with clients who wanted to take legal action against UAG and one of us have taken the lead to form a group for legal action. The only outstanding thing now is waiting for CAD report on the en primeur for me and the buyback portfolio for others. We has since communicating among clients because he has provided us the email address contacts. Hence I would like to say a fair statement that my broker has been helpful and did assist us with what he can do even he has left UAG. We have >70 clients in that email blast. I believed we are all his direct clients. It is an unfortunate incident that UAG failed but obviously it is the doing of the directors of the company and not the brokers or staff. There is no point to vent yr anger here and putting forth remarks that do not help the current situation. For those that have wines with 12degrees I would suggest that you make arrangement directly with 12degrees and sort out the administration. For those that have not make a police report pls do so as well. As for legal action, I will not do so because I do not want to put good money into bad money as we are not sure if uag can afford to pay for all the damages.
Eric
i cannot deny there may be good eggs amount the bad. Maybe you can advised me on the broker’s name. However, i have view through the whole forum again and i realise that except for the few directors. Name: Sky/Fedrick/Samuel being mentioned the most. I think you are refering to one of them right. Sky and samuel i don’t think they have 70 clientbase. You should be referring to fedrick. Then i can only say you are really the lucky few. To my understanding, yes he did help some but around mar, he stop picking up calls(Maybe due to overwhelming complaint that can’t handle anymore). Thanks to other investor info, manage to find out Sky working in taka wine company at Bino, claimed to help at first but did not revert. i intend to go down check with him again. As for legal action. Can’t deny there is cost involve. Thats the reason all of us pool together to minize it. Its of course up to individual decision. Since we are all victims, still i want to wish all of us good luck. ‘Anyone out there, if you manage to claim anything pls notify us’
Hi Piggy, on your posting on June 23rd, 2009 at 11:03 pm, you mentioned that you have a lady friend who has since left UAG, may I know who is she?
she is stan
Today, I was doing housekeeping and found a copy of pdf printout on Today newspaper on 14 January 2009 on UAG advertisement on ‘Stand a chance to win instant CASH Prizes!’ sms contest.
The telephone to sms to is 9231 9207.
I participated in this sms contest, didn’t win but was contacted by my wine broker, Karen Lim.
Does anyone know Karen Lim? She told me that she worked in UAG for six years and that she was the only female wine broker in UAG.
It seems that she not only lied to me that she worked there for six years because UAG hadn’t have six years record of operation and that there was some other female wine brokers.
Does anyone know Karen Lim? Anyone here wine portfolio handled by her?
my broker name is mentioned that cannot be contacted,but it is not true. he always response my call and sms.uplated the lattest new through e mail
To bok,
I suppose it depends on how much you invested and how the broker believe your potential. They will continue provide good service to those they believe have potential to further invest…
Dear All
I have just checked the newly opened wine investment company details.
All of them are registered under very very young names, the paid up capital all very low. I am sure all those in the board of directors are ‘Tua Pek Kong” ( Get Paid To register names ). i WONT fall for it again.
All this scammer , return my money and our money.Dominic, Stanley, Shawn,Fred, SKy ETC….
Be realistic, all investors you think those idiotic bastard or who are involved in this scam will pay you back, My only wish is to see those involve got caught and sentences to 150 years. Dun blame others for scolding, because you guys deserve, you know what you have done, u can lie to everyone in the world but no GOD. investors just tell your self those people are son of bitch they are not humans have the heart to cheat but dun dare to admit call themselves man? rather better hid under the pussy. how long can they hid? I will pray one day one of their family members wll get con and they will know how it feels for their love one to get CON. Till that day Come i shall pray, because my friend was a victim, he needs the money now that he is retrench, but what to do, DOM if u are still a man who cares for your mum, and love one come and answer
Ya..get those CONMAN arrested. They did everything with planning.Just like some of the blogger mentioned here, how can the new company that was setup by stanley,shawn,fred,sky or whatever new company and etc company has the data base of UAG clients.They definitely are link together.I have received phone calls from Dventure brokers stating that they will help with my investment with UAG, bullshit..everything is bullshit.They trying to con me again and I am not stupid.I hope that those brokers or bosses of those new company who is reading this messages here will have some HEART and not carry on cheating people money.What goes around comes around.We are also not stupid here and we have done research on New Setup companies…guys dont cheat again.
Ya…People please listen! Do not fall for all these tricks. These peoples are only trying to scams you all over again. From everyone involve in this UAG saga the CONMAN have move to another company. They are all using dirty business! I am going to go after them. I will sue them for all the wrongs they have done. I will get them to jail!
Those guilty and responsible in the UAG saga not only need to go to jail, hopefully they can receive canning also. Wine brokers are a bunch of cockroaches.
Update to all
I have contacted asp ho and currently UAG CEO dominic is finally under arrest warrent for commercial fraud. Immigration last record in Hong Kong. Our money comfirm gone already. For clarification, please call asp Ho or email him if require. If anyone happen to know any update news, please post here. Thanks
To Wine Peanut Tom and Eric
How come only Dventures,Orcle,AWM,Vino En Primeur are related to each other as i check all got different reg acra… How the hell you know this kinda of information, or unless u guys are from the same related line of Timeshare b4?? LGM?? Fook u guys spamming about la.. u too cheat ppl then you talk cock for what!! we know who you are, bullshitting around.. Get a life, investors wont have time to complain or spamming around here all go police report or CAD… farking hell you got guts just go down their office lor.. then let us everyone here know what you have done maybe go invite journalist to interview those scammers… Full of Shit in your brains…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/oct/19/scamsandfraud
very similar news to wine scams in singapore…….
“telephone con artists” haha nice descriptions of these idiotics scammers……
lets hope all these scammers will be jailed or scammed by the king of scammers…… and be bankrupt… lose their family, house, cars, all these are bought by others money anyway….
so bad luck to u scammers, and i know u are reading these and proud of being a scammer….. be careful when u cross the road…. god will punish u ……
To Wine,Peanut,Eric,Tom, please explaine what scamprofiters mentioned??
Today i am so happy finally madoff got 150 Years =) I hope when the authority get hold of him all those responsible will get 150 years in jail… Meanwhile i will let everyone knows that wine investment can never be trusted at all.. I am puzzled if DOM was involved in Aztex Int’l, How can the authority let such a CON man open another company… Dear fellows victims kindly let all your love one friends know about this scam as i will…
To all victims… my friend and i have discuss with our lawyers and the result is 99.9% our money will be gone and its not likely to gain if u went for class suit as the outcome is 100% UAG is gone, 100% creditors will get the asset, we will just have to wait and file as creditors.. i was suprised that UAG also owns 12 degress money… UAand those culprit u know who u are. i will pray hard to GOD that nothing good will come to you people….
To all investor dun every invest in WINE INVESTMENT
I still very much prefer stock investment because the Control is on my hands and is much more transparent. Stocks provide dividend and you can always hold on to stocks even in a bear market, you just wait for the market to recover. Don’t need to keep asking my wine broker when can I see my wine in the warehouse, don’t need to beg them to sell. I am not a stock market expert, I also lost more than 5K due to expiry of warrant more than ten years ago. Recently also lost a few thousands trading in warrant. But I am not angry but for wine investment, I am a very Angry_Man because I was con and cheated!
Is there a way to contact inspector Ho besides his email address? An answer from him will be more accurate rather than reading in this forum.
To Stupid
What is Aztex Int’l, what they doing …is the company still open??
Is Dominic the boss there too?? Where is it ??
piggy, you have no right to judge anyone who critise Fred, or other ex-employee of UAG, we are the victims, do u know how hard its for us to save this amount and do u know how much this means to others ! you keep telling others not to slander ex UAG staff companies what i think they are right.. GUYS I support you, and i will tell THE WHOLE WORLD who are UAG ex employees whether they choose to believe in their company is their choice I will tell them my experience , and who are UAG ex employees piggy do u think its wrong to do that.. THE WORLD has the right to know right.. U scare they dun have business is it HAHA!
To peanut
YA Aztex is a time-share its close heard that a lot of investors are affected and according its seems that DOM is the person in charge and i did ask ASP HO
Piggy i begin to wonder that u have an interest in their business.. U scare that we spoilt their rice bowl ???? u have the guts come out and confront who are and not just sit there and act noble telling people be objective and defend UAG ex staff… BULL-SHIT just wait u lost that amount of money and think in other people shoes.. I HATE people like u…. just sit and enjoy other people sorrow same for U Elisha, tell u guys what there is another wine company guarantee 50% return u dare to invest? I DAre u.. or u have the guts to invest in their COMPANY !!! STOP ALL THIS CRAP, u expect honest people like us who work hard for our money to get CHEAT by these people again… and let our love ones or other innocent get hurt.. I will definately paste poster around my neighhood and tell about Wine investment and other ex-employees setting up company whether they believe its up to them!
i will definitely write to case to ask them to keep an eye on these companies to safe-guard all consumer rights and i want to know why if DOM is the in charge of AZtex and why if this company is in trouble why they allow him to register another company…
other investors, who have storage with 12 degree its seems that UAG has owned them 8 months storage fees, my advise is i think 12 degree is also frustrated , for me i will bear the cost as if you think of it the cost of wine is more than the storage cost and moreover we are at the losing end unless u can find buyer.. i just want to let the dust settle. do keep urself update with UAG status by logging in to company registry once if the creditors come after the ASSET seek your lawyer to file urself as one of the creditors and it will safe u the legal fees so when comes to liquidate ur interest are considered
thks
To all culprits, i dun know who u are but u know who u are.. i wonder whether u are given birth by your parents, u people have a heart? are u people beast or what. We are just pure investors, we can accept losses in pure investment not scam , fraud, like other investment we know there is risk but the risk involve FRAUD?? piggy please think did UAG web site or terms and conditions states that losses is also inclusive of SCAM, i can accept losses if wine prices depreciate but not to CHEATERS PIGGY sometimes i think u are really a PIG that have no brain
To : mini mi
u can contact inspector HO @ 65575459
Sad to see that wine investment become another timeshare.
Suddenly came out so many small little wine investment company using timeshare re-sale method to cheat the investors.
I received email from Fred, saying that he is talking to Shawn and trying to come out with a plan to help investors from UAG..hmmm I find it rather suspicious of the letter i received, BUT IN THE FIRST PLACE
HOw Fred and Shawn got UAG clients data base, DID they plan it with Dominic or are they another scammer who stole data from UAG?? I would stay away mysekf from any new form company and also UAG ex staff. Once bitten twice shy. Fred and shawn or stanley, if u r reading this, please think for your family, do not try old tricks on us again. retribution will come one day ,if u care for your family ,please stop if u have the intention. Today is Dominic being wanted, 1 day it will be your turn,think before u execute.
samuel, you are probably right, fred, shawn, stan are all scammers. now that dominic is avoiding everyone, once the rest have their fair share and squeeze out every possible cent from all investors, they will close down too. reliable sources have told me that the whole group was seen drinking together at a ktv recently. they will get their retribution 1 day…
Maybe we should email the reporter who write and expose UAG news in the paper to write about all this new setup company, also write about our feeling and how we suspect all this new company who was setup recently, this will definitely bring awareness to the singapore public. I am sure with this, all the scammer will be no far from running away or close their company. any one here got better idea
Hi Guys,
So anyone has any bad experience with AWI? They always show the profits from other investors and such, claiming the storage fees included for 3 yrs and such. I have checked out the price against their offer price, its lower than market price or online merchants even before the online merchants adding their shipping costs. Same vintage bottle like the 2005 Elderton “Command” Shiraz offering to investors at S$90 with 3 yrs storage.
They are asking me to invest with them. Robert Parker ratings of 97 has just be released.
Desmond & TOM
Despite your busy schedule. I must say thank you for your updates all along regards to UAG. You have been helpful throughout. Appreciate….I shall see you there for the meeting this sat 4 jul. Thanks for arranging such an important meeting for all feeling ‘loss’ victims.
Hi Mickel
AWI..thats one of the worst I have heard. I invested with UAG because my friends told me not to invest with AWI, they have invested for long time and till now still couldnt sell their wine.AWI keep giving time excuses not to sell.My friends and his friends has met up with the Director in their office many times , still cant sell the wine. AWI only keen in asking them to buy and buy.In fact they have also gone to CASE and report and thinking of going to MAS or CAD now.Recently from this website they also found out that the BOSS of AWI has actually done a scam in australia before, some investors has also posted the link here. If you want, try checking the past post or you can google for Jeremy Kasler and U will be able to see the article on the scam done.What a sad country singapore is becoming,more and more scammer around and nothing has been done.Hope all this bastard will get karma and arrested and retribution .
Peanut
AWI has been around since 2002,and in this thread, you are the first mentioning about them as the worst, other’s has been complaining about UAG mostly. And some even commented that their friends did make some profit refer to SK on February 7th, 2009 at 3:34 am
What worst stories have you heard? Can you share with me, I read the article about the Jeremy Kasler and that is one of my concerns.
And your friends has been with them for a long time, how long is that? How much have they pumped in ?
Hi Mickel
My friend and his friends has done all ways to try to get awi to sell, but till now no news. total is 5 of them which come to lot of money from what i know.AWI keep changing brokers one after another, they have conclude no more investing with awi.now they are only waiting, after uag case,all of them are afraid that awi will goes into the same .moreever after reading about the scam that AWI boss has done previously in australia,that make them more worried. I was lucky that i didnt invest with awi, but unlucky when i invest with uag.If u talking about returns from awi, haha some even 1-3 % after such along time of investment …what a joke.They also tried many times to want to meet the boss of awi, but from what they told me, the boss hasnt been in singapore for a long long time and this make them more worried.
Guys, what you all say about AWI is so true. I have a Australian friend who got scam into timeshare by the company that Jeremy Kasler ,the boss of AWI setup in australia years back. Good luck to all the investors of AWI. Wonder will he scam again in singapore.
Dear all
Friday Chinese TV channel will talk about wine scam..must be UAG la. Good , so more people will know about it and all this new company.HOpe all close down. After the interview comes out, i guess more people will be aware. GOOD, so glad. finally justice comes
good. hope all the scam wine company gets featured. maybe should even show shawn / fred & stan’s face on TV so that people will throw rotten eggs at them when they are seen walking around.
Peanut, may i ask which chinese channel (ch 8 or ch u) and wat time will it be on??
I guess the programme is Frontline on Ch 8 at 10.30pm. My friend told me about it.
REALLY STUPID,
I think u have left out the important name – DOMINIC SIM. To me, the culprit is Dominic Sim and the directors and no one else. The one that owe us salary is UAG not anyone else. The one who mis apporiate the UAG funds and on the run is Dominic Sim not others. If other staff are involved, the order of arrest will be for those names that u mentioned as well and not just Dominic Sim.
This Friday 10.30pm on 8.
Is Fine Wine Investment Risk-free?: Recently, a group of disgruntled investors lodged police reports against a fine wine investment company for delaying payouts amounting to more than a thousand dollars per investor. One of them is a 61-year-old man who had taken up two investment schemes which matured in March and May respectively. To date, he has not received his principal sum and profits, nor has he been able to reach the management of the company. What are the risk factors involved in new and “alternative” investment instruments such as this? Before investing, what should an investor take note of? Who should be responsible if the investment goes wrong? Frontline reports.Producer: Dawn Khoo
http://8.mediacorptv.sg/tvguide.aspx?kw=tvschedule#TOPDAYSBAR
Hi Guys,
Just in case you want to know how dominic sim look like. You can visit this site.
http://ads1.shareinvestor.com/email/20082406_nextmove/
ex uag staff,
why are you so defensive? READ properly. i said show shawn / fred & stan’s face on TV. that already means to include dominic. i’m sure that the warrant of arrest for the rest of the gang will come soon.
Fred
http://www.investorexpo.com.my/images/speaker_Frederick.jpg
Stan
http://profile.ak.facebook.com/v229/1627/38/q616932778_2962.jpg
Dominic
http://ads1.shareinvestor.com/email/20082406_nextmove/dominic.jpg
really stupid,
If the police need to arrest that gang, they dont even need a warrant. Because this people is not on the run. Just an order of arrest will settle the problem. If u dont believe, call ASP Ho and ask him why CAD did not arrest Stan, Fred, Shawn since they are still in Singapore. It is only your wishful thinking. It does not work your way.
This Forum seems to become interesting, got photos to view. By the way, anyone knows whether is Dominic married? He got over 600 friends from all over the World in his facebook, looks like a playboy to me.
ex uag staff, the answer is because Dominic is the owner of the company. His name appear inside the ROC or ACRA. CAD did not arrest Stan, Fred and Shawn doesn;t mean they don;t involve into the scam. One of them can be the master mind and the rest can be the executors. All of them benefit from the scam. Of course Dominic got bigger share or profit from the scam. Because he is taking the risk of using his own name to do it. “High risk high returns” – “Low risk low returns”
Angry Man, how do you know Dominic have over 600 friends from all over the world from his facebook? Are you one of his “friend” inside the facebook as well?
Is it really true that Dominic has been arrested by CAD or is it rumours?
dom divorce with a kid
stan married
gavin married with a baby
fred married with kid
shawn single
anyone can update me tomorro detail n meeting place?
person of contact n number?
thank you.
Dear All
Are u all going to the meeting…after i received Fred email , I would not even bother to go. Please guys, these are people that work top management in UAG, dont tell me they dont know what UAG is up to in the beginning. Secondly , why do they have our data base, DO NOT forget, they left UAG before it was close….DONT YOU ALL THINK IT IS FISHY. They will try to scam us again. I would suggest not to go.
What meeting??
Dear S
You mean you dont know that fred is liasing with Shawn to call investors of UAG for meeting, trying to “HELP” Hahha. I wont even bother to attend.
They are using timeshare re-sale method to cheat more money.
Do take note that Orions Belt Network Pte Ltd “Timeshare company” has been served an injunction order by the Court. Please refer to the Straits Times article on 3rd October 2006.
Orions Belt Network is related to Chateau, Vino En Primeur and Oracle Wines.
Ros..
How do you know Orions Belt Network is link to Chateau,Vino En primeur and Oracle??? Who is the boss?? Dominic ?? Stanley?? Fred ?? Or Shawn?? Singapore is become a place for all this Illegal scam, WHY ?? Why cant someone do something to stop all this scam company ??? WHY
peanuts
What meeting? How come you have the info of the meeting while I didnt get any email on that? No one call me up to ask for meeting? when & where?
Dear Eric
Organised by Fred and Shawn la, they say will call us or get this gal Lynn to contact us. But i wont bother about the meeting, I agreed with what Peanut says, they wont do something that will not benefit them. Its abit ‘fishy” on the meeting.
If you want to know more, call Frderick, you might get con again.good luck.
By the way Ros,how come there are so many company that are link?/ How you found out??
jackson/Ros
how come u have so much details about UAG and even know how they share the profits %? Is what ur saying facts or plain speculation? If u have all these facts why dun u contact ASP Ho and report this case? If what you said is not factual, then what is the point of posting speculation that have no contribution to this matter.
So many ‘insight’ info given by people here about company connected to another company and I wonder why are you people here is so resourceful.
It does not seems that you guys are UAG victims because if ur so resourceful about the background of these companies and the people operating the business, ur not lkely to be victims. And if ur not victims, why are u posting all these info here? To rub salt to our wounds to show that ur smarter? If all that you are saying is true, then report to police and seek justice done. If you are neither, please do us a favor, stay out and let the police to assist us to get this matter cleared. Your input does not do us any good or make us feel any better.
heard that dominic is arrested already. true????
Mickey/Peanut,
I am not sure about you but I managed to recover my buy back stock 60bt back in my inventory in XII and will transfer all my 240 bts to my personal account.
You can say all you want about Fred but without his assistance and advice, I will not be able to get things done all by myself. Have you actually spoken to him? Do you know what did he offer? Did he sell you a scam buyback plan again? If he did, you can always report to ASP Ho.
For me, in a situation like this, I just listen first and use wisdom to discern what is appopriate and what is not. Whether be it gain or loss, the choice is still yours.
Hi Vick
Fred is just doing something that you dont know. If you are a smart investors, all you need to do is get the letter that UAG gave you about the bottle wines you bought and go down to XII degree and they will transfer that to you name, many of us has done that too. But with the guarantee return,you claime thaat U manage to recover you buy back??? HOw??Scan your paper that XII degree gave you and show to us here, no way anything can be done, its only that you didnt read the post here, thats why you think Fred has done alot for you. come on, why did fred open another company and calling UAG clients, how did he get all our data, THINK Vick…you think he do it for free…Most Important is HE IS THE TOP MANAGEMENT of UAG, DO YOU THINK HE DONT KNOW WHAT DOMINIC IS DOING, same goes to stan or shawn…IF U want to listen, its up to you, i basically think that alot of us here will NOT believed and WILL NOT even bother what he can do.HE IS NO SAINT, unless you are another fake investors here trying to say good things about him. Dont waste your time posting here as wehave info that the next one that CAD will go after is the TOP MANAGEMENT of UAG.I really think that you are another FOS.
Hi Vick , I agreed with Peanut, if you really are, please STOP it, I have lost alot of my money and do not want to here and bullshit here , i expect something relistic and advice. My wife has not got to know about the UAG investment goes bust, if she hear it from her friends or from the news , I am in deep shit.
up to this point still got ppl fighting for justice for these scammers…… haha …. all nonsense….
lets hope all these scammers get arrested first before they explore more scam business or other markets…..
and to the scammers and fake investors again…… careful when u are walking…. maybe u will just fall down and ….. welll guess ur luck after that ……. god will give you a nice surprise…
vick on
I don’t know how true is your info in retrieving your buy back wine. According to most of us here. All our wine under en primer wine that require 3 yrs min to bottle up like lafie 06,07 and etc. The next earliest batch of physical wine could be only october 09. I check with XII. There is no forcast of UAG wine received since last year aug 08. And Dominic opened a wine storage account but did not even place order on our wine at overseas at all, thats why classified as fraud.
Quite surpise of your claims when in the first place no wine ordered. What wine did you actually buy? Kind to share. I also aliaise with Fred. No news.
Finally meaning this Vick is another asshole from the scammer group trying to say good words about the scammer. What a sad group all these scammer?? Stay away from the discussion please.
Peanuts
My batch is due in Jan 09 with 12mths 10%, optional 24mths 22%. UAG did not make the payment to me despite following up with them. Till today, no payment was made. But it was a blessing that this batch of stock is in XII. Believe it if you want to and please do not make it sound as if you are the only victim in this event.
Watson,
I understand that there are different batches of wines. I do not have en premiur but I have another buy back due in May 09. But this stock is not in XII. I bought my wines from a broker but he has left sometime ago. I emailed Fred the details and he asked me to check with XII on invetory and the Jan buyback wines are there. I believe if my wines are there, some clients with the same batch will have their stock as well. It couldn’t be me alone. I am asking him for assistance as he will know the details better than I do. Unlike what Peanut said, when I spoke to Fred, he did not sell me anything. You spoken to him? did he sell you anything?
As for the May batch, I have made the police report and wiating for reply. You are right to say that I may be lucky but I still have buyback not accountable for.
Kt Ng,
Thanks for the namecalling. I will stay away as I dont see why I should be called an asshole when I provide some info that some may be benefit from it.
One-eye jack supposedly donated his kidney before he died, and that supposedly saved someone.
Is he a saint?
who the hell is one-eyed jack?
Dear all,
unfortunately I am another victam of the Buy Back Scheme. Plus I have another 6 bottles under their En Primeur scheme.
I was contacted in May 2009 to sign the same form which states payment would be made in 60 days which has expired. My doubt arised when I checked their website and saw the closure due to internal technical issues. Checked their office and found it closed, put up for lease by a real estate company. My predicament was confirmed only yesterday night when I saw the program on Channel U.
If my wine is still with 12deg. Can I take back possesion?
To all/Vick
You can in fact check your wine exisitance whether is it with XII deg. If yes may still have chance. Check with them if it is solely under your name alone or if your wine happen to also fall under another investor account. If single, hopefully can retrieve. If duplicate wine under different name, no hope.
Chances not very high for investors retrieval of wine through XII deg especially NOW because UAG owe XII deg. Thus, they are not going to release the wine until they are instructed by ASP HO.
I think for buyback, the wine is supposingly to be before bottle…
vick u need to check if the wine mention on ur buybk contract is it the same name as what “fred” help u retrieve…
for all u know he just give u any kind of low budget wine.
- my 2 cents
cause even in the first growth, they got different grade…
i mean example not all rolex is a $50k rolex
gin,
As there is not many female brokers in uag in the past, I think I know who ur (apart from Debbie there is only you). During your few months in uag, You may have sold some en primeur but later batch there r different labels and not en primeur launched after u left.
XII inventory report has a LOT No that XII has to answer to Customs and not just to clients. It is naive for you to say that ‘he just give u any kind of low budget wine’. Please do not give wrong info here to confuse others and inject uncertainties. I dont have to be in the brokerage but still know first growth means first growth, 5 labels only and there is no different grade of first growth only different vintages. I dont think Fred can ‘retrieve’ the stock if they are not in, but he can advise his clients on those labels that was sold and their possible availability in XII deg.
Watson,
Same LOT of wines can be allocated to different people but stock will tally. Vick could be correct to say that his stock is in because early batch buyback is in XII. But the later buyback and en primeur are not in yet.
Frontline report is so brief. Also did not cover the staff is also affected. Does it means only investors are victims while we r not? We lost our pay too.
A point to add. I checked UAG on ARCA and saw the paid up capital of $200,000. That gave me the confidence that they would be around long enough to make good on their contracts. Look what happened. But 12deg on the other hand, has a paid up capital $2. But they’re around… still…
ex usg staff
All investor suppose to receive inventory list from XII deg on a monthly basis. However according to XII deg, since Aug 08 there have been a new contract with UAG that XII will NOT be sending direct to customer but to UAG instead. Because of such an arrangement, UAG abuse it by just opened XII deg storage wine account but consistent reallocate the same LOT wine to diff customer. Under the contractal term with UAG, in order for us to retrieve our wine direct from XII Deg, we will need UAG acknowledgement before we can take back our wine from XII degree. UAG now has since stop operation and with owing XII Deg, no one can retrieve any wine from them at this point of time.
According to majority post. They repeatly say SOME brokers shall also be held responsible due to ethics issue. You may not be in, so no need to be too sensitive.
ex usg staff
According to some investors during dissusion through emails, during begining april 09, UAG receptionist Nurbee lie to some of us that there are no brokers around already only the pecurment department left. Can you explained why during April and May 09, there are still ‘new victims’ transacted with UAG wine brokers. I am quite doubtful whether is it all brokers salary not being paid Or only some(Collabration)?
1. First Nurbee lie.
2. Despite many unclaimed incidents but brokers still carry on mislead new clients on investing during APRIL and MAY 09 ( ‘so-call’ not being paid. Doubtful?).
Thats why these victims from April and May 09 considering suing Nurbee and some brokers.
Hi ex uag staff,
maybe i didn’t phrase it correctly,
that is first growth family also got low end wine.
i didn’t mean the first growth themselves….
i need to stress again i used gin caused i like the word gin.
i think u may have misunderstood my identity. pls do not mention other broker names because u want to act righteous. if u realise only top managements have been mentioned, caused it is logical to assume they can’t be so retarded not to realise the conspirarcy
and like i say is my 2 cents. not trying to cause uncertainties.
the worst thing that can happen is that after con you still get con again just that in another form.
i certainly believe that there may be brokers that are not paid but as for higher management, i believe they also don’t have to be a genius to know what is happening. it is a choice about what they want eventually.
to say that they got nothing to do with it, total rubbish.
u get what i mean?
if u think i am naive, maybe
but i read through all the past threads u posted, you have been very defensive and i believe a lot of times it is over the name fred or stan.
if not mistaken u r either one of them. why still defending? cause u want ur reputation to continue ur conning business???
u match whatever u have mentioned… certainly not lying but just withhelding the whole truth.
even if u win the conversation in this forum, you lost your conscience in the process.
by the way u mentioned in one of your threads that brokers discussed among themselves, about the scam, certainly for normal brokers they maybe wonder what happen, as for the rest of the management, my bold statement would be they are in disguise. acting as if they are a victim but i actual fact they were prepared for this, just wanting to earn as much as they could.
if u r a victim, in investment or in ur pay, u would feel like how the rest did and not trying to defend in one way or another.
i saw that there are threads that “scold” u but i believe too that they are “smoke” bombs u threw out to hide ur identity and intention.
i think it is only natural for dom to be on the run and hiding somewhere to enjoy his money. whether rich or poor he don’t have to care about the forum. and because of this, pp like you come in to smoke us and to build ur own reputation.
i am angry cause it cost me the trust pp have for me.
i am in no position to condemn you but i hope that u don’t try to do such a foolish thing again, to speak up for the scammers.
my 2 cents again
Dear All especially to Fred Stan Dom Shawn or whoever those wine investment company management or brokers here.
I would advised all of the investors to spread news about all these people and new companies, tell your friends , relatives to be aware of all these people and new wine companies, LET ALL these companies close down so that they will not have any more new victims falling into their traps.
Its has been mentioned that these UAG management already married and got kids, 1 days when their children goes to school and will be ask by the other kids why your father is scamming people money.Think for your children and STOP all these wine scam.1 day when your name and pictures being published in the News Paper or Internet, your father, mother, wife, kids, relative will be sad and how can they face the world.
LOOK AT DOMINIC parents now, they are living in Shame now,both the sons are involved in scam and on the run, they are going to live with it all their life,investors are going after his parents for money,staff of UAG also going after them for pay. If you really think for your family,do STOP scamming.For all those new company who is trying and thinking of scamming, these will happen to your family too.
DOMINIC, if you still love your family,come and face the law and pay us all back our investment.
Gin
What I have posted is what I have seen and know during my employment with UAG compared to what you know in your short employment with UAG. Ur such a genius as you can see that this company is scammer and left within 2 mths while we continue this ‘scamming’ job and now we lost our pay. Defending? We can’t even defend ourselves. Only staff with lower than 2K income can launched MOM report. The rest of staff are all helpless. CPF also not contributed but our Mar & Apr employee’s deduction was all made. Idiot! Many people like you who are not involved or affected directly by this issue but started making ‘bold’ & 2cents worth of statements to make it sounds as if ur so affected just like us. But in fact you are not.
I agreed with Ng, those scammer bettter STOP or your family will suffer.
Hi Mr Ng , well said.
By the way all investors, i just got information that some investors has voice out to ASP HO about those new companies, dont think they can operate for long.
Hi ex uag staff,
in case for those who feel that the both of us who are turning this into a personal issue,
i just clarify for the last time.
i left cause for a job offer. not because i foresee, i must admit.
i pity sincere brokers who lost their pay like you, (unless u r stan or fred in disguise)
i just hope that investors don’t get con again.
rgds
i just checked, stan / fred / shawn company all $1 paid up capital biz. watch out guys! don’t fall into their traps yet again. we’ve lost enough.
Hi Vick and those that Fred called for meeting,
I think reasons why Fred invite you people for meeting but not others could be Fred see the “potential” of you guys being his clients again (if phase nicely). If I phrased it nasty, Fred believe you guys could be stupid again to be conned exploiting your weakness of dreaming if getting something back from UAG. Sorry if I am rude. Insp Ho (CAD) has advised not have have hope to be able to get anything back from UAG and also not to go for lawsuits as it will be throwing good money after bad nmoney. Interesting hor, Fred and gang will be able to do help you get back something while CAD and laywers are helpless..I believe we should face the reality and just bite the bullet for the loss, why want to kana conned by them again..
Hi Vick,
For your info, I trying contacting Fred since May and could not reach him. Based on advise of some forumers, I called 12 degrees, got my inventory report and transferred my wines into my personal account within 2 weeks. I nned not pay back the storage fees that UAG owes 12 degress, because I moved fast and not depending on Fred. Now you have to pay $10 for the report (I got it free) and paid the outstanding owed bun UAG. Think!! if Fred is sincere in helping, why wait will his new company is setup? Where you transfer your wine : personal account in 12 degrees or the wine storage “recommended” by Fred which is cheaper as it provide corporate rate? is it a corporate-personal account just like UAG-personal account. Just think, where is Fred when we need him when the UAG saga started? When I managed to get him sometimes late may, Fred told me that he has left UAG and nothing much he could do and he is in the midst of setting up his own company. He even told me that why I so stupid to transfer the wine in 12 degrees to my personal account in 12 degrees since I have 3 years’ free storage from UAG and there is no difference between them. Now he advised us to transfer and even offers corporate rate. I just dun understand why you so still gullible after experiencing UAG. Just think, where is Fred when the saga started and why he reappeared and offered help to us only after he setup his company !!! Open your eye big big and think and you will be safe from these conman..If you want to trust them, go ahead and give them your hard-earned money..I believe they can survive their “trades” until today because there are people like you supporting them..
ginger,
You sure? I did an ACRA check too. Not similar with what you mentioned.
Hi Watson,
How do you know that there are UAG victims from April and May 09, are they victims of buy back scheme also?
James,
Thank you for your mail. But the info I got from XII is different from what you mentioned. This was what XII replied to me. I have took away the figures as that was my own confidential data.
The following are the applicable charges:
For Withdrawal of Wines from XII Deg – UAG Account
Handling Fee for Withdrawal of X x 75cl equivalent bottles: S$X
Documentation Fee for Declaration of Removal (RM) or Duty Payment (DP) Permit: S$ 50.00
Unpaid Storage Owed by UAG since Nov 2008 till June 09: S$Y
Total Fees Payable for Withdrawal: S$X+Y+$50 (excl. GST)
Additional Items Not Included in Above:
Duty Payment and Import GST (applicable for de-bonding only): To be advised.
For Deposit of Wines into XII Deg Private Account (Only applicable if the wines are to be deposited into XII Deg)
Account Opening Fee: NIL
Handling Fee for Deposit of X x 75cl equivalent bottles: S$X
Storage Fee for July 2009 for X x 75cl equivalent bottles: S$Y
Total Fees Payable for Deposit: S$X+Y (excl. GST)
You may be right that XII did not charge in the beginning so ur lucky. But I am not sure if they will charge you the outstanding should you decide to withdraw the wines. But i am relieved that at least one of my batch of buyback wines is still in the warehouse rather than all is lost like the en primeur.
So whats the latest on the meeting with Fred, any follow up from fellow investors here?? Hope No one got con into coming out with more money again here.
Angry_Man
From asp Ho and also through the meeting on 4 jul. It happened that one victim from april 09 came. Her investmnent under the physical wine not buy-back scheme.
I am surprise that there are victims after me because I thought I was the last victim already. UAG bank in my cheque at the end of March. Mine is physical wine and I think her wine is the same kind of wine as mine. I never see my wine because the paper work for account opening was not done and UAG was closed down already. My wine broker purposely delayed the whole process. The account opening form can be sent to me easily by email upon my payment to UAG but was only sent to me in May, one and a half month later, was definitely done on purpose. Why my wine broker want to do this kind of things, she didn’t know UAG has problems and yet claimed that she worked there for seven years? I really doubt that she was not paid commission or pay. If she didn’t receive commission or pay, why she want to do this kind of things?
in conclusion after all these postings,
wine investment in singapore is a scam…….. do not trust any companies whether they are here 10 years or 1 month……
all probably just jump from one company to another……setting up one after another………….
remember……. why is scammers and conmens so successful…..
because of ppl’s greed…… tot can earn easy and fast money…………
madofff scammed millions and millions and millions of dollars…..
wine investment ard the world also scam millions and millions and millions of dollars……..
go hongkong auction, call the auction houses, i have only seen REAL PRIVATE COLLECTORS selling their wines for profits…..
I have never heard any wine investment companies in singapore selling their wines in auctions houses before………..
so where do they sell their wines?
simple, they sell to new investors………
or there is no wines at all………………
so dun trust any singapore wine investment companies……
lastly, not just wine….. many many more scams coming up…..
land banking, mlm, time share, wedding packages, whatever travel or leisure membership industry, gold, other new funny funny stuff…………
for those who dun agree with what i write, pls dun waste time to start commenting,…..
u dun agree, go put in ur hard earned money and invest in any of the above……. and dun come back crying when u get conned again……. god will only laugh at ur stupidity……..
devil will laugh together with god…..
noone can help u…. except urself…..
good luck investors…. and bad luck to scammers…..
look up when u are walking, something may just fall from above…..
take note all investors with awi and pla…….
i just found out another interesting news………… guesss what …. ceo eldric ko of pla was a broker from awi………
these was told to me by someone who invested with eldric while he was in awi years ago………
now if we keep on linking …. i think all brokers from all wine investment companies in singapore are somehow related and linked from some kind of suspicious background………
there will be an investment exhibition from 18-19july and 22-23 august…..
think awi and pla will be there and of cos uag is gone for good………
i will definitely get my friends who invested with both companies to go down and ask them good questions during their seminars…………..
these will surely create great awareness for all those listeners at the seminars………
lets share these will all ur friends who invested with them and warn them to stop investing more of their hard – earned money……………..
now, im am wondering more and more if there is any real wine investment company in singapore………
come on, brokers from awi and pla, wanna start defending your company?????????????
I read today ST report with sadness. History is going to repeat. This is exactly what happened to Aztex 2 years ago. The case will close after Aztex/UAG ignore CASE warning. The longer the case drat the better for Dom Sim can use the time to profit himself. The victims will lose their resolve after sometime. Dom Sim is quietly laughing all the way to the bank. We can only hope the government will take up the case and scrutize their accounts. Jail him for 150 years as a warning to all scammers.
Hi Victor,
You are right, I did the transfer very early. Initially, 12 degrees not so helpful saying that it will take instructions from UAG for withdrawal of wine and it is not supposed to liases with me directly. I said that I could not contact UAG and hope 12D can help me as I intend to transferred to own personal account in 12D and not to another warehouse. 12D became very helpful, giving an inventory report free within the day, give me the transfer forms etc, all done within a week. The charges you quoted are the same for me except that I need not pay outstanding of UAG. If you transfer to another wine storage, you also need to pay 12D the withdrawal fees and pay the other wine storage company permit fees and deposit fees and also trasport fees for bring the wine from 12D to the new location.
Wine On
What’s the venue of The investment exhibition. Maybe going down as well.
Hi, hope that all this wine investment company will get a visit from the police to check on them. Recently my friend found out that AWI bought their wine from Hock Tong Bee and then sell to investors, dont know how true it is, anyone can verify??
Hi Samuel,
Not surprised. It was discovered that UAG bought wine from Hock Tong Bee and sell to investors. The worst part of this is that UAG did not pay in full for these wines and some investors caught in the situation where physical wines in 12 degress but not fully paid and HTB is seeking payment directly from investors.
All scams by these so-called wine investment company..
Hi James
That is no different from clients going to HTB and buy at lower price. How can all this wine investment company do that?? I wonder when will the government look into that.
interestingly in the original article “The interesting thing about wine investment is if they ever fail to work out, the investor could just open up the wines and drink them up.”
Now we dont even have the physical wine to drink up. I hope the guys in UAG get what they deserve.
Samuel and James
Are you guys very sure that AWI and UAG bought wine from HTB,if thats the case, can we sue them for telling us their wines comes from winery in Australia, me and my friends have alot of Aus wine with them ? What can we do now?? They told us they got the wine from Winery direct, you guys are making me very worried with AWI now since UAG is shut. Anyone can advice me here please, will appreciate that. Thanks
Hi Kim
Yes you can sue AWI and UAG for lying about the source of their wines and also misrepresenting.Just bring the documents with you and go to the lawyer, case or CAD,lawyer will then send a letter to them and ask for prove that the wines are from winery and not other source.If all the wines that you bought are from wineries,then AWI and UAG will be able to prove from the shipping documents and transport route that in deed the wine are ship from there, if they cant prove even one of your wine, they will be in real trouble.
I’m surprized so few UAG (
kim, u wanna waste money on suing them? u think you going to get anything out of it? wake up.
watson
exhibition at suntec…..
thats how they got my contacts years ago…….
oh… never heard about this before
they got their wines from hock tong bee??????
no wonder the high markups to earn profits…..
then i began to think… hock tong bee surely know these companies are selling wine to investors to invest and not to drink………………
yet hock tong bee encourage these????? just because they are their customers????? who order large amount of wines from them???
this is going to ruin their reputation…..
just money minded……
Apologies for the truncated post, not sure what happened. I’m surprized so few UAG investors (
Can someone substantiate the HTB claim ? Interesting to note that it is their friends who told them this juicy scoop. To avoid defamation claims ?
Hi Kim Tan,
I am not sure whether AWI bought the wine from HTB. However, for UAG, the information is directly from the horses; mouth, ie 12 degrees.
I spoke to 12 degrees and was told that UAG still owes HTB money for some wines sold to investors. I was also told that 12D is asking the investors to pay for the balance before transferring the wines to their personal account. 12D is also investors to pay for outstanding storage owed by UAG since Nov. What 12D doing now to recover the money is not right. However, it indicated that UAG buying from HTB instead of directly from winery. Why? UAG’s bad reputation with winery? owing winery money, eg making partial payment only thus resulting to many wines not delivered and investors facing current problem of no phyical wines? Hope CAD Insp Ho could find the answers to all these.
Anyone can buy wine from HTB, HTB can sell to anyone as long as the buyers got the money.So it is not wrong for HTB to sell to UAG or AWI.But it is absolutely wrong for UAG and AWI to buy the wine from HTB and sell to investors claiming the wines comes from winery.
Hope inspector HO can look into this.
I thought AWI is an Australian wine investing company buy direct from Oz. Anyway advice from a wine drinker, be prepared to drink all the wines if you cannot sell your wine at the end of the day. Another think to note for everyone out there, Australian wines price don’t go up as what all these investment company tell you, due to the large production of it. So far I have not heard people making money out of Australian wine. If you are really into wine investment, buy the bordeaux 1st Growth on the exceptional vintage and the burgundy world renown DRC.
I am 100% sure that AWI has never bought any wine from HTB. If anyone is in any doubt contact HTB and they will confirm this. I think it is unfair to tar AWI with the same brush as UAG. You may be aware that AWI sent a letter to all of its clients around 3 years ago advising them to “tread with caution” when dealing with UAG. AWI has no connection with UAG or HTB and stands by its good name and its reputation for dealing honestly and fairly on behalf of its clients.
I agreed with EW. Well say.I think John is talking rubbish,I have so many wines with them, till now couldnt sell any,always change brokers,my friend who invest with them even went to ware house with the broker and say HTB words stated there together in the same ware house. Also my previous broker told me that awi sold the wine to other investors in the company and sell and sell again , its no diffrent from rolling the wine and charge higher, thats why I am not buying anymore.
IF AWI is buying from HTB, why would they fly down the wine makers/ vineyard owners from the estate to do wine tasting and dinner events? I do feel sorry for those who were caught up at UAG, but please lets not start a witch hunt and start pointing the finger at ALL BROKERS and calling them scammers
Hi Tan,
The way John writes, I believe he is somehow related to AWI..Just like some forumers who are ex-UAG staff disgusing themselves here defending/promoting UAG….now the truth is out for UAG!!!
so james i would like to know which company you invested with ? i’m also a invester PLA
They did not buy all the wines from HTB, they bought certain wines from them, if you dont believe, ask your brokers to bring you to the warehouse and see yourself.
By the way, anyone got right to buy wines from HTB, but in this case, as a investment company, buying wines from a merchant in singapore and selling to investors to invest is TOTALLY WRONG and misrepresenting. They can be SUE.
i invested with AWI 1St than pLA went to the warehouse before and after reading the mail i called them to check if there is any HTB wines there and guess what they said no because 12degree belongs to HTB.
now i am worried about PLA too because the certificate they issue is from the company not the winery. please advice what should i do
Go to Menlo and see yourself.My friend even got the pictures in his camera and decided to stop buying.
oh ok is it wine or liquor
but i also heard that pLA buys wine from HTB is it true
TAN- you can be sued for SLANDER.
Get your fact right before you accuse people while hiding in front of your computer.
i think it’s true which comany you invested with ?
hey guys what about pLA any Advise please help me i’m confuse??????
As a current non-investor who recently is thinking of maybe trying it out bcoz of the increase in public awareness lately abt the potentials of it,looking at this forum with the intention of getting some useful info,actually only confuses me more..for obvious reasons, which i believe some of u do notice it, i somehow feel that this forum simply acts as a war zone for the industry’s competitors..hope that i can see some fair judgements & genuine comments here..
My advise to you Kelvin- head down to the investor’s expo, speak to those involved face to face and bring your video camera and record it.
but only awi is there where is PLA they are not involve why????????
because of what are they link with UAG?
Hi Kelvin,
Unfortunately, I invested with UAG. My investmnent is mostly traditional wines and only one buy-back. Fortunately, I have all physically wines.
Unfortunately, I check selling price on internet and found price I bought for the wines are high and thus I may have to incurr at least 30-40% loss if sell them now.
Fortunately, with physical wines, I can drink them even if cannot sell. However, it sounds crazy drink $20K worth of wine…
Just have to blame myself for not doing enough research before jumping into this..believing the wine broker that wine will not depreciate in value and won’t loss money.
For those still beleiving that wine investment will make money, good luck and hope you won’t end up drinking your own wine..
ya i think it’s true but PLA is what i’m worried about i can’t see my wine and they issue me the certificate from the company if they fold my money will be gone .my wines are still with AWI and it’s in my name about 50k so far i have been to their wine tasting last year and i think they will be alrite ?
Hey money making opportunity!! Set up a wine investment company and buy wine on credit from HTB. Then sell to investors and then abscond once payment is receive. No need to mark up your price cos you will still make a profit as long as you don’t pay HTB in full. Ask yourself if this is possible?
Hi Thu,
This opporunity even better, dun even need to buy on credit!!!…Sell to investors a piece of paper which guarantee buy-back (BB) of 10% return in one year’s time, when due tell investor processing take 3 months for cheque…Operate for more one year and then disappear when the payments time really kick in …Just printing cost of the paper only and some mailing (may not also as now can send via email)…
After closed down, get partners to setup other companies which sell more wines to the investors promising them that can help to recover investments as well as convert BB wines into physical wines.
Going round and round, can make many many money, you know !!!
If anyone has by some chance come across this website as they are podering WINE INVESTMENTS.. take this as a warning. OBVIOUSLY there is no such thing as WINE TRADING going on in SINGAPORE.
The first thing i would do before any form of investments, is check who are those sitting at the head of the table. Good guys? or a bunch of uneducated- MONEY HUNGRY crooks, who pray on those who have studied and work hard all their lives to earn good living.
Do your research, call or email all the auction houses, storage faciilites, ect .. and find out if they do trade ANY wine in Singapore at all. As an investor you are hopeing to get your return back on your trade-off. and if there is no trading actually going on.. WELL HELLO. there you have it. Who cares if you have CRATES or BARRIQUES of wine worth X Amount. What you will be stuck with at the end of the day is wine over your head, and NO WHERE to sell.
Think about it. Who is taking your hard earned $ at the end of the day? Some ex-pat professional sales artists who have managed to squeeze alot of money out of singaporeans for the past 6 years? or some Rogue broker who left to start his own company??
The end is near for those high flying corporate theives involved, just look at the guy who recently got 150 years behind bars. If he cant escape .. you think YOU CAN? i got burnt by you guys, and i am so happy that FINALLY the attention is being drawn to lack of governement ‘supervision’ when it comes to WINE investments.
I believe in the Singapore justice system, and it wont be long untill they start placing out international arrest warrents for those corporate rats hiding in other countries, whilst reaping the rewards of other people’s loss here in Singapore.
Word of advice to those out there who are locked into it, and keep calling their brokers to sell but hear NOTHING- REPORT your case of misrepresentation to the right authorities. Once there is more public feedback, FINALLY these rotten Directors can what they deserve and NEVER be able to do business again . The only business they will be doing will be themselves, behind bars with the rest of those who harm society.
Director of Australian Wine Index (S) – Mr Jeremy Kasler, the man they will be chasing when the house of card falls. Australia government bodies have issued a warning against this guy , or doing business with him. BE WARNED!
Warning published by ASIC- Australian securities & Investments Comission. Date published : March 2000
Reference: http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/pdflib.nsf/LookupByFileName/00-115.pdf/$file/00-115.pdf
ASIC WARNS OVER TIMESHARE PROMOTERS
The Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC) today issued a warning
to investors over the activities of Tourism Advisory Group Limited UK (TAG) and Mr
Jeremy Kasler.
ASIC has become aware that TAG and Mr Kasler have been running a timeshare
rental and resale business from an office in Sydney’s Crows Nest, placing
advertisements offering to assist in the rental or resale of timeshare properties in
newspapers across Australia.
Respondents to the advertisements resided primarily in Queensland although large
numbers of enquiries originated in New South Wales and Western Australia.
ASIC is concerned that neither TAG nor Mr Kasler are licensed to deal in securities,
as units in timeshare schemes are considered securities under the Corporations Law.
TAG is also not incorporated or a registered foreign company in Australia.
ASIC NSW General Counsel Jan Redfern warned that people contracting with with
TAG and Mr Kasler may be taking unnecessary risks with their money.
“Because TAG and Mr Kasler are unlicensed and TAG is not registered in Australia,
the protection offered to consumers under the Corporations Law may be reduced.
“People purchasing or selling timeshare units can take two simple steps to protect
themselves:
· When dealing with a company that appears to be based outside of Australia, check
with ASIC to see if the company is a registered foreign company.
Well said zen, the prob is one guy goes on the run and the group of directors hide under the legal loophole and continue business as usual. Hope the government will drill UAG case down to the roots
I have reported to MAS/CASE already regarding a ‘ballot’ that was taken place in house which i won and around 15k, was then just taken directly out of my account. Yes althoughi would like to go into the so called ‘ballot’, i did not think that they would just take my money like that. To be honest , if it wasnt for this case i wouldnt have smelt the trap.
I really doubt that there is such thing as ‘ballot’ or ‘lucky draw’ for wines , it is just an in house scam to trick the cilent to load on more wines. I have since written a letter to AWI via email, demanding my money back and i would advise you all who have been tricked into buying wines from AWI to do so too.
If there IS any lucky draws or balloting, this needs to be registered with the times and conditions and there must be a licence. Any balloting that has taken place, there would be correct paper trail attached. If you are wanting to get your cash back, ask AWI for the PROOF and licence for thier in house lucky draw.
If you have been caught in this trick, you have everyright to ask for your $ back. By looking at this style of sales, i think it already says alot about the integrity of this company and exaclty what they are all about.
if all else does not work, like what others say go to suntec and confront the guy who does this to you. or else you will be calling and calling .. and no action. get your money back. its not too late.
Hi Gotcha
Don’t understand your post. What do you mean by just taken directly out of my account. Also you are not BUYING lucky draw tickets, so I don’t think a licence is required.
Another thread following this case.
http://www.lioninvestor.com/uag-wine-buyback-gone-sour/
More importantly, Dominic Sim had opened another Wine Investment Company called ”The Grand Sappire”
Please warn everyone else.
I bought from AWI since 2004 and my wines are still stuck in the warehouse. Lately their trader Andrew or Stacey verbally told me they will try to offload all my portfolio in Sept 09 as I told them I’ll get my lawyer to give them a letter or they don’t do so. Personally I find them the price they buy in is quite high, I think they are just collecting money from client from the purchase, support and fund their operation and not able to sell off the wine as what they have mentioned during the sales pitch ’3 years later we’ll sell for you at a profit’. UAG is down, the brokers are just going around to different company or setting up new one to solicit new investor funds, I have advise all my friends and clients not to touch this as an investment tool. It’s better off just by drinking the wine.
Hi Lionel,
Will AWI undload your wine in Sept09 with a profit? Or you could incurr loss? If the price you bought in is high, it is likely you will incurr losses for your wines..minus all charges etc, loss can come up to more than 30%? that the paper loss I have currently for the physical wine with UAG..
Hi iam still worried about PLA does anyone here knows about them i have already invested 100k with them . is it true that eldic koh used to be a broker of AWI ? how can i certify that the certicate they issue to me is genuine?
Hi, The Grand Sapphire is technically a travel/concierge agency of sorts especially in casinos. They have a ‘wine appreciation’ section though. Do you think that all the unsold wines are now being used for that purpose? If you check, The Grand Sapphire and UAG both share the same company address in BTH building.
Hi Micheal,
If you have read the newspaper yesterday, it mentioned that UAG owed rental for 1.5 months also, this also means that Grand Sapphire has also closed shop..
HI Lionel
My friend and I been to the office a few times to meetup this Andrew,he dont even know what he is doing, until now, our wines NOT even sold a single bottle.The article about the Director of AWI is making us more worried.He tried many times wanting to meet Jeremy Kasler,but it seems like he hasnt been in singapore for long time.
Andrew will always tell us no problem, no problem, always give us empty promises.And 1 thing they didnt know is , they tried to sell my wines to other investors, and happened that 1 of those they approach is a friend of mine, so basically we know that they are selling investors wines to other investors, trying to roll the wine from 1 investor to another investor.
We have also make a report to MAS and CAD now, so all these people will be arrested, they are gathering information now and soon we will see how AWI going to proof their innocent especially Jeremy Kasler has a record of SCAM done in Australia and Australia Government also issue a warning against him.
We are tired of going to them asking to sell the wines, now let the relevant bodies to handle.i can tell everyone here that I am really so disappointed with this investment.
well …..
from that article, very obvious jeremy kasler, awi boss is a scammer from timeshare last time in australia before he set up awi…….
so do you think this awi now is very suspicious..????……
…
andrew told my friend the same thing last year and until now the wines still are not being sold…… just fake promises as usual….
..
and eldric ko was from awi…. this is confirmed by an awi broker……
and yah awi and pla and uag are not linked cos they like to bad mouth each other………
but somehow or rather, the brokers are jumping from one company to another…….
no matter what happen…………….
wine investment in singapore is a scam…….
do not believe????? go and trust those salesman and good luck to ur hard – earned money……..
…..
and its interesting to see “Brokers” from awi trying to act as someone else defending their company like what “ex brokers or fake investors” of UAG is doing previously……….
….
i believe we will start seeing PLA brokers posting soon……..
who are you also a client of AWI maybe we can meet up and go to the office
This site is full of rubbish!
95% – people who in the same trade trying to bad mouth each other.
5% – real investor.
i think so too
My first batch of sales order was done at 5% profit and AWI was nice enough to waive off all charges. I’ve not get any confirmation price for the final batch of transaction yet.
As for Jeremy I’ll not comment as I do not deal with him personally but AWI as a whole I think they are still doing ok, at least I know my wines are here and I think they are also ISO certified and being the pioneer in the trade, it’s sad to see some of their wine brokers left the company and join another or setup new ones and start poaching each others client,lately I heard some of AWI broker went over to PLA, as a client, I really cannot ‘tahan’ so many brokers keep calling me, PLA, AWM, UAG and even Wine Society from HK. If talk about sueing, I think AWI ever file against UAG for their broker from taking client’s database to another company and start calling them, I think that sounds familiar.
Hi Lionel
ISO certified doesnt mean anything , even banks close down.
After how long did you sell your wines?? Teach me what you used to make them sell, I guess they selling your wines to other investors too. I would really hope you can advice me how to get them to sell faster. I and friends have been sabo by them times and again, until now , not even 1 bottle sold. Sometimes I really think if they can sell even 1 bottle of Beer.
So what do you suggest Samuel? Even those other brokers came to me and none of them is in any position to help me offload. I made an offer to them if they help me offload, I will roll back partial of the proceed back to them, none of them have the guts to take it.
UAG offer 1 year guarantee back, now gone. One broker from PLA offer me 3 months back, no way I’m putting any capital in.
I’ll leave AWI to prove themselves and update you guys if they manage to offload all my portfolio within this year.
Cheer….
Lionel, did you just say broker from PLA offered you ‘guarantee back’ 3 months ago ? Pls elaborate if possible. Thanks.
Correct me if I’m wrong, quite a number of brokers are part-time ie they work for AWI, PLA, UAG or even ERA, DTZ simultaneously, selling wine products and even ppt. My former broker from AWI was certainly a part-time staff. Found out too late.
That’s why the committment and communication was so poor, scoot after getting commission and leaving you high and dry. I’m still thinking of how best to sue him for breach of contract.
I am surprized that less than 18 UAG investors lodge complainst with CASE against UAG. Seems like there are ‘more’ in this forum. So who are the real ones ?
samuel form pla i guess
BMX are you a broker?or invester just like me and lionel?
CASE and SCT did not accept the UAG cases hence there were no actions on their end. It’s only talk by CASE chairperson in the papers. What’s the point of asking other investors to file a case if they’re not accepting it and taking actions.
Lionel
What did you do to let AWI sell the wines for you?
lionel….
good to hear that your first batch of wines have been sold off at 5% profits…… however i believe these wines u sold off is being sold by awi to other investors……
and wow…. after these double markups….. these new investors are sure to lose money…….
and also….. 5% profits after 3 years seem like hmmmmm very little…..but still better than 100% loss lah….
and yah what did you do to let awi sell ur wines for you????
pls share , so that other investors can try ur method and see if it works………
to learn and understand more about the hundreds of wine investment and land investment frauds and scams around the world……..
go to http://www.investdrinks.org
though i think he only focus on scams in uk……. and already have hundreds of them….. imagine ard the world
think got thousands…….
and billions and billions of $$$$$ being cheated……
Mr Dominic’s AUdi r8 Car on Sale… haha… Orbi Good!
http://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=52417&DL=1278
hope can get back money…
How can he sell his car, he still outside singapore?
Kevin,
I’m not a broker. Fortunately I didn’t invest with UAG. Unfortunately I invested quite a fair bit with another company and facing a 35% loss currently. I am tempted to sell off everything as ‘Wine’ had previously advised….30% loss is better than losing evrything. But I’m holding off as I still can’t decide whether it would be rash move, just like cutting losses in shares.
Like you I’m concerned about the recent turn of events as more people are dragged into the picture and they all seem related.
Sorry, can’t divulge too much as you really don’t know who the real investors are on this forum.
I doubt you can get answers here about your investments as there hasn’t been disturbing issues with that company…or not yet. That’s why I’m concerned when the ‘buy back’ scheme was mentioned by Lionel.
Hi guys, as my wine has been with awi since 2004/2005/2006 and it’s 2009 now you know. I think the guideline or most broker’s selling point when they pitch their sales is that they will sell your wine after 3 years. It’s been a long wait.
I tried email, phone, dropby their office for quite a while I think till they cannot ‘tahan’ me and decided to help me sell my wine. Frankly, I have not seen any payout yet so it’s still at the ‘talk only’ stage. Till I collect the hard cash, then they prove themselves trust worthy.
And really I do not care about their exit strategies whether they sell to their channel or other investors, it’s their job.
As for the buyback thing, I think those people who verbally offer me thru the phone are desparately for sales, anyhow sell.
guess its going to be a long long long long long long long long long wait………
probably the same is going to happen to awi like what happened to uag……..
who next??????
lets hope all these scam companies close down….
but hard lah… think still got tens of thousands of singaporeans dunno abt such scams, or will be tempted by greed and fall into such scams……..
haizzzzzz……. so sad ………
lets hope these scammers trip and fall and break their legs or arms or whatever …………………………….
Well.. Let the dust settle i think all the talks are useless for one thing all our money is gone for sure.. lesson learnt to invest in yourself
Any News
UAG website shut down.There goes our money for sure
i have just lost 320k with UAG in both australian and french wines. i still have some investments with PLA, which i will do everything i can to sell off now. I suggest that those who have anything above 10k to liquidate it all now. You are just a sitting duck waiting to get shot. Do not trust your broker who says ‘ I will look after you, don’t worry’, at the end of the day the broker will run and take your money too.
Friends, ill say it again. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS WINE TRADING in singapore. All your wines will be left sitting , and you will be stuck with thousands of dollars of wines that even the auction houses will not touch. If you want to ask your broker are these rumors true? they will sure deny it to protect the market and not spoil it. Ask your broker when was the last time he traded something off at auction? I can bet you that there has been none, no paper work , no evidence . Its all a BIG FAT LIE.
Who makes the most money out of wines? It is the middle man merchants and the brokers. Not the investors. We are just the conjob , the cashcow that pumps money and demand in the industry. Why are they selling to us in singapore? Its bcos the acutual AUSTRALIANS or FRENCH will not touch the product at such a heavy marked up price.
So do you think we can all sell to each other? no, but they will buy back and mark up, and sell again back into the singapore market.
This is the biggest PONZI scam in the history of SINGAPORE.
we are talking millions of dollars.
Please someone do something about this.
If you invested for years, ask for a portion of what you have invested back to test the integrity of your broker . he will most likely ask you to ‘roll’ or buy-up to make your portfolio worth more when you sell soon. Again this is a lie.
For those who still have wine porfolio, and companies still floating please take my advise and liquidate now, it wont be long till the other ‘WINE INVESTMENT’ companies see the same fate as UAG. Put your money into more traditional investments, industries which are regulated and controlled.
YES you, all you brokers/ex brokers/companies. We know what you are doing and now that UAG has fallen, all eyes will be on you.
At the end of the day, you will suffer for all the lies you have told, you can’t run from God. May he be merciful on your wickedness, and not take from you everything you have taken from all your clients who trusted you.
For public awareness, there is a yahoo group for sour uag wine investment
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/sour_UAG_investment/
Cheers
apparently there were so many comments made on wine investments – guarantee returns, ponzi, conjob, scams. Many discerning people are commenting but why no brokers or consultant names mentioned so far?
Won’t it be more fruitful if you guys can name somebody who gave a flowery picture to wine investment that you think is rather unlikely? That way things can be clearer & new/current investors can better take note of & be wary too right.
To Lost on – you’re having a bad one with this PLA you mentioned?? What happened?? Saw them on news quite recently & I thought they looked promising at least… Care to share your experience with them so that people whom read this forum can benefit thanks.
Hi Lost,
Wow…$320K wine investment with UAG, that is a lot of money…DS definitely strike it rich with big clients…
Hi Lost,
What vintages are you selling off PLA ? Have they quoted you any prices yet ?
Hi BMX , LOST didnt say he got bad one with PLA, in fact personally I agreed with you that PLA is more on a promising company. I have a few friends dealing with them , so far didnt hear any complaint.
HI James, sorry to hear that you have so much in UAG, I do have some, but around 40K. Hope some government office will steps in and do something, I guess it will be ZERO chance to get our money back. But who knows, let HOPE we can, its our hard earned money.
i had a friend and myself we invested with PLA En-prineur the wines are stored in helibrand but certificate issue by PLA that’s what i’m worried about unless All investors of PLA fly over and check the wines don’t you guys think it’s better? any way their bankers gaurantee are nothing.i asked around and found out from a broker from AWI it’s a lady ann or what that eldric KOh used to sell mercedes wow he must have sold alot……………………..
bankers guarantee is nothing ?? you should be happy at least they have bankers guarantee bro, if UAG have , I wont lost so much money.
Yes Peter, i agree with you and LOST, PLA is indeed more promising company compare to the rest around, I went to a few diffrent company website and conclude that indeed they are something compare to the rest of the companies.I really regretted not invest with them in the beginning and fall for UAG guarantee returns.i have also told my wife that I have nothing to say now as what is lost in UAG is definite, life still goes on.
PLA’s Wine Director was interviewed by CNBC on 24 June 2009. He has shared some insights and tips on how one can actually be profited by investing in the right Fine Wine.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1162264518&play=1
hi NiNi, i saw that last week, forward from a friend of mine who invested with them, after UAG saga and CNBC still interview them, I think they are promising compare to the rest in singapore.
Yes I saw that CNBC too and I been to their office for a talk, I basically think PLA is diffrent from the rest. Some people here mention that Eldric which is the CEO of PLA used to be a broker in AWI, some even say he selling Car last time, please guys , not to say that I am sideing anyone here , those that are mentioned here is the past, whats that got to do what NOW. Many big names in the world used to be no body , some even a cleaner , some even coolie, some even hawker before, cant judge what he was compare to what he is today.UAG saga has make some investors goes ;wire”, guys lets face the fact, our money is gone , just leave it to CAD.
Paul,
I’ve been to their office several times too. The office is posh. Their sales tactics are very convincing. En Primeur 08 sure make money too…..rite ? It has gone up 20-30% since first launch 3 months ago. Anyway en primeur time horizons are at least 3 years or longer. If you have extra cash, can wait 3 years and provided nothing happens to the company in the meantime, you may see some returns. It may be more prudent to use the money to buy CapLand shares and keep them long term.
Anyway, PLA website mentioned previously that the CEO Eldric is away pursuing his studies. I’m not sure how involved he is.
I have no issues with AWI, but I’ve personally experienced the crap of a former AWI broker.
PLA does look promising currently and that’s becos all the rest are crap. It is a good time to raise their profile. Apparently alot of their clients are extremely ‘pleased’ and are still buying wine in droves.
Let’s hope all these clients who still buy their wines in droves, will not lost all their money in droves………
like what other investors mentioned, what they have is still just a piece of paper and whatever certificate issued by pla and not the main storage warehouse,……….
if the wines are really in the warehouse under full ownership of investors, then it is only right the certificate is issued directly from warehouse under investors name………..
this is very suspicious…………………
cos i got a friend who invested with premier cru from uk and he got his certificate directly from warehouse…………..
so ask urself, why does pla issued ur cert under pla????????
is it becos the wines are stored under pla’s name????????????????????????
well, so what if they seems promising????
doesnt uag or awi or any other companies seem so promising few years ago??????????????
well, risk is there, investors make ur choise and good luck…………….
Wine on
I agree with you. Don’t understand all this people. There were so many cases happened on UAG then now AWI. These people are still foolish again to fall for the same trick, i presume these people have no brain. “NUTS!”"Never Learn!” As what mentioned earlier, “God will laugh at their stupidity! Devil will laugh together with God.” Let them dig at their own grave. We are already victim once, will never happen twice. Let all these fellow keep digging. We now open eyes big big to see when is the day, you and me can clap together on their stupidity. GOOD LUCK
The best person to consult with regard to investing in wine are people in the retail wine business. Go talk to people in Vinum, Crystal Wines, Denise, Wine Culture, etc etc and understand from them how things work in the wine industry.
They too carry high end wines and have all the contacts and sources all over the world. Show them what you are paying for your “investment wine” and see what they have to say. Interestingly, ever wonder why none of these wine shops procure wines from the so called “wine investment companies” who has millions of dollars worth of wines looking for a buyer?
So far has anyone out there successfully sold off your wines thru the wine co?? If yes, how’s the profit/loss like?? How long did the whole process take??
Safest bets are in the 1st growths, Penfolds Grange and a handful of other wines like Chateau Petrus, Chateau Le Pin.
I have never bought ANY wine from ANY Singapore companies, as I discovered that most of them pays around 10% commission to their brokers, and a hefty mark up of no less than 10%-20%.
All the above mentioned actually KILLS the profits for your wines.
Having invested mostly on 1st Growth En Primeurs, I have NEVER seen growth on average of less than 10% per annum after 5 years of storage.
Some argue that you can even get that within 2-3 years, yes I am sure u can if u get lucky and pick the right year and wine. But being a real wine investor, I do not just invest in 2 or 3 wines, I have to look on my overall portfolio.
On average I have no less than 11 labels on my portfolio each year, rounding off the average growth is more of a common sense, rather than chirping in happiness on 1 wine that is doing exceptionally well.
I mainly get my wines from sources in Europe, e.g. London, Bordeaux, Pomerol, Burgundy.
But please be aware that the amount is not something an average round the mill investor is willing to place without second thoughts.
So far experience with investment in wine is great.
Do you homework, never listen to some broker who is only interested in lining his pocket with the commission he will earn from selling you wine.
The bottom line, if a company can tell u your wine has appreciated, SURE!!!, PROVE IT!!!
Cheers
Ya basically I think PLA is so far better then the rest. Met them in 1 of the exhibition ,their brokers are so professional, well spoken , dress well, behave professionally unlike UAG who mostly dye their hair and majority look so “beng”.
Also in awi, this so call ‘sales director’always call and talk nonsense to me , always used his “position” to sell me wines, sometimes i wonder if he knows what he is talking on the phone and what wines he is selling.I basically knows my wines well and wonder why awi employ someone who dont even know what he is selling and always talking rubbish.
Hi James
yes, i have a broker from awi too, but this so call “Sales Director” call me too, always give me the impression he is drunk over the other side of the phone, he really dont know what he is talking about, when I say no to him, he will just slam the phone on me. I called my broker back and she always say she dont know what this so call sales director is doing too. In my mind I was thinking , am I in good hands.After that incident I have stop my investment with awi till today and hoping now that they will not be another uag especially after reading all the comments on the Director involving in scam in australia. Really worried now.
all the bloody brokers from PLA trying to act innocent huh…
James,
I beg to differ. The few I met last year turned out to be AhBs the moment they hit the carpark….fagging away. Some of these PLA brokers are part-timers and have jumped ship from AWI. PLA may have weeded some of them out recently. Apart from a select few, most are still after your money and commission. These are the expert smooth operators with excellent sales pitch. I’m speaking from my own personal experience with a loser. As a result the ultimate loser is still myself, with about 50K of paper losses currently. Many of his former clients have also complained against him. Quite surprized none of them have surfaced on this forum. If the saga drags on, eventually wine sales at PLA will drop to an unsustainable level…..then we’ll be screwed all over again. Do you believe PLA’s expansion into the China market is going to give you another avenue to sell off your wines ?
David,
Did you see your actual bottles at JF Hillebrand ?
Thanks David. I’m happy for you. What did you liquidate ?
Yes I got a call from AWI sales director as well, he basically know nuts about investment. sad to see all the wine investment company are going into Ponzi. I am more worried after reading the posting here about the AWI issue as the boss himself did some scam in australia and was given a warning from the government, how can I get them to sell all my wines now???
Kt Ng, the fact that they can help investors exit from the 2006 goes to show that they are simply flipping the “wines” from one investor to another. David here may have sold his “wines” but in reality, no physical exchange of wines occur and the case/s of wines basically remain static in the warehouse. Its just one investor flipping over to another investor. The music will stop when the final investor ask for physical delivery of the wines.
Imagine say there’s actually 10 cases of wines sitting in the warehouse. Now, imagine 20 investors all with papers saying they each own 1 case of these wines as an investment. Between these 20 investors, some will exit without asking to take delivery of the wines as long as the company can find another investor to take over the paper.
Unless ALL 20 investor decide AT THE SAME TIME to want to take physical possesion of the wines, there’s no telling how many piece of “investment wines” in paper is created to sell to investors.
So with just 10 cases of wines, you can basically create a ever expanding pool of investors buying and selling from one to another. The buck stops when they run out of investors to take over. That when the firm have to cough out cash to pay the investors. If no cash, the investors will ask for the physical wines. But there’s only enough wines in the warehouse for 10 investors.
So in either case, you take your money and run as fast as you can (like what David did) or if there’s no money, than you take your wines and ran as fast as you can. Otherwise, all you have is a piece of paper that says you own a case of the world most expensive wine.
And Kt Ng, you are a wine broker ain’t you? All the tell tale signs are there in your posting.
You can fool most of the people some of the time, some of the people most of the time, but not all the people all the time
ya david, if u wan to say, pls say everything in detail, don say half way and say u don wish to go into further details, no wonder kt Ng and many others do not believe wat u say.
ya u can come out and say believe it or not up to u, good luck if u don believe, how can all the victims here help each other if they have the same kind of answers like u, if u really know something then pls share and help each other.
Greed, you mentioned earlier that the best person to consult with regard to investing in wine are people in the retail wine business. Do you think the guys in Vinum, Crystal Wines, Denise, Wine Culture, etc etc would be able to trade off my Aussie wine? I am not expecting to make any profit but I hope not to suffer more than a 20% loss.
Wow David, for someone who knows nuts about wine investment, your knowledge is simply stunning.
Recce, I now know a lot about wine investment after I have been cheated but I guess it is too late because I am now stuck with physical wine that cannot be sold. If I had known about this website earlier, I would not have found myself in this shit hole that I have dug for myself.
Looks like all the wine brokers in here are gathering forces to hit me back and discredit me. Go ahead, I will be in here till I get my money back.
David,
Many thanks for the info. As far as I know, the 06 has lost at least 30% in the last year, almost back to the first tranche prices. Did you buy them at 1st tranche prices ?
I’m less fortunate and may just have bought someone’s ‘collection’. I have to complete the painful lesson now. Thanks David
David, I am not sure if those retail wine merchants are able to help you sell your wines. At the end of the day, if the margin is lucrative enough for them, they might consider. But that would mean you will have to take a substantial hit on your investment. Also, it depends on the labels you have. Might be worth considering offering them on consignment basis.
I always believe that as long as the price is attractive enough, you can find a buyer. But whats attractive to the buyer may not be attractive to you the seller. Especially given the market condition now plus all the bad news about wine investment, buyers will take opportunity to make you ridiculous offer because they know you are desparate.
If you have physical access to your wines, have them removed to your own storage and hang on to it for the time being. There are logistic companies that provide wine storage facilities for individuals at very nominal price which you can consider if you dont have space and wine cooler at home.
Dear All,
In light of the recent post by David on this forum,
Premium Liquid Assets(PLA) would like to make an official statement on the comments made by
David on July 16th, 2009 at 12:31 am:
“I can confirm once and for all that PLA is indeed a Ponzi Scheme”
Premium Liquid Assets(PLA) finds this comment totally untrue and slanderous.
Premium Liquid Assets(PLA)has made an official complaint to the Singapore Police Force and will reserve our legal rights for libel.
Premium Liquid Assets(PLA)has since our foundation, conscientiously worked on our mission of delivering an unique and transparent platform to exceed the investment objectives and service expectations of our clients.
However, with fine wines recognition as a true investment class, many new companies have sprung up to provide and promise the same level of excellence that we have delivered.
It is with regret that some of these companies have taken an irresponsible fraudulent approach and severely damaged the confidence and perception towards the asset class and the industry as a whole.
We have proactively endeavored to keep investors informed about the risks of investing in wines other than those which have strong fundamentals and secondary market as well as highlighting the key areas that investors should look out for to protect their interest with our articles such as
“The Route To A Successful Fine Wine Investment”
in December 2008 and “Protecting Your Wine Investment”in May 2009 on our blogsite.
Premium Liquid Assets(PLA)welcome our investors or the general public who have any enquiries to email us directly at or simply arrange to meet us at our office to get the right information in regards to wine investment instead of just relying on unofficial medium.
Operations Department
65 6499 1855
PREMIUM LIQUID ASSETS PTE LTD (PLA)
BORDEAUX/SINGAPORE/HONG KONG/SHANGHAI
55 Tras Street Singapore 078994
Yo David,
Sad to hear that U have lost so much in your investment. but, when U purchased it, if U know the price is higher, why did U still buy from them? and some more, I believe they also had make known to you that you have to pay the 12% for charges when U sell, and why did U still buy? and how long did U hold? base on my understand from all wine investments.. it seem that the it need at least 3 – 5 years to see return.. and you are not first timer in wine investment before U purchase from them right? and U know all these point before you purchase… if not, why U buy? can’t be telling us that U buy it becos the broker is a lady who offer U something else? or something else… they take a knife to force U to sign on the paper? hahaa…… I recall, I bought a Toyota Wish in Oct last year, the price is at around 73K plus, within a month, before I get my car, it drop to 69K. So should I start to post here too? and say that I been cheated? the price also when up and down becos of COE and others. can I go to CASE? the answer is No.. reason? Simple.. At that moment, it had stated the price clearly, and if U have the interest in the product.. you buy it, if U don’t wait for the price to drop.. if the price don’t drop, and increase?
Just like another recent case on the school stuff, are you going to make sure that all the rest of the private school are doing the same things?
This is just my comment… I think the case here is. how is UAG investors getting back their $$$ or wine..
NO WINE INVESTMENT IS SCAM, ALL VERI CLEAN.
yes agreed all wine company are clean.
ooops my turn, wine investment in singapore are all very clean and good to invest and drink for free. best investment in the world.
Something is wrong here?? Ya agree, wine investment companies in singapore are the best.Not 1 companies cheat money,mislead,misrepresent.Good night all
I was very very busy at that time and making quite a lot of money from my day job so I was too damn careless in just believing them that the prices were the current market prices. I never expected the actual price differences to be that wide given that they showed me reports stating the prices as being the current traded prices. I still have those reports and the brokers were expert liars and sounded very convincing in dispelling any doubts that I may have at that point in time.
Looks like something big is happening here, someone is going to get themselves into big trouble.
By the way i think wine investment is not so bad after all, i attended a few free wine tasting, treat it as a profit from my investment. cheers wine investment, long live.
yah cheers wine investment,….
long live wine investment…….
cos it makes the brokers rich…….
while the brokers help to make the investors broke……….
anyway david
thank you for sharing your experiences here after so long……..
if what you said is true,,…. and pla is really geting police after you……….
i will wish you all the best of luck and hope the real real truth will be out soon…………
Ok.. Sad to hear that U didn’t know the price,but normaly U have a cooling period leh…. how can be that way…. any thing U buy in SG all have cooling period.. and after so long U than find out?
when I read this forum today… I think of something…….
today , if I buy a condo, Developer ask us to up font the $$$ first.. and than.. Developer close down? than how? is this going to be the same case? .. thinking twice.. I think stay in HDB i the best…. better tell my wife don’t buy any condo.. hehehee.. good excuse for me..
another thing, if today I got my condo, at x value. and I keep for3 – 5 years…. market crashes.. like last year… than? price also come down… the worst.. I will have to stay for myself…. so I think Wine investment or merchant is the same way.. worst of all. U just have to wait longer for the market to pick up.. or u just drink it.. heheee.. too bad.. I not that rich to drink now… so overall is the same…
as for those who say wine investment is clean… I don’t think so leh.. cos… UAG had hit and run… but we can’t say that all of them is in the same root… same of all… if one developer hit and run… are we going to comment.. all the same?
as for David,.. I think no point of commenting all these…. today.. if you had really find that something not right.. U had alert the police long ago…and why here keep posting.. I think…police will fine U faster if U go and file a police report about them… hheheee.. but.. – please don’t.. U must act like JI… hit and run… and hide.. and wait for time to rise up your view again? hahaaa… but end of the story.. turth fact is.. living in this World is full of risk…
Good luck to U David….as what WINE had commented……
( this case… remind me of someone.. some years ago.. say alot of bad things about our Singapore SM. and in the end…? hahaa.. or are U one of them? lolx)
Thanks for sharing David. I’m sure you know what you are doing.
Yesterday morning I buy ice cream from my house and cost me $ 1 dollar, just now i buy from 1 block away from my house and cost me the same ice cream for 80 cents, do i go and tell the whole world i got cheated?? Think le david
To james (who praise PLA),
It happened that you used the same nick as me…I only have dealings with UAG. personally I think all wine brokers in Singapore are not professional. I suspect you could be one broker with PLA…
Dear All,
I realise that it is so easily to have same nick in this forum and one could be easily confused…To all whom have correspond with me before the ” new james” appear, please note that I will not be posting in this forum..
regards
The earlier james…
WOW so much has been posted & very juicy ha!!! Thanks all for the sharing esp David’s part & I too hope that all will come to light soonest. We’ll then get a clearer picture of this wine investment thingy in SG.
As far as I’m concerned, if somebody can give guarantee returns on any investments ie on David’s case of 15-40% pa, aren’t the banks ashame of themselves for giving ONLY projected returns?? If an investment can guarantee returns, do you still think that they need to reach out to us?? There will be a LONG QUEUE outside the office everyday with new investors signing up right!! And institutions/banks will not even blink an eye to pump in millions of dollars into this investment plan giving guarantee returns!
Investors out there please ALWAYS keep an open mind to details & not just believe in every word especially this “GUARANTEE”. The only thing guarantee in any lives is that we will pass away when time comes.
Lastly, does wine investment really suck?? Why ain’t any ex/current investors sharing any +ve feedbacks so far?? Except all the whining, complaints, allegations, bad-mouth etc….
Can’t we be more constructive especially now that UAG has gone up in flame?? We gotta share constructive info thereby to help fellow investors or give going-to-be investors some better insight ya.
Te best way to savage to to prove the wine industry is a true market and no company is doing a ponzai scheme, anyone can suggest to CASE or MAS that a independent audit be done on all the wine companies
To Stupid – I think the wine industry is way to small to create an impact for CASE or MAS to regulate right?? Can regulation be easily done & carried out??
To David – thanks for the update soonest so that all can come to light & we can have a better picture towards this industry.
You also said that wine prices are inflated big time for the next investors but don’t the investors know what’s the going rate for the wines before the purchase?? ie if I sell you a 1lt Marigold orange juice for $10… will you just buy & grumble later on for the high price paid???
David, I admire your guts, its either you felt that there is definitely injustice being done to you by the company you had been accusing of or that you are trying to bring all wine investment companies inclusive of all wine merhants in Singapore and other parts of the world down, remember these merchant sell their En Primuers and 1st growth using investment as a sales pitch as well. So guess MAS will never look into consumer products like these.
Perhaps David you are a whisky person and wine could have given you too much hangover and headaches. Wish you luck in your pursuit for greater happiness. Anyway I was a recent wine investor with PLA and would also like to see if what they had been doing is correct. So far my portfolio had been positive with them for my cases of lafites and 2008 En Primuers. Only will realize the gains once I have sold.
As far as I can see…me and you went into an investment with our eyes and ears open, we have committed into an agreement and made our purchases and I felt there is no case in bringing prices, time or purchases, products which do not have a standard prices worldwide as an arguement. We will lose pants down and waste money on legal fees.
Why I say that you are brave enough in this forum compare to many is that no dumb ass here dare to commit to their statement to say AWI is which company PLA is which company without actual facts and is able to prove our facts in court unless we refer UAG as Universal Assets Group which had failed.
You have acknowledge so many times in your statememt that PLA is Premium Liquid Assets Pte Ltd even after they have posted Premium Liquid Assets (PLA), accusing them of these and that… and I hope you can stand firm with your beliefs. Be ready for a legal battle with them and update us asap. Perhaps you can leave us your email or contact number so that once your case is out most of us will be able to know the results.
Since you have openly throw them the challenges why not get things moving without letting all wait for the 27th July, get the police to contact you and PLA operations department now, better to be early then wait for another UAG? Suggest that you give out the name of the investigation officer and lawyer for PLA to contact asap?
PLA operations have finally posted in here and dare to take up the challenges and you shouldn’t be afraid if you have all facts that you was right with your accusitions? If you have given your contact and PLA do not dare to take this up proven they have things to hide. Lets not keep everyone in suspenses…
Hi David
Yes i agree with MJ, since PLA already throw the ball, why you no balls now is it.
Three cheers for PLA! HIP HIP HOOORAY !!
Lets show them some love, bcos obviously they need some at this point in time. XX OOO
wait they call the police again and you kana sue for MOCKERY.
MJ, I believe the 08 En Primeur has gone up 30% since launch and I’m happy that you have made paper profits. The 06 and 07 are disasters. Lafites 95,00,05 should be doing quite well if you bought them early. You must know your stuff too.
Can I ask whether you have the Lafites at JFH. If you do, have you checked if they are stored under your account and you have access to them even if the company folds ? Thank you.
Hi everyone, since its Friday, why don’t I post something light-hearted? As PLA has posted an official statement, allow me to make some comments language-wise in capitalised words.
PLA’s statement includes:
(1) (“PLA)has made an official complaint to the Singapore Police Force and will reserve our legal rights for libel.” RESERVE OUR LEGAL RIGHT FOR LIBEL? DO YOU WANT TO SLANDER OTHERS AS WELL? OH, YOU MEAN RIGHT TO SUE FOR LIBEL. SAY SO LAH!
(2) “(PLA)has since our foundation, conscientiously worked on our mission” ERR, IS PLA A BUILDING THAT IT NEEDS A FOUNDATION?
(3) “However, with fine wines recognition as a true investment class” WHEN DID FINE WINES RECOGNITION BECOME A SUBJECT OF STUDY, THAT THERE IS NOW A CLASS FOR IT? NO WONDER THERE IS SO MUCH CONFUSION HERE AS THERE IS A OF SKILLS TO RECOGNIZE/IDENTIFY FINE WINES.
(4) “It is with regret that some of these companies have taken an irresponsible fraudulent approach and severely damaged the confidence and perception towards the asset class and the industry as a whole.” THIS ONE IS REALLY HARD. SINCE THESE COMPANIES ARE ALREADY FRAUDSTERS, HOW CAN THEY REGRET THEIR ACTIONS? OR IS IT THAT THEY REGRET TAKING AN IRRESPONSIBLE FRAUDULENT APPROACH RATHER THAN A RESPONSIBLE FRAUDULENT APPROACH SO THAT THERE IS NO CASE AGAINST THEM? THEN AGAIN, THE COMPANIES’ CONFIDENCE AND PERCEPTION IS NOT DAMAGED RIGHT? THAT’S WHY THERE ARE SO MANY NEW COMPANIES SPRINGING UP. BUT WAIT, THE INVESTORS’ CONFIDENCE AND PERCEPTION ARE ALREADY DAMAGED! SO WHO IS PLA REFERRING TO?
(5) “instead of just relying on unofficial medium.” YES PLEASE, I WANT THE OFFICIAL MEDIUM. WHRE IS IT PLEASE?
By the way, I am available for proofreading and drafting services. Cash payment before commencement of work. Payment in the form of fine wine is acceptable, but subject to 40% discount of investment price and 3 years storage fees (I can’t drink all in one go, hehe).
Good one. Statement must be litten by bloker, cannot be lawyer and definitely not ex-glammar leacher turned bloker. Have a good weekend.
Hi Ms Grammar
Wow you angmo so powderful….trying to teach people how to write proper angmo , i sirlute you. I was in the O feet just now and my peng you tell me you think you very good, but let me tell you here, your angmo is the worst here in the blog, cos you dont know how to read the title of the blog and come in here teach angmo, this is New Age Wine Investment for investors talk investment le, not ask you come here teach angmo, if you cannot even read title and want to show off, please go out teach angmo website. dun come here haolian, i think your tao nao something bo hor sai. Dont forget hor, people can track you easy le. stupid angmo still want hao lian, cannot read title is it.
Dear All Investors Only
I basically think this website is more of brokers slacking each other here. I am only keen into contact and exchange informations with real wine investors.We as investors already lost out so much of our hard earn money and you brokers here still trying to slack each other here.Do you brokers born with a heart of steel??
For those who want to find out more about how your wines is going to be traded out, is your investment safe after UAG and why your wines still not able to trade out after so many years, please visit the wine investment talk on this coming Sunday at Suntec 16.05. No point slacking one another and trying to proof your company is the best or his company is the worst. Investors please take this opportunity and ask as many questions as we can to clear our doubt in wine investment. No point wasting time in this website as all things posted here are basically no logic and wont tell you if its true.
http://www.asiainvestment.com.sg/index.html
thank you stella…….
to all real investors…… lets go down to suntec this sunday……….
http://www.asiainvestment.com.sg/program_day2.htm
4.05pm – 4.35pm
Why Invest in Wine?
Mr Alvin Lim,
Sales Director
Australian Wine Index (S) Pte Ltd
lets see what they have to say to all our questions and enquiries………..
and yah lets see how professional they are…….. .
always trying to avoid us……. now they will have no chance to avoid us anymore at the seminar…………
unless, well they purposely cancel the seminar………….
and for pla investors , dont worry, you have chance to questions them at the coming invest fair next month too……………………
and to david…… thanks for sharing once again and wish you all the best of luck……..
i believe all real investors will be glad to read this postings by all real investors here………….an
and i believe they are smart enough to figure out which postings are from real investors and which are from fake investors………………
oh yah…..anyone have contacts of the reporter who helped us to post the truth abt uag in the newspaper…….
probably can get here down to help interview the professional sales ppl who make investors broke…………………….
Aiyoyo Ah Ti ah, 8:35 pm already, no wonder you feel so grouchy. You must be very tired, so don’t take my light-hearted post to heart. Anyway it is supposed to cheer up your weekend, unless you feel offended by it cos you wrote the PLA statement? No, my English is not “powderful”. If you read carefully, my posting is full of mistakes too, just that it is not as bad as yours…
I know its late, but i just got to know about this website from a friend of mine. Oh god, I didnt know that there are so many investors here discussing about wine investment. I do have investment with AWI, PLA, UAG and Profiters. After reading all the posts here, i am getting worried now. My total investment is close to 300K with all this companies. I only know about UAG problems but i didnt know that there are so many issues with the rest as well.
I will definitely be at the talk this sunday with awi and hoping they will answer all my doubts and why my wines hasnt been able to sell till now which is coming 4 years, I have not got a single bottles sold from them and i head on to invest with the rest, I really feel that I am stupid enough to do this, should not have invest with others before I got ride of my wines with AWI. How stupid am I. Anyone out here can advise me please? What should I do and get them to sell my wines? these are money that i put aside for my son studies,if my husband found out that I am stuck with all this issue with my son studies money, i will be dead. Any advice??Anyone that I can meet do head down to the exhibition together as I will not know how to questions them.
I’ll make my way down this Sunday. It’ll be interested to see what they have to say. In fact I have the sales order and email proof that they sell my wine. It’s coming 3 months and no payment received. The email told me 2 months the payment will be settled and they get telling me the buyer has not payup. I begin to wonder whether the wines are being sold?
David
Please note that it is true that PLA can hold you accountable for making a public statement that they are a Ponzi scheme. Should they report to police, the facilitator of this forum will have to co-operate and they will do IT trace and the police can find out who ur. In SIN there are laws. If you can’t prove that are operating a Ponzi scheme then you can be sued. Like few eg quoted, the price could be simply overpriced but you accepted it. What to do? They did deliver the stock to you and is sitting in the warehouse under your name. What Ponzi? Even UAG is not a Ponzi. It is the director embezzled company funds and on the run. Simple. Lawyers, priests n monks in SIN did that too. Thats why is a CAD case.
There are many people who post here but they are neither investors or UAG victims. They did it for fun, just fanning flame or add oil to fire. Such as Ms Grammer posting, it is just a fun article that in her own words “so don’t take my light-hearted post to heart. Anyway it is supposed to cheer up your weekend”. Not everything must be regulated by MAS. Only financial products are. Wines are a perishable product and can be brought in for commercial trading by a commercial company like HTB or any others. What is it there need to regulate? If HTB buy some French wines and keep for few years before re-sell or distribute to the market and still need to be regulated by MAS, who will do wine business? Btw, for those who doesn’t know, French, Australian, Spain, Italian wines all have own classification and there is different classes of wines.
Hence David, dont be a solo hero. If PLA is to sue you, this group of people is not going to support you be it financial or spiritual. So please be wise and stop doing further harm to yourself. And for those who like to continue to put in defamatory statements here, you may just like to test the system.
Clients with wines with whichever company, it is only wise for you to continue to maintain a cordial relatiponship with them because they are still your service provider. They could still be the one that bring in your wines, sell off your wines etc. You may like to see that the wine business continue to grow and florish in SINGAPORE and not flop like UAG. If that happen, it will do you no favor.
Oh dear I really cant sleep after reading this website.More and more images comes into my mind when I read this blog.what is happening to all this wine companies?I cant wait for sunday to come soon and will get some answers. I hope all investors will try to raise as many questions as possible as I am a lady after all and I havent encounter all this situations before. How am i going to answer to my son and husband if this investment dont work out.
lionel/stella/wine
I will be at the sunday Suntec wine investment talk too. Hope to see you all with your tough questions on that day. Super hated all crap company that conned people’s money. After my UAG ‘lesson’, if i am going to buy any high end product or investment, will try to adobt using video recording. “no horse run” for bad salesperson/broker/bankers, so that it will not only be words against words. Sure Enough Evidence to sue them personally for mis-sell or etc if anything goes wrong. If Sunday WINE INVESTMENT talk permit, I will also do some videoing. At least, this can be a form of proof to many that beside UAG, there are also other wine company not able to return investors money.
Stella,Wine,Lionel
I will be there, my wines has not been sold since I invest in 2005.And I also do received alot of calls from this Alvin Lim trying to sell me more. When ever I say no, he will always slam the phone down, I believed real investors from AWI here will have faced the same issue as me. See you all there, I will be wearing black Polo T, with specs sitting in the front row.
Hi All
I will also be there with my documents and contract, they have not sold a single bottle too.I will see you all there. I will definitely sit in front row too.
Thought Alvin Lim has resigned from AWI few months back
I know Alvin Lim is still with AWI because he is still offering wines from them. David is an aggrieved investor who is only trying to be proactive in recovering what is left of his money, I dun think he is trying to be a solo hero. Dun think PLA will be silly enough to sue him for defamation as it will further shake the confidence of the other nervous investors if they learn about it. Heard PLA now offering a similar scheme like UAG where they offer to give you back 5% every month so if you invest with them, you will be able to recover back your money in 20 months……provided they are still around….LOL……I myself have invested with PLA and AWI and looks like I will not be able to recover my investments for a looooooonnnnnnnnngggggggg time.
My 1st post:
Steven on July 9th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
This site is full of rubbish!
95% – people who in the same trade trying to bad mouth each other.
5% – real investor.
My 2nd post:
This site is full of shit and rubbish!
99% – people who in the same trade trying to bad mouth each other.
1% – real investor.
Your guys already bad mouth about AWI, PLA, D’Venture so who is next?
AWM, Vino En Primeur, Profiters…..etc?
Rubbish!
I really do not trust this site anymore.I will get the answer at the investment talk on Sunday. Dear real investors, i think we should not believed anyone here, we have lost our money and trying to find the best way to recover, and here it seem that most of them are not real investors. Good bye and will not even log in again here.
Hi Jappy,
You are definitely not a real investors, the things that you say are obvious that you trying to slander other company. Even if you want to slander, please think of a better way, you mentioned 5% every month, that will be 60% in 1 year, you think investors are stupid or you think you are smart to come here and slander others. Please do not come here again and discuss nonsense.
You might as well say all the wine investment company in singapore offering 100% a year, EXCEPT for YOUR own company who is clean.
Dear Investors, I agreed with all of you that this website is full of rubbish brokers trying to slander each others.
to Caution:
juz a minor correction on the UAG pt, it is not embezzlement by the director, but actual FRAUD!!! and the authorities have sufficient evidence…..
Sui Ting,
I don’t think you will get any answers at the investment talk tomorrow either. Haven’t you been to one ? Only positive news.
Do you find it strange that there are so many negative posts here and only two-hands full of disgruntled investors posting. Where are the rest ?
I double-check only relevant information posted here. The answers I get may not be true either. I record them all down anyway. Might come in handy later.
Get out if you must. In this economic climate, it will be difficult to exit.
Regards.
Jappy,
” Heard PLA now offering a similar scheme like UAG where they offer to give you back 5% every month so if you invest with them, you will be able to recover back your money in 20 months ”
Is the source reliable or are you just wasting our time ?
To real investors like Sui Ting
Similarly to BMX, I think the questions that need to be answered are whether the investment can be sold eventually and at what price. This also depends on whether the wines are properly stored. As in the nature of all investments, the prices are cyclical. Now is a down period for almost all investment classes, except maybe for gold and other precious commodities. So it is a bad period to sell because you will definitely incur a loss. If you can hold on with confidence with regards to the questions above, then you should. But please remember, this is an investment, meaning that you are open to risks. When you go in, did you consider the possibility of a loss? For absolutely safe avenues, deposit in bank accounts or buy government bonds, There is a reason why these are not called investments. For the matter, I would not even call the UAG buy-back scheme an investment. It is more like a gamble.
UAG guaranteed buy back is NOT gamble, ITS FRAUD. Its a bubble scheme based on investers’ money to inflat the bubble until a time it blast. Right, in bad times investment will have possibility to incur loss. Its a simple supply demand logic. Seems market here is already overflooded with ‘supplies’…
Extremely grateful if anyone could post AWI’s statements to investors’ questions at the Suntec Fair. Thanks, can’t attend due to work committments.
BMX, why dun u check it out with PLA if there is really such a scheme. Every wine investment company in Singapore is unreliable and all real investors should stay away from all wine investments and do not be so stupid to part with your $$$ for premium wines again. There are so many other better and safe investments out there. I am not a broker and all real investors should not trust or believe any of the wine brokers in any of the wine investment companies ever again.
Jappy,
First ‘Lionel’ mentioned some sort of offer, then now this 5% thing. Something off the norm and definitely of great concern. What can we do if the answer from them is “NO”.
Are you also liquidating your positions ?
Any one can update the AWI talk in Suntec!!!!
I am also keen to find out more about this AWI talk. Anyone can share? Who deliver the presentation? Alvin Lim or somebody else?
BMX,
If PLA says No, then either their broker is pulling a fast one on me about this 5% return on your investment or I heard it wrong. Like David here, i am also stuck with wines from AWI. I am trying to find a way to liquidate them other than through AWI or any of the other wine brokers. Many of us have been told that we can only sell off the wines at about 50% of our initial purchase price. So everyone seems to have bought their wines at highly inflated prices. All real investors should try to exit from wine investment soonest possible. Those who are not holding real physical wines are at the greatest risks. So if you are holding wines from AWI, you are slightly better off but if you are holding more than $100K worth of wine with AWI, you better find a way to reduce your portfolio.
AWI sucks big time but I think they are the most stable of all the wine investment companies. You can say they are the best of the worst. I never heard of anyone making money in wine investment other than those wealthy private investors who do not have any dealings with wine investments companies and trade off their wines through their own means.
I went down today but missed the presentation by Alvin Lim. But I managed to have a chat with him and I asked him to really help to look into my portfolio and offload all my holdings with them. As I have already sold partial of my holding and waiting for them to sell the rest, he reassure me that he will do it before year end as my holdings are as far back as 2004.
The fact that AWI still dare to appear in the seminar and the rest did not make any appearance, it proofs that they are pretty much still into the business.
I told him that he has to show some result to proof that AWI is still a trustworthy company and hopefully regain back their reputation as a pioneer here in wine investment. Lets hope he honour his words as at the end of the day I just want the whole thing to end amicably.
Jappy,
Since this forum is also closely monitored, I think the answer will surface soon.
Anyway,
My 2008 wine investments’ current paper losses are about $50k compared to my 2008 stock market investments’ paper & actual losses of about $29k. Fortunately the stock market rallied from Mar 09.
Anyway, having to pay commission twice is also excruciatingly painful; once for very bad advice and the other for making a very bad investment decision.
Lionel,
I hope you are not convinced by just reassuring words. Did they give you a signed undertaking ?
BMX, so sorry to hear you suffered such huge paper losses on your wine investments. Did you checked the wine merchant prices on the internet before you bought your wine from your wine merchants? If you did not check and relied only on the brokers’ words like what David did in his case, you would not have spotted the huge price gap, right? Anyway, so long as you have the physical wines under your name, you can sleep a bit easier at night.
I invested with AWI since 2004, and Alvin has reassured me many times about selling my wines since 2007. 2 years later and now is 2009 and not a single bottle sold.
Andrew, the so called Trading Department Director, is not doing anything at all.
Best thing is, a friend of mine received a call from AWI, and recommended a wine, which I have in my portfolio.
I bought the berry’s bridge shiraz 02 at $65 each then, and the broker is trying to sell my friend this wine at $80, which the broker mentioned this wine have a great potential of 10-15% per year and is their best wine and other sales talk.
My friend did not buy in cos he know about my experience.
Yet, they still does not sell my wines and even tell me that I have to take at least 20% loss if I really want to sell. I say go ahead, I take the 20% loss, then again wait and still could not sell.
My valuation report stated a 20% profits last Dec.
I believed this so called valuation report is just put up for show, to attract new investors to invest more money into wines.
Conclusion is that reassurance from Mr Alvin or Andrew are just words they say everyday to every investors.
Words without actions are just ___________#$%$^#$#$@
And yes! Alvin called me before and SLAM the phone on me. This is what they do to people like me who don’t buy any more wines from them.
John, Everyone we know who is in wine investment has suffered huge losses. No one has made any money so far and therefore we should try our best to combined our efforts and pressurized AWI and the rest of the wine investment companies to refund our money. I know of one method but it is not convenient to give the game away in here. Alvin and Andrew words are worth less than toilet paper and so is every single wine broker in this forum. All you wine brokers from every single wine investment company are full of bullshit and may all of you die a horrible early death.
Jappy, what do you mean by pressurizing AWI and the rest of the wine investment companies to refund our money? It is an investment!! Something that you have bought and paid for. What refund are you talking about ?? Isn’t this thinking naive. This totally contradicts your earlier post about being savvy like checking prices before investing etc. And if you really know of a method to get out of the investment, why don’t you let us all know. Or are you one of those Fred/Stanley (sorry no time to scroll up to find out exactly who) characters who were described to be offering recovery services in earlier postings above.
Recalled Fred setup up his own company, offered another wine storage company which has cheaper rate than 12 degrees, offered to help UAG clients recover physical wines (for buy-back) and asked to be conducted individually..All of a sudden, Fred so quiet? Any has any updates and care what he is offering, or he disappeared again after getting some deals??
To Jappy – you mentioned earlier that PLA offers 5% returns per month.
Some of us also questioned you on the reliability of such info. This was what you hear-say or did a consultant from PLA actually said this to you???
If so, give us the name to this consultant. I don’t mind putting in 10k or so with him & see the 5% in Aug 2009.
Some of you guys are indeed constructive on the postings thank you.
As for the AICE 2009 yesterday, I was there at the 1st row but the talk by Alvin Lim ended with his 3 quiz & 3 wines won from the floor. How come I didn’t hear any of you people whom said so much about attending & questioning???
Thu, Refund for Misrepresentation lah. I am not one of those recovery agents and every real investor should avoid dealing with anyone who offers to help them liquidate their wine investment. Those offering recovering services are worse than those brokers who conned the real investors because they are taking advantage of the misfortunes of all the real investors.
Can someone tell me what is the current status of this UAG buy-back-scheme sticky issue?
When would the Saga be over?
It’s the truth that the buy-back-scheme is a fraud. It’s also the fact that investors are likely unable to get back a single cent.
Hope there’s light for all the investors who got scammed into it.
Whines,
Like me, the concern among most investors here is that if you make alot of noise at a public talk, your investment position could be compromised. Like ‘wine’ mentioned previously, if you are not nice, how do you expect them to sell your wine for you.
Was previously offered me 4% returns if I buy a 1st growth and sell 4 weeks later ie $16000 out then $16640 in. I couldn’t bring myself to believe it.
Jappy, care to let us know your source ?
Fred and Stanley all FOS.After their mask of “helping UAG clients” got removed, they scare liao.
Does anyone know about the status of the investigations and is it possible even if we can get anything back at all?
The AWI talk was a waste of time.
BNX, go to Facebook and seek out Alvin Lim from AWI. One of his friends in there jumped ship to PLA. That is the source.
BMX, you just mentioned about offered 1st growth and then sell one mth later at 4%. That is what I have been referring to all along. If you don’t sell after 4 weeks but wait till the following mth, you get 8% and so on and so forth. You dare to trust them?????
Paul, of course the AWI talk was a waste of time. What were you expecting anyway? Hope? Hope? and some more Hope? Why should AWI and the rest of the wine investment companies bother to trade off your wine when they got new investors to be conned as well? The only way they will start to even consider trading off your wine is if we combined our efforts and resources to prevent them from getting new clients and only then they will be forced to focus on the existing clients and help us sell off our wines.
well, i could not attend that talk due to some urgent stuff where i need to go oversea……….
thought that my friend who invested with awi would go…….
then he tell me he already given up long time ago…….. slowly drinking all his wines,,, thus dun bother to waste time to go to suntec or their office again and again and again and again……..
sorry that i would not be able to give new updates based on the talk…..
what a waste…. wanting to go there to ask him some tough questions……… haizzzzzzzzzzzz
by the way, i agree with many postings here that none of these sales people can be trusted……………….
and i still believe that real investors who are reading this will be really thankful to see other real investors posting…….
this will definitely stop them from throwing thousands to millions of hard earned cash to the brokers and directors pockets……………
might as well use them to buy some coke……
well bmx, i think that being nice is just one of the way, but it may not helped at all…….
just think that using other tactics may get them to help you sell faster………….
Whines,
You dun mind putting 10K for a 5% return in Aug? For a mere 5% (which is %500), you risk 10K? You sure, I can gurantee that once your 10K is into there, you will lose sight of it..If you have too much money to throw, why not donate directly to charity like BEYOND, SCHOOL POCKET FUND, OLD FOLK HOME etc…You will be blessed with your generousity toward chairty. However, the greed of 5% will definitely make you regret later..
Frankly, I can see it coming soon. ALL the wine investment companies will collapse one by one. New ones will try to take over from the fallen but they too will fail eventually because every single one of the wine brokers including every wine broker in here are shameless cheats and con men. 99% of them came from the used car and time share industry so history will repeat itself. I curse you all wine brokers die a horrible and early death.
Childish.
Hi Jappy,
Dun think so..look at time-sharing scams, these companies closed and then setup again and still get many people conned..
They will think of new ideas…and the scams will be even more successfully when times are good and when times turn bad, the schemes get explosed, just like what happening recently..
I got a call from some land-banking company asking me to invest in land overseas and could return of 20% yearly…
I was also approached to invest in horse, ie buy a share in a few e young horses (below 1 year old) and then sell it when it reach the age for racing (about 4 years). Was told that if the horse comes out top in its first race, can fetch very handsome profit, easily triple the investment amount..
Wine, property, land, horses, think there are many investment schemes out here…
What if the horse die??
To Recovery – I see your point dude but the main purpose is to see if they can really give that 5% returns you see. Per month 5% is definitely not too long to wait right, & I will request a B&W on this 5% per mth. I’ll just need the contact from Jappy or BMX & will enquire further on my own.
As far as I’m concern & at such mkt now, 5% returns per mth is definitely great! Let them prove their worth & we’ll have some stuff to talk about after that.
BMX & Jappy,
You guys really were told of such returns???? Please provide more concrete source & I don’t mind meeting up with you guys & head down to the company to understand more ya.
From my understanding, UAG did pen down the guarantee return in B&W but eventually flopped. Will PLA also pen down in B&W for new investors???
What else have you heard of from them???
To Jappy – you kept condemning/cursing the brokers but end of the day, did you for once reflect & think again??? If investors ain’t greedy & pea-minded enough to buy the story of a guarantee return investment in the 1st place, where will all this talk about conning & scam come from right! If you do your fair share of research & homework, all could have been avoided.
Till now after so much postings & cursings, no names were mentioned except Alvin Lim. He only slammed the phone on some of you but compared to those whom said about guarantee returns, ain’t they worse off than Alvin???
Whines,
Offers made several times. However broker has already left the company. Anyway, was told that’s not the company’s practice….and whatever this chap did was for his personal gain and not in the best interest of the company.
Has anyone check whether the wines in JFH are kept under the investor’s or the company’s account ? How then can we see the physical bottles if we are not allowed into the warehouse ?
Hi John,
If horse die, lose the investment. Anyway, the investment will be spread, ie on 3 horses…so one die, still got 2, unless all 3 die…
Hi Recovery,
Yes, one month not long to wait, but then you must fork out $10K outfront…after one month, you will have hard time chasing for the 5% (ie $500)…
However, if I am the operator, I will play a different game..
First month, I will pay you $500 (interest),
Second momth, I will pay you another %500..
Third month, I will pay you $5000 …now you are assured that company keeps its promise…I will ask you to dump in more…
You dump in another 20K because you got so much confidence now..
Fourth month …I will pay $1500 (500 for earlier and $500 for new investment..
Fifth month…I will pay $1500
Sixth Month..I will pay $1500…and ask you to invest more…wow…you found prompt and easier money and you dump in another 50K…
Now, you have collect interest $6K of you dump in $80K (10+20+50)…what happens next, your interest payment will disappear…and I have made $74K out of you…All I need is to convince you that I can be trusted on your initial investment of $10K and $20K but I am eyeing bigger monies from you…
Should you stop investing in the 3rd month, I will stop payment, still made $8.5K…($10K – $1.5K)
Should you stop investing in the 6th month, I will also stop payment, still make $24K ($30K – $6K).
See…either way, you lose..I win…strategy is to lure you (by making regular interest payment) to invest more until a stage you stop “investing” and I stop also making interest payment…
I think I can be a great con-man but then there is someone above who will judge and I believe there is such thing called judgement day where one has to pay for all misdeedss.
To all the wine brokers like Fred/Stanley/DS, someone above is definitely watch you and you will have your just desserts when comes to payment time..
opps, I meant 3rd month pay $500, not %5000..
Hi BMX – thanks for the added info…. Guess that’s it to the 5% thingy ya.
Hey Jappy, what about your source then?? Don’t tell me is the same chap whom left too??
Recovery – wow you got all worked out ya haha!! But if there isn’t any B&W, will investors still proceed?? Nowadays after all the minibonds & such, investors become much more alert & savvy to fall prey again right. Especially when the market situation is bad as now.
I’m disappointed that none of you guys popped any questions to Alvin Lim last Sunday after his talk. Not sure who didn’t attend nor did attend but he sure did walk away w/o being challenged : (( So much talk, complaints etc about being conned, forced to buy & other shit…….
He’s right infront of all you people & yet……….. WALK RIGHT OUT OF THE DOOR.
recovery,
what u illustrated is a money-game. definitely, money game is a ponzi. unlike being a horse owner, u buy & breed the horse, train the horse & race the horse. The wines that you buy for drinking or ‘investment’. These are physical things be it animal or a commodity product.
One thing for sure that all these alternative investment ideas will continue to stay n bloom. For horses we r awared that MU coach Sir Alex F is also a horse owner; Rev Miong Yi keep a horse as pet (refer to today’s TNP) For property, countless of successful examples; For wines, please refer to http://www.bbr.com and we will see how successful a wine company (also provide investment service)can be.
Singaporeans are too naive and shallow. Everything must be regulated by government then it is call ‘safe’. There is no safe investment. All has risk. Need wisdom to identify the diff between investment and scam. Lottery also has high risk but still so many people ‘invest’ their hard earn money every Wed, Sat Sun. Returns – as good as nil. Gamble in casino, now legalize, so all can ‘gamble’ legally. Returns – ??? but am sure money lending biz will be a good concept.
BMX, I thought I read David’s post that he went to France with his PLA ownership certs and was denied entry into the JFH premises because he did not have a personal account with JFH. So that means everyone who has no direct dealings with JFH other than through their wine investment companies does not owned their wines because it is under the company’s account. The answer is staring at us in our face but we still want to go into a state of self denial and hope.
BMX, i just received a phone call from one of the brokers in PLA. He said all accounts in JFH held under PLA name. If you want it to be under your name, you must have at least $300K worth of wines with them and they will then help you to open up a personal account with JFH. But they will only allow you to do this if you are a new customer and you made the request before you part with your money. So all existing customers cannot put in this request even if you have $300K worth of investments with PLA. Ok Folks, you have heard it at last from the horse’s mouth……and you can now confidently kiss your money bye bye.
Can anybody going to visit AWI to sell off their wines contact me at my office number 68821086? Thanks
Aiyo jappy, you 1 day come here 3 times and talk about other company bad things, what about your own company?? Like I say and the rest of the really investors here said, 99% of the people here are fake, especially if you are so free and come in here 3 times a day, dont you have people to sell wines to?? Or is your wine company got no one to scam. We as a real investors would prefer you stay away from here, WHINES also say the same things to you just now , why you keep coming in here and curse people, investors can take the lost in investment, but we will never curse others family. You are too much.
John Tan, I am not a broker although I can see from the postings here that you and MJ are both wine brokers and at least one of you is from PLA. I am a genuine wine investor and I want everyone to know the truth that wine investment is really a big con job. Investors who dare to speak up against all wine investment companies are doing a public service by warning others not to follow in our unfortunate footsteps. Every single wine investment company in Singapore cannot be trusted. If the wine brokers got good heart, my curse will have no effect on them at all.
I dare you to tell everyone in here that their French Wines stored at JFH is legally owned by them. Stop accusing me of being a wine broker. I am not a wine broker and everyone must avoid and keep away from anyone who is or claims to be a wine broker from any of the wine investment companies in Singapore.
I can come in here 3 times to post because I am an IT professional and got plenty of computers to work on. Best me to death I also will not want to be a wine broker. Sekali, got divine retribution from upstairs.
Jappy I have monitor this website and decided to voice out my personal feeling.
What Whines ,BMX ,John, and the rest say is true, this is not a place to curse and swear about whoever. Cursing will cause you to have retribution too . Be a man like everyone here, in all investment , there is always risk I really feel suspect that you are 1 of the broker from anyone of this companies, cos you are always pin point on certain company and not the others. If you have doubts, go and confront them. Stop posting all the cursing and things that are not relevant or with no proof. Mainly what we discuss here is about companies that have proven that run away or couldnt see the investors wines. BUt you are here discussing about other companies who hasnt got this issue “YET”, so please be a man, sue them if you think you got con, report to police . Dont curse and swear here. Be a man “IT” guy.
tats the power of internet, nobody knows who is who, and anybody can be anybody here, why don everybody juz treat everybody as anybody and focus on the discussion be it brokers or investors or passerby.
Now I am John
Now i am not John, I am Jack
Now I am not Jack, I am Jimmy
I really suspect how many real investors is in this forum discussing about New Age Wine Investment.Some come here once awhile, some comes in here more then 10 times a week cursing and swearing at other companies.What Desmond,BMX and the rest say is true, go to the companies that you invest for an answer, no point assuming here.You might have your say, others might have their say, there will be no ending stories.
I can see that Jappy is always telling us about XXX company, if you are investors, go and question them, if you are not investors, i would suggest you shut up. If you are with certain company who till now cant sell your wines,go and question them too,why didnt anyone go and question them during the talk on Sunday.
If you are with UAG who already proven it is close and run away with clients money, then go to the police and CAD and make a report.
I have my own stories to tell too. But i would not come hear and try to bullshit about things which i think would not give me an answer unless i go to the companies who i invest with.
To those brokers and boss of other company, please do not come here and slander certain people or certain companies as we real investors have already lost alot of money and got no time to listen to all of you slandering each other companies.Thank you and have a nice day.
You never will know who I am..because I can be John, I can be Jack, I can also be Jimmy, NO ONE KNOW WHO AM I ???
I am a wine investor, I am not a wine broker, but everyone knows me as Fred …
I suffered because I bought wine from UAG..but deep inside, I know sold many buy-back schemes to many suckers here, suckers still believing me that I could do magic by converting your BB into physical wines..
No, no, I am a victim of UAG but I can do magic..I can make your physical wine appear, but then please pay me some monies because I need the monies so that I could perform the tricks.
Trust me, I am a victim also and I am here to help you cause I have setup a new company and its purpose is to help you..
Believe me, I am no broker but a saint to help you..
No worries, I am not a brokers as all my brokers friend in this forum will jump to defence and swear by their gods that I am no broker but an investors just sharing and helping you..
I will do the same for my brokers friends, I swear they are not brokers as they ar just poor investors like you here..
For those who knows we are brokers, we will gang up and discredit you so that noone here will trust you since we all say you are broker ad majority wins…
Trust me, we are no UAG brokers because we have left UAG and we setup our new company..Yes, we did not lie to you, we are poor investors becuase we also bought buy-back schemes from DS..Luckily, we realise earlier that UAG will be gone and has been selling our BB to some suckers here…Unfortunately, we did not manage to sell all…Never mind, we will devise another BB schemes for you suckers here and we can unload to you..
We are great people, you know, we sell you the wine, when you want to sell, we buy from you cheap cheap and sell the wines to other suckers expensive..But pls wait until we find another sucker, dun chase us to sell…
Hi Stella,
Trust me…I am not fred, I am not Stanley, I am not Desmond, I am here to help you, give you advise..
Believe me, I do magic…I make your money disappear..it is so easy..Trust me, give me the money and you see the magic fast..
Love me, i can do more magic than make your money disappear..I can make my company disappear and all your wines disappear too..
Dun believe me, give it a try, nothing to lose…
Sorry got to go, time to meet up with ex-fellow UAG brokers to devise strategies for tomorrow as to how to scam more investors..
Looks like I’m the only one who spoke to Alvin that day at the AWI booth.
Alvin, I know you are reading this forum, I told you I’ll take your words what you have assurred me on the day, you know what you need to do to proof what had been said about you in this forum is not true.
Please let your trading people really do their job, if there is sales result, I’m pretty sure the real AWI investors in this forum will help to justify AWI is for real and not what whoever in this forum has described. I’m using my real name, you know who am I.
Lionel
Hi everyone, it is not weekend yet but I noticed that the temperature here is getting very high. Why not something to sway the conversation. Can someone tell me why is the topic of the blog “New Age Wine Investment”? Maybe Ah Ti is correct, my English is not good cos I don’t understand the title.
Lionel,
I am Alvina….
many people talk to me…thank you for trusting me…yes yes I promise you…and i know you will justify to all that I am trustworthy…
Are you one the sucker who answer one of any quiz and won a bottle of wine (this wine belongs to some 3 investors but now found a founder for its physical bottle, no worries, the other 3 investors dun know the physical wine is gone..), thanks for investing 20K, that’s the price you paid for the free wine as ou have just bot wine that never exits under your name…they are all stored in the winery under my company name..
I am still working on another two suckers who won the other 2 bottles of wines..they will definitely invest with me as I have baited them with one bottle of wine..By the way, the wine gave away seems to the label owed by you..never mind you have the paper saying you own the wine…
Wow, waht is Alvine trying to implying? Come on Alvine, say it clearly if what you say is correct. No point using the forum to slag other companies. Be a real man.
Desmond, the key word you used is “Yet” Why wait for it to happen when we can nip it in the bud? Why wait for another UAG incident to happen again and it will happen again real soon. PLA and AWI and all the rest of the other wine in vestment companies sold wines at grossly inflated prices to unsuspecting new investors. This is a fact. It is only right for people like me to warn others and redirect all these investors to invest in other safer and legitimate investments and avoid anything to do with wine investment. I only mentioned PLA and AWI because I have documentary proof since I had invested with them but I am 100% convinced the rest of the other wine investment companies are even much more worse than PLA and AWI. I keep saying all wine investment companies cannot be trusted because they keep hiring the same people. All ex UAG brokers already recruited by all the rest of the wine investment companies because all wine investment companies dun care about quality control and integrity. Between breaking your rice bowl in here and saving hundreds of innocent investors from financial grief, I will gladly break your rice bowl since you dun deserve to have the rice bowl. Please don’t say I was greedy and my greed blinded me. If I wanted to see 50-200% returns on my investments, I would have invested in the stock market instead. I invested in wine ONLY because all you brokers told me that wines prices are very stable and my returns are between 8% to 15% a year!!!!!!!!!! I want stability and a reasonable returns but you wine brokers give me a nightmare instead. I am like those mini bond and Maddoff investors, whose only wish is to enjoy decent steady returns. Every single genuine investor in here lose 40-60% in less than 1 year so that means they bought their wines at high mark up.
I dare any wine broker to tell me that at least 50% of their clients made real money through wine investment. Dun tell me you help them make fake paper profits hor.
The only good thing I can say about AWI is that all the wines are in the clients name. Other than that, I got nothing good to say about them at all.
Lionel, i can say that Alvin Lim is always full of promises, the end of the day, the next person will be trading director andrew coming into the picture. yes maybe just for this once, he will sell your wines, yes and to other investors, and then you will write a good forum for them here stating they have traded your wines out.Get him to prove you in black and white that the wines are traded to auctions houses where they claim, get them show you black and white that the wines are sold out side of the clients data base, they will never be able to prove that.
I and many of many friends who invest with them have tried all ways, including numerous surprised visit to their office, numerous phone calls, numerous scream, till now, none sold. 1 of my friend’s even took his wines home and store. 1 thing i can be sure is, drink them and wait long long for them to sell, this is not gong to happen
To Thu..
I am a woman but I am a worst man than you…I am a wine broker but I guised myself here as a investor and a upright man..Actually, my purpose me is to tell people wine investment is good, and all wine investment companies are good and brokers are saints…Your investment is good forour economy, you paid for me to wine and dine, buy sports car and buy property, you know how many jobs you created and saved by investing with me…though you never see your money back, the monies are well spend-the resturants i dine got dough to pay it chefs, the pubs got dough to pay its beautiful hostness, ERA got commssions and its property agents also earn, govt also earn COE from my new Lexus….Can’t you see how much good you have done by allowing to scam your monies, so many so many people benefited from it…
Come people, come people, believe me ,we doing good for society…invest with me..my wine company is best in Singapore and also in batam…
No worries, i do magic, i convert paper to phyiscal wines..I can also vanish physical wines..i buy the wines from the wine storage company and ask the company to store the wine into its premise..if course you pay me, I no pay them, I use the monies to stimulate the economy- hotel, resturants, cars, property…No worries, the wine company cannot chase me because I can do disappearing act..
You want your phyical wine, no problem…my good saint can do greater magic..you pay the wine storage company and transfer the physcial wines to his wine storage company..I can gurantee that Fred can do better disappearing acts..
Hi all,
Please take note that the yahoo discussion group for UAG matter is changed to
http://finance. groups.yahoo. com/group/ Singapore- UAG-wine- investment- or-Broker- discussion- forum/
Cheers
uag_investor@yahoo.com.sg
Apologies, re-post the message
It seems that the earlier link is problematic.
The new link is at
http://finance. groups.yahoo. com/group/Singapore-UAG-wine-investment-or-Broker-discussion-forum/
Cheers
uag_investor@yahoo.com.sg
Damn, the 2nd link is broken again.
Resent the 3rd time.
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Singapore-UAG-wine-investment-or-Broker-discussion-forum/
Cheers
uag_investor@yahoo.com.sg
Thus, there is only one thing to do with your posting – ignore it. Next time won’t even be bothered to comment.
Thu,
Next time you won’t know the posting is from me, because I am a master of disguise…Like many other here, I am hiding behind the screen.
No hard feeling please, my postings are digging at those brokers hiding behind the screen and the postings they had made…The messages are so obvious to hightlight the intent of these brokers.
Jappy – You said yesterday at 5.55pm posting that a broker from PLA called you regarding the wine ownership & such…. OK so we’re quite sure now that wines from PLA will be stored in PLA name unless >300k portfolio. That’s constructive so far appreciate it : )
You also mentioned at 11.13pm that wines bought by you were highly inflated.. ie if you got a share during Q3 2008 at SGD10-00 & recently the price dropped to SGD5-00, are you also saying that you got that share at inflated price too??
Seemed also from yesterday that there are now quite a few idiots coming into this forum & started slandering BIG TIME!! What are you fellas thinking??? Is that gonna hurt someone you’re targetting at or trying to get back at some co you previously worked for maybe?? I’m just curious & find it childish as well while reading.
Hi Whines,
Not sure whether those “idiots” mentioned by you are really idiots or are they those who are smarter now after suffering failed uninvestment from UAG..I also wondering are they slandering or just sharing how they can scam and now showing how the scams work..
I could sense that there are many wolves in sheep’s clothings within the forum…Somehow, I could sense the fishy smell of Stanley and Frederick around….
I could suggest true investors to join the closed forum such as the group formed by Tony..
Here, one could hide its identity and we dun know whether what is said is true or not.
Ya, I think Jappy is just too childish.
Is it possible for genuine investors to band together to form a website to sell our wines globally? At a lost or small profit doesn’t matter. Beats swinging crap in this forum
Thanks
I received a call from AWM. They offered me a wine call 2008 Syrius the Empire. Anyone heard about it? The broker said this is the best Australian Wine for the 2008 Vintage. Guarantee return of nett 10% per annum. He said highly rated by Robert Parker.
Please advise.
Thanks
AWM, oh god, they have lots of crap brokers. I received a call too, after checking, the wine got no history at all, i even went to parker website and surprised….Parker dont rates them, the broker is telling lie, i got hold of an article send to me from my awi broker, Robert Parker dont rates aussie wine any more. Also the wine is basically a shitty wine.Another guarantee..hahah. Never beieved again
I can’t believe you guys. If you are savvy enough to crawl your way here into this forum and post, you ought to be savvy enough to find out anything and everything you need and ought to know about wine investment on the web. There are mega tons of information on the web about wines, wine investment, do’s and don’ts. You can go to auction houses website like christie’s, sotheby’s and see what kind of wines were being sold in auction and how much they were fetching.
You can visit Parkers website, Jancis Robinson’s website, Berry Brothers website, Liv-ex website, Decanter etc etc and ALL THE INFORMATION YOU EVER NEED TO MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION IS ALL THERE FOR FREE!!! Don’t have to pay a single cent to any wine brokers to CONvince you!
I can tell you some of these wine brokers can’t even pronounced or spell the names of some of these wines properly, let alone advise you on what wines to invest.
If you have to come to a public forum to ask whether a 2008 australian wine is an investment grade wine, you shouldn’t be even thinking of investing in wine.
You owe it to yourself to learn everything you need to know about investing in wine. Its your hard earn money so the best person to advise you how to use it is yourself.
Hi EW, have the same thought as you. Might be worth considering
This forum started with UAG scam, then slandering PLA, follow by cursing AWI, then comes Dventuer, stanley, shawn, frederick,and now AWM…hmmmmm strange, how many brokers are there in here??
2008 Syrius the Empire…go yahoo and search, not worth invest, no value at all.For you info, another scam is going to happen soon.
I am puzzled that people wants interested to invest in wine..2008 Syrius the Empire..what kind of crap wine…
Hi EW & Wed,
I am in favor of investors blending together to get rid of our wine. But have one concern, after selling, can get back cash?? my worries is kana scam again and lose physical wine.
Should we want to sell, think must make sure creditable of the company or buyer…problem is we are not in this industry. Also, if sell locally, have to pay GST and liquor tax, which is easily 15%..
There are so many hidden cost-tax, transportation (land and shipping cost), custom duites (??), adminstration fees, etc..I dun really know..
Thus if we are expecting 20% loss (for example), incurring those charges can widen our loss to nearly 40%..
2008 Syrius the Empire?? Aussie wine??? Never heard before, cant find anything about this wine. BEWARE!!!!!!
Langton’s top 500 Aussie Wine 2007. There is probably a 2008 one somewhere.
http://www.wineaustralia.com/Europe/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=i4Xrvr1gnig%3D&tabid=1285
Any Aussie wine not in the list……you decide
Syrius whatever…..maybe not yet
HI, Lionel, if you are talking about Alvin Lim, I can say forget it. he is useless.
James, I got people calling me childish in here but I am fine with name calling since the wine brokers cannot do anything to prevent me from speaking the truth. Everyone say I only single out AWI & PLA and that I must be a wine broker from the other companies. So, I am also sure that AWM, D’ventures, Profiteers etc etc are all going to be another scam company too. Please give me the names of the other wine investment companies that I have left out so far and I will also say the same thing about them. You go down to Tras Street and see how many new wine investment companies are being set up regularly and how these new companies poach brokers from the other companies.
i got a call from some American guy from AWI yesterday. he claim that he is exbroker from JPmorgan, come down here especially to look afetr key accounts and is some bigshot. He is so RUDE does not even give me a chance to speak when HE CALLED ME. then he want to question my spending power. CCB! who the hell does he think he is. If you are such a hot shot stockbroker from JPMORGAN, why the hell would you come to singapore to sell crappy wine investments? FOOL! Dont let this guy hang up on you , HANG UP ON HIM FIRST! After he called me a jerk and slam the phone. REALLY AWI, is this how you speak to your customers?! i am so shocked by this call i search about your company. This idoit obviously have small brains lah, he think he can make it in singapore by bullying people with his loud voice??? SINGAPOREANS not like that mate. Dont call people and verbally abuse them. i just want to warn you all first here, becareful of this guy who calls you.
Hi Jappy,
I only knew two UAG and Oracle personally…I invested with UAG and one ex-broker from UAG setup Oracle and offered me to transfer my wine from 12 degress to his arranged wine storage company. Also, he offered to help get back physical wines for BB scheme.
Hope you will be more careful if you deal with Oracle..Well, UAG has gone down and therefore no worries..
I believe real investors here are also aware of some other companies setup by UAG ex-brokers..maybe can share info…
Hi Dennis
AWI brokers are all the same, the will slam the phone if you not keen. most likely train by the “sales director: alvin lim, he is the worst of all. wonder why awi got him as “sales director”. none of my friends like him , he is always full of shit on the phone or at the wine tasting.if the american guy will to call me , i will definitely give him a good time on the phone.
Hi
My 1st broker in AWI pass away and I was given to Alvin Lim.Never once when he call me is to update me about my wines, but he just interested in getting me to buy. He slam the phone on me when I say I am Not keen.He do not have a sense of professional,even when i call and ask him questions, he will either dont know how to answer me , or he will say call me back, but end of the day, disappeared.
When i call up to request to change a broker, he gets nasty and make noise on the phone. shit him guys
Hi Jenny – wow 10% returns on that aussie wine recommended?? Another guarantee thingy again ya so is simple ya…. Just forget about it. Yes somebody in here already mentioned that Parker doesn’t rate Aussie wines anymore so is obvious was a LIE told to you.
From what I gathered, only Penfolds Grange & Astralis are worthy Aussie wines for investment.
To Jappy again – you mean that are more than just PLA at Tras Street?? What are the other wine investment co there??
That Alvin Lim from AWI is just a AH BENG !!!
agree. Alvin Lim,he only know how to lie his ways, cos AWI boss himself lie in Aussie too, thats why alvin lim is also same same.Really burn my head when saw this alvin lim name.He keep asking asking to buy, you dont buy he will slam phone. I spend monie invest,he still can treat me this way.sometime really feel like slapping him on the face.Told my wife about it and immediately she ask to change broker and stop buy.Lucky i change and stop buy, if not i will stuck more monie in AWI.
HI everyone I heard recently 1 whole group of brokers left AWI, are they in some problems?? I called my broker mobile, but his phone off?? Call office, they say will update me with new broker. Anyone know what happened???
Alvin Lim again. I agreed 1000% what was say about him,maybe worst.
HiHi.Me too have issue with this Alvin,really not met anyone worst then him.Nothing good to say about him, bad things maybe tell 1 week also cant finish.
Confirm, went to Menlo with my friend.Confirm some of the wines AWI buy from HTB,the words is there at the warehouse for you all to see. Those who dont believed go down to all their ware houses and see yourself.
http://bordeaux-undiscovered.blogspot.com/2009/07/eis-tax-efficient-opportunities-in-fine.html
Tan, can you kindly post some photos to confirm that some of the wines are from HTB?
Hi All Genuine Wine Investors, as promised, I am back to update you that the Police have not contacted me ever since PLA claimed in here that they have filed a Police Report against me for accusing them of running a Ponzi Scheme. This is not surprising given that if they can lie about wine investment, they can lie just about everything else.
I am keen to meet other genuine wine investors in person and band together to recover our wines from all the wine investment companies. Those wine investors who want to contact me can email me at wineinvestmentsucks@gmail.com. We shall have our first meeting at Menlo Warehouse and the main agenda of the meeting is to settle the issue once and for all as to whether or not AWI purchase their wines from HTB. Also, Menlo only allows genuine wine investors with personal accounts at Menlo to enter their premises so if you are a wine broker trying to stir up shit with me face to face, you will be caught out at Menlo as they do not entertain wine brokers.
Once I have seen you guys and know you are the real investors, you can then accompany me to my lawyers office for legal advice. Not to worry, I have already paid for their services and you guys only need to sit in with me and get some free legal advice. After that, we can then plan our next moves together.
Australian fine wine SOARS in value:
http://www.decanter.com/news/286764.html
Why can’t they sell your aussie wines if prices are soaring?
Greed, even if Aussie wines prices go up, wine investments companies cannot sell off your wines if they do not have direct dealings with the auction houses. I am not aware of any local wine investment companies having traded off investors wines through auction. Local wine merchants and retailers only take in your wine if it is at least 50% less than the internet prices so you need your aussie wines to soar by at least 100% in order to exit with minimum losses.
This forum is getting very interesting. Everything that is said about wine investment is all negative and PLA seems to be the only wine investment company that received some positive feedback until someone said they cheated his money and they then threatened to sue him for saying that they cheated him.
Wine that is not yet bottled up is sold en premier and that presents a lot of opportunity for wine investment companies to collects lots of money for wine that is still in barrel. But what proof is there that the money has gone to pay the winery other than some documents issued by the wine investment company and not from the winery.
I am also very tempted to set up wine investment company. I rent a nice office and hire webpage designer to design solid website. Hire saleman to do cold call based on commission so i can keep my manpower costs down. Collect money from investors, print some documents on wine investment and sale receipts to acknowledge that I received your cash to buy the wines and then use the money to buy expensive cars, houses etc or even to set up wine fund to nab more richer and sophiscated investors. If I am selling en premier, I do not even need to cough out any cash to buy any physical wines but if I am selling bottled wines, I will buy some wines from local merchant or overseas and sell at high price and tell you that you need to wait 3 to 5 years to see profits. Either way, I got at least a few years to play around with investor money. But I no need to worry about reselling the wines because I got new customers to sustain the cash flow and I do not even need to buy any wines if they are en premier and old customers cannot sue me because I can disclaimer clause in sale document and website to say that I never promised you that I can sell your wines for profit and no salesmen can bind the company by verbal promises.
Wow, this kind of business even better than operating niteclub or casino because no need licence from Govt or MAS. And if too many investors start to chase for their wines to be sold or to show proof that I had paid their money to the winery, I can simply shut down my office and disconnect the phone line and because it is a private limited company, I cannot be touched by anybody including the Police and Govt even though it is a like a ponzi scheme. I wish I had started this business earlier instead of now because there are too many wine investment companies competing for that few investors who are too trusting and naive.
David, I am afraid that you are getting into a dead end. You will not have any case against AWI if your complaints are not being able to exit your investment or wine being sourced from HTB (which I doubt). The first issue is a matter of pricing. As for the second one, in the event that some of the wines are indeed bought from HTB, documentary proof that AWI claims the wine is sourced from the winery is required. Verbal claims are not strong unless you can find other investors to back you up. Note that Tan has not replied to my request for photos showing that the wine is bought from HTB.
Hi, just came across this article entitled “Australian fine wines soar in value” dated 24 Jul under decanter.com.
just a marketing strategy… if not these wineries are going broke……. they need to sell their wines to these wine investment companies to sell to ppl, cos if not nobody wanna drink their wines……. cos they are having over supply of too many aussie wines………
Any news?
Thanks James and Wed.
We don’t need to set up anything fancy. Just get someone who is knowledgeable in building an Internet site and we just download photos of wines from an external website to paste into ours and put in a receommended sale price. Of cos these wines we sell should already be in our portfolio, so consolidating a list from your latest valuation report if any is important. (I have an excel spreadsheet tracking how much I bought and what labels I bought)
Over time, we can also sell other stuff much like eBay. Overall, even if we sell at a loss, we are still getting most of our money back instead of sitting on empty promises and lamenting in here. If you’re in the same thought or any genuine investor is interested, please get them to come together and get our stuff moving. Thanks
As for the shipping and custom charges, we will specify that buyer bear these costs and we will ship once full payment is received in a PayPal account. We will then provide shipping documentation to buyers for tracking purposes. And since most of our wines are sitting in bonded warehouses, we do not incur and custom charges for onward exports.
this web is just all brokers from PLA
Besides the obvious one:
“Premium Liquid Assets(PLA) on July 16th, 2009 at 5:32 pm”
Who are the rest ?
Stupid – So are you from PLA too?? Please be constructive.. whether or not from PLA, AWI etc…. they’re here to comment & share experiences. Are you telling me that you’ve not learnt anything so far after reading thru all these postings??
Wow all gone silent since 30 July?? What happened??
after 30 July, all drink the wine and got drunk already
zzzzzzzzzz. forget about wine investment ,invest in stock market and property better
Whines – What happened is that all the wine brokers losing all their clients and their wine investment companies are running out of cash to fund their operations. Too much bad publicity in the ST & Internet have scared off many potential suckers and no more victims means no more cash flow. All the wine brokers where got time to post in here when they are now thinking about how to meet their quotas.
SINGAPORE: Singaporeans now have a new consumer watchdog that looks after their interests in financial investments.
ADVERTISEMENT
The Financial Services Consumer Association or “FiSCA” has been started by former chief of NTUC Income, Mr Tan Kin Lian.
And FiSCA plans to register 10,000 members within a year. That’s when it said it will have enough resources to set up a resolution and mediation centre to help consumers affected by the mis—selling of financial products.
I would advise to anyone who currently has a wine investment portfolio to consult the association and also bring the contract of agreement between yourself and the company to the attention of a legal authority.
I strongly advise all who still have money parked in wine investment companies that still are around to get it out, before they pack up shop and leave the shores. Especially those who have been trapped in their wine investments for 4 years or more unable to trade out.
It is worth the legal fees now to do all you can , before you see the company close and suffer in anger.
News article for your reference: http://sg.news.yahoo.com/cna/20090825/tap-782-new-consumer-watchdog-look-inter-231650b.html
Singapore, 8 September 2009…MAS has issued the first part of its response to feedback on the proposals in the Consultation Paper on the Review of the Regulatory Regime Governing the Sale and Marketing of Unlisted Investment Products
http://www.mas.gov.sg/news_room/press_releases/2009/MAS_Issues_First_Part_of_Response_to_Feedback_on_Proposals_to_Strengthen_the_Regulation_of_the_Sale_and_Marketing_of_Unlisted_Investment_Products.html
I am from australia, and i would definatley not be investing in aussie wines here in singapore. Don’t you guys know that the Australian wine investment fund on the stock exchange was recently delisted??? The article is below. On a global perspective , no one is going to buy back your australian wines for the inflated prices which you are paying for in your ‘investment’. Why buy from singapore, when i can buy direct from australia at even better prices! Also i know merchants in singapore who sell wines at cheaper prices than what australian wine investment companies in singapore are trying to ‘load’ off into the singapore market for.
The truth is, as a wine collector i would not even consider buying stock from singapore.. as firstly there ample suppliers in australia who bought lower than you singaporeans did per bottle, and secondly those wines which have be re-sold into the market .. there will be doubt surrounding their provenance.
Who ever thought of fleecing singaporeans with this wine investment idea is probaly a bloody rich bastard by now. I cant believe that the goverment is not regulating this sort of business practice here!!
Wine Investment Fund Delisted – Jul 2009
International Wine Investment Fund has been officially delisted from the Australian stock exchange.
The company was removed from the stock exchange yesterday after shareholders voted last month to delist the fund.
A director, Jim Caddy, says delisting will reduce the company’s costs and allow it to continue an asset sale.
He says the decision was made to wind up the company about a year ago because the wine industry was expected to experience a significant downsizing.
But he says the current economic climate has made it impossible to find acceptable prices for remaining assets.
Australian Broadcasting News Link: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/22/2633207.htm
I am a business man based in New York; I deal on wine and have a wine factory in Mexico and Argentina. If you are willing and ready to do business with me please I need genuine and interested businessmen and woman not suckers and scammers because I am not in for that ok
You can reach me at +1 917 477 7683 and you can also contact through email at Christ_onu2003@yahoo.com
Cheers
Chris
Decidedly your pharmaceutical has been verified, [url=http://www.noemalab.org/e-learning/user/view.php?id=1502&course=1]buy Viagra online[/url]
your caste amusement be shipped secondary emptied from the online pharmacies warehouse. Online pharmacies uses these warehouses as it helps living their raised low.
Deutschland sucht den Superstar und das Supertalent:
Wer steckt wohl hinter den ganzen Bohlen-Sprüchen aus den RTL-Shows, DSDS usw.?
Es ist kein Geringerer als Gerd Graf Bernadotte af Wisborg, der Dieter Bohlen diese Sprüche in den Mund legt!
Graf Bernadotte ist langjähriger Berater des Poptitan Dieter Bohlen und lancierte auch schon Nadja Abd el Farrag (Naddel) auf über 1000 Schlagzeilen.
Seit Jahren ist Gerd Graf Bernadotte für die Sprüche des Pop-Titanen verantwortlich.
Wir dürfen uns über weitere Sprüche des Grafen Bernadotte freuen und hoffen, dass Dieter Bohlen
noch viele davon einsetzt.
Gruss
Ken
Bernadotte ist der Name des regierenden Geschlechtes des Königreichs Schweden. Gerd Graf Bernadottes Großvater
wurde bekannt durch den Umbau der Insel Mainau im Bodensee in ein Blumenparadies, das jährlich von über einer Million Touristen besucht wird.
Gerd Graf Bernadotte erwartet einen zufällig entdeckten Erbanspruch, welcher auch in die Formel Eins fließen soll. Laut Notar handelt es sich bei dem Erbe des
Königs von Schweden, Gustav VI. (bis 1973) um 25 Millionen Schwedische Kronen. Hochgerechnet zzgl. Zinsen bei der Svenska Handelsbank in Stockholm handelt es sich
dabei um ein Sümmchen von 55 Millionen Euro.
???
Take my advice.. DONT BUY any wine from any wine broker, namely Equity Wine Investment.. I bot 150 thousand dollar worth of Bordeaux since Nov 2007,they sold me at a cut throat price which I was totally unaware and the price went up and I tried to sell them..till now those guys went MIA and never pick my call except the clerk who keep saying the boss is not around. These guys are worst than the Pirates.. they are a bunch of cheaters and lairs..wolf in sheep clothing.. deserve to be slaughter..
Aron, what have you done about this ?
If you bought them in Nov 2007, that wasn’t much profit before prices started plunging from end 08. Were they enough to cover the sales commission ?
anybody successful sell away your wine prevously buy from uag
company, vino, called to offer to buy. but i told them i dont even know where is the wine. another scam
watch out
I made so research on the Sims brothers seems like this Dominic Sim was an Air Steward and his brother Dino Sim was sentenced to jail for Drug trafficking and Consumption charges back in early 2000 and was sentenced to a few years in prison and some strokes of cane. Ahhhhhhhh cheated by a family of jailbirds ……. should put them all where they belong CHANGI !!!!!!!
There are a bunch of similarly disgruntled investors with Australian Wine Index. Basically we have had similar experience of encountering delay tactics and empty promises from Trading Director Andrew Bassett. I have instructed them to sell my wines since June 2008, and to date, I haven’t seen any money, nor any proactive updates from Andrew Bassett about what they are doing to sell my wines on the market. Contrast that with the calls I got every other week from AWI brokers when they wanted me to invest in more wines.
Just earlier this year, after repeated chasing, Andrew Bassett explained to me that I would have to sell my wine at a loss because market was bad. Well, I just saw on Andrew Bassett’s video interview on CNBC in July 2009, that he mentioned “nobody should lose any money investing in fine wines” — a deceptive and misleading misrepresentation of the promise of fine wine investment, considering what he has advised me in private.
I tried selling my wines with another wine brokerage firm, the feedback I got was that what I bought (under the strong recommendation of AWI) was not even of investment grade. Australian Wine Index is clearly known among the industry to hard sell to prospective investors with no clear exit strategies. It is certainly incredible that media like Straits Times and CNBC would run articles quoting Andrew Bassett as some “authoritative voice” in fine wine investment. The throng of disgruntled AWI investors in Singapore clearly shows that he is no where near as knowledgeable, competent, or trustworthy as he appears to be.
Like some in the forum, I am having doubts over my investments in Wine. According to Equity wine, my investment in supposedly a superb vintage (2006) has now gone done in value to even below the en primeur prices that i paid them for, which seems to defy the logic of wine investing, given that the 2006 vintage should be bottled by now and must have appreciated in value somewhat. Moreover, this is a huge drop since their last valuation report in May. Investment climate has risen considerably since March this year, with the share market increasing by huge amounts. There seems not to be any basis for a drop in prices.
In any case, my biggest question to all fellow disgruntled wine investers is this: What can we do to get our money back? Has anyone lodged any complaint, or sued, or managed to get back their initial investment sum etc?
It would be great to share with others on how to get back our money instead of just voicing out our displeasure
Correction: The vintage I meantioned should be 2005
Hey guys, my gf invested in the physical wine, not the paper one. Today someone from http://www.vinoenprimeur.com/ called her and said they are interested in buying over the wine.
How credible is that?
Hi disgruntled, who is you broker at Equitywine? Mine has left and I am not sure if they have assign anyone to service my account as I hardly hear from the company at all. They only send me renewal notice asking me to pay for insurance. Not sure if I should continue to pay.
Into a nice, are privy to?Find meditation difficult, hormones do not.We will tell, since and.More uninviting parts tv downloads, time days pills per day.Student to do, opinions and feelings.,
Dear all,
I was with one of the mentioned above companies on this site for no more than one months, untill i found out that wine investments in singapore is extremly illiquid, and un-regulated form of investment for singaproeans. Sure brokers can call you selling some facts and figures and hope to catch you off guard and with some spare money to invest. Basically, all the brokers get 8-10% of your investment as the pay check. The more they sell to you, the faster money they make, then they get out. As mentioned previously.. THERE IS NO EXIT STRATEGY. Wines are not traded in SINGAPORE full stop. Even if they assure you that they speak or trade in crates, or give you the excuse that they are putting your physical stock on markets waiting for come backs..its just delay tactic. Australia would not want to buy back the wines from you, esepecially when they are selling way cheaper than the price you originally bought as “investment”. Please save yourself the trouble, DO NOT GO TO THE HEAD OFFICE . STAY AWAY! This is another hard tactic which they use to get you face to face and push their sales even more. Sure they will show you the fancy office, nice business cards with many regional offices THIS IS TO TRY AND REASSURE YOU AND GAIN YOUR TRUST. The HK office isnt even manned. Everything is diverted to SINGAPORE OFFICE. Its just for show!!!!!
Everyone knows it, from the office manager to the IT staff, the company is a joke, a cash cow for the greedy directors with no education and criminal records in the company. that’s why (if you are a current investor) holding wines trying to trade off, you will notice that no one is really intersted to entertain you. Even the manner in which the directors talk to you would be aggressive and hard and pushy.
If you have recently invested in wines, and they are yet to arrive on shore, its still possible to cancel your investment and get a refund. IF they dont want to entertain you, just hire a lawyer , trust me it will be well worth it to get out before you are stuck with some very overpriced and poor investment physical stock.
I hope that everyone will read this before considering wine investments in singapore, and that the new year will bring forth better oppurtunites and prosperity than 2009.
And to those who are even thinking of becomming a wine broker for any wine investment companies, think again unless scamming,decieving and being spineless in your forte.
I’m an investor with AWI. I’ve the same problem who most, if not all, investors with AWI. I can’t off-load my wines.
I must admit that I did not do my own due-diligence checks and got involve mostly based on their promises of 10%-15% yearly returns. Anyway, I did my own analysis and the following are my findings:
1. AWI sell most of their wines between 10%-30% above market price. If the wines are not in the market yet, they took the nearest year available wine and use it as a guide. They do have some good bargains, but not much.
2. Good wines do appreciate between 5%-15% yearly, but if we brought the wines at 30% above market value, it will take us at least 3 years to break-even and even more to make profits.
3. I think AWI already made money when they sell the wines to us. I’m ok for them making money from our purchases. But at 30%! It’s a bit too high.
4. Most wines are traded in Australia, London and Hong Kong. By having our wine here, in Singapore, most buyers don’t want the trouble of transporting large quantity of wines across the seas. I think AWI have problem off-loading their wines because of this.
5. Wines is not liquid, it’ll take about 3 to 6 months before you can find a buyer and start the sales process. By the time you got your money, it could be 9 months time.
6. Overall, I think AWI is just a company selling Australian wines in Singapore. Their plan is to bring in Australian wine and sell them to us. Period! There is no exit plan.
The good news is… We own our wines.
I’ll wait for a couple of months and see if they can change things around. If not, I’m planning to setup a own website and sell the wine myself.
Cheers.
Another AWI stories. They are hopeless la. DONT invest with them.
I ever worked for this screwed up compnay. Saw their means and ways of conning clients. These so call brokers are just some good looking fellows with no brains but sweet talk.Dominic and Dino seriously love to HAO LIAN all the time.The Boss never kept his promise of what he said.
This is what happens…
anyone managed to sell their AWI wine investment?? If not, has anyone try taking them out for own consumption?? I believe there is alcohol duties to be paid before one can take them out…just not sure if the cost is worth it..
Sadly, I am also a victim of AWI. From the many posts above, I guess I am now more prepared to kiss my $$ goodbye… ouch.
hi everyone, tks fr the bottom of my heart for a site like this, which i think has saved my a$$ becos i nearly put in $10k with them to invest in a batch of “once in a lifetime” opportunity excellent wines. does anyone of u do get pestered by this guy called goldsmith? he calls me almost everyday to give his advise, and ask why i suddenly dun wan to buy? i feel a bit pai seh to change my mind, but i aso scared to lose my money lah… can i have your thoughts and advises?
ant, just tell them you are no longer interested as you have heard from numerous disgrunted investors about the pitfalls of such investments and direct goldsmith,locksmith and whatever smiths to this forum here.
And be afraid or fell pai seh to cut them off when they call, you have the right, especially if you have told them nicely not to call anymore and if they still persist, cut them off. If they pester you on why you change your mind, tell them you dont owe them an explanation. They prey on people like you that dont know how to say no and tend to be nice and polite. You will regret.
All these telemarketeers are such a pests. Cannot understand what is “not interested” and “please don’t call me again”.
hi greed, thanks for the tip. yah lor, this guy called kevin or calvin or kelvin goldsmith keep calling me to buy. i tried to block his phone from my phone, but he switched to another number. when i blocked that it seems he called from private number.!@#$%^! wish he could leave me along. i dun wan to loss my hard earn money!! thank you greed – i am gratefull for your advises.
Hi Ant,
Yup, Greed is right. Just tell them you do not want this wine investment nicely. If they still pester, just hang up. No need to explain or be too nice… I bought a small qty after the sales guy kept pestering… so dun fall for the same trick… when they ask me to buy more, i told them that i will buy more if they can sell my existing bottles… after that no more calls from them to ask me to buy more…it is that bad… they only ask you to buy and buy….but when you request them to sell…they cannot even sell a single bottle.. I wonder why govt allow this kind of company or biz in singapore?? wonder which govt board can/will handle this before more pple get conned…
Correct. It’s your money at risk.. be firm. I’ve heard of a lot of people losing money in wines due to rouge companies, especially in Singapore where it is illiquid (You can’t sell off the wines fast). The auctions are done mainly in Hong Kong. Furthermore, shipping and high commission charges cuts a large chunk of your profit (if any at all)! And if no one wants to buy your wine, you’re stuck with the stock.. They always say that if you can’t find anyone to buy your wine, they tell you that you can always enjoy the fine wine by drinking it.. Well, I wouldn’t dream of ordering a bottle of wine that costs a few thousand dollars at a restraunt! So why would you drink your own investment grade wines?
Yup, but to drink them, you still have to pay alcohol taxes to bring them out of the warehouse. Luckily, I only put a small amount and per bottle is not too ex as well… but still hard earned money… So if they cannot sell my wine, I will make enough noise to alert pple of these dubious wine investment, newspapers is one way lor..internet forums, etc, etc…
Hidden costs and a false sense of security. Why take the risk with a MAS unregulated investment vehicle? In the eyes of the law, they are like Cold Storage / Carrefour selling you retail wine, just that the bottles are in a bonded warehouse so you don’t have to pay GST until you take them out of the bonded warehouse for your own use. GST is not charged (in Singapore) if you export the bottles.
I would love to write and say what a excellent job you have on this.
hi grant burge and Trevor, thanks for your inputs. i appreciate! it seems i will have to avoid awi at all costs, though i think it will be difficult to avoid this fella’s calls and emails
… guess i will have to be strong… thanks for all your supports! i will continue in this column to help other in future. ant.
Hi Ant, glad that at least these postings have saved you from such dubious wine investment…from postings, i believe it is not just AWI… like what Trevor pointed, it is any unregulated investment… oilpods, wine and AWI are just a couple of them…
http://www.lioninvestor.com/oilpods-update/
Take care.
Hi,
i was introduced to wine investing by this company based in Hong Kong called Premier Grand Cru Hong Kong. They are trying to ask me to invest in a case of Chateau Lafite Rothschild 2003 OWC for GBP8325 (about S$18,900). Has anyone dealt with this company before and is this price reasonable for this vintage?
Alfred
Alfred, if you have to seek advice on a forum and has no clue whether the price is reasonable for a given vintage, than I suggest you stay off this kind of investment. Unless you are very clear and know exactly what you are getting yourself into, you are better off just sticking to mainstream investment products.
Yes, there are serious collectors who can actually make some decent gains in their wine investment but these are people who not only understand the wines but also the market itself.
Dear Folks,
Any clue which company is interested to buy off individual’s wine investments?
Started invesment in Oct 2007 and broker AWI is not interested in assisting in selling off my investments.
Pauline, if you are selling at significantly below market price, than there might possibly be some interest from the local merchants. Otherwise, take a number and join the queue.
greed,
thanks and i suppose my question is answered.
Its very simple if you do not want pesky companies like AWI calling you anymore. When you pick up, let them just do their sales garbage talk to try and gain the authoritative position on you (don’t interrupt or ask questions as this may may give them even more oppurtunity to use it as a way to turn it around get you into the corner), then simply tell them ” NO I AM NOT INTERESTED, DO NOT CALL ME AGAIN. TAKE ME OFF YOUR DATABASE” the magic words are ” TAKE ME OFF YOUR DATABASE” if not, you will remain in there for years to come, and it will be given to “NEW” brokers to practice their intro calls on.
If after the warning, and pesky company like AWI still persist to call, even after your request to be taken OFF THE DATABASE and DO NOT CALL. you can report their misconduct through the singapore business authorities.
Trust me, unless you ask to be take off the database, they will still retain your name, phone number, address for years to come. And you wil be the new target practise for new brokers/scammers.
Can anyone share with me their understanding about a company – Premium Liquid Assets Pte Ltd? their Investment Manager had been bombarding me with promises of superb returns for months before I finally gave in to sink in my funds. They even promised to take out my investments after 1~2 years as they can easily sell my investments to other investors at a great profit. Despite their super sale pitch that the fine wine investment will continue to appreciate regardless of economic cycle. I got panic when I suddenly could not locate the online monthly valuation towards end 2008. When threaten to report them to CAD, PLA reluctantly gave me the valuation but with a big loss. My investment is today still deeply under water even if the equity markets have recovered. Lately, I received more shocking news that some of their key executives had resigned and held no responsibility for the portfolio future performance…Adding to my suspicion, when questioned over numerous occasions for the basis of their wine valuation, PLA insisted it is prepared by their research but cant provide any substantive evidence. The company also refused to answer whether they are acting as pure broker or principal despite their lucrative brokerage fee. Need to learn from the community whether I should cut loss and severe the relationship with the company, or await for them to attract another sucker to take over my investment? I have lost faith in the company and am afraid that it could be another ponzi scheme as everything seems running like a blackbox.
Sound advice Darren:
Ant! why don’t you try following Darren’s advice(s)? Tell the guy that pesters you every day to STOP CALLING & REMOVE FROM DATABASE.
Do you think a ‘heavy’ salesman will waste their time calling a man who has no interest???
Ant. you must have given him a bone to chew on for him to call you every day….
Use your COJONES and be honest. tell him, it’s not a crime.
The internet makes wine investment extremely transparent. check prices, vintages and ratings. good wines are available, there is money to be made.
save time with the part-time blogging and full-time complaining and USE IT to search the wines that are offered. Radical, nes pas???
Unfortunately, Darren’s advice came too late for me…should I continue to stay put with PLA?
Ask to take delivery of your wines and sought the help of established merchants like Condale or Vinum to see if they can assist in finding a buyer for your wine.
Make sure you have those wine in your custody. If it is stored in France, the local merchants here can assist to take delivery for you (for a fee I am sure). If they cannot deliver the physical wine to you, than you better lodge a police report because you might have paid for something which don’t exist. This is what happened to UAG.
Thank you for your wise advice.
dear wine-o and Darren, thank you! yes, i think i shall try – no, WILL – get awi to remove me from their databases, and see if they calls me again.
the problem is, who should i complain to if they still call me ah?
so far, i think i very lucky to avaoid fall into their trap. only thing is they keeps calling me, bugging me. very persist. my ears are drop off liao
wine-o, i think i get your meaning about chewing bone. yes, i keep telling him i consider 1st then call him, but i never call him, so he always call back. haizz…
Hi Ant,
They keep calling you for a reason….to get you to part your money and ‘invest’ in wine… so just tell them you do not have any spare money for investment.. end of story…
Dun give them false hope that you will consider, just a simple, “sorry, i have got no money”.
They cannot get pple with no money to buy and eventually, they will just leave u alone.
Wishing all a Healthy, Happy and Prosperous Lunar New Year ahead.
dear grant burge, thank you for yor advises, and wish you Happy & Propserous New Year! -
Hi, i must say fantastic site you have, i stumbled across it in Yahoo. Does you get much traffic?
A Story to all
One day, my auntie came to me telling me she do not want to put her money in bank to earn 0.256% interest only. Thus, she told me to help her invest on anything that can earn money. OUT OF GOODWILL and after much persuation by the wine broker, we then invested in universal asset group wine. TIL NOW, I THINK ALL OF YOU ALREADY KNOW UAG SCAM.
After the incident, many has advised her to use her remainder money on property investment or business to recoup loses. She became suspicious to everybody and think that everyone trying to conn her money again. Beside losing money, she became slightly temperated, depressed, She started to halluscinate and think that i am involved in the scamming and are spreading the info to all relatives and may consider taking legal action against me. She then (Lose her mind)spend remainder of her money in 4-D thinking that she can recoup her loses but of course its the stupiditiest thing to do. NOW SHE LOSE EVERYTHING.
Morale of the story
1. Never be a busy body to help ANYONE invest. (I didn not get any cent at all but in return get shit.)
2. Never become greedy. So what if its 0.256%. Its always better than losing everything.
3. Face it positively and move on your life.
Never can i imagine the consequences but being “A good guy”. I seriously want her to be good all the while. She is indeed my dearest auntie and as well as my ‘God Mother’. Now that I lose her trust and might be facing legal issue. I don’t understand why she need to spend wasteful time and money again. ‘Sighz’…..The power of money is horrible. It all started just because of ‘Greed’. PLEASE HELP MY AUNT !! GOD!!!
Hi,
I found an informative publication which has given me not only a good lesson on how the Wine Investment works presented in clever Wine Investor key questions FAQ!
Also as it shows on the page I was contacted by a real good London wine brokerage house that’ve given me a nice call out of their pocket and explained their product and strategies and i am currently analyzing their documentation.
I`ve bookmarked the link http://www.worldequitynetwork.com/wine-publication/
I think i am going to take part on this one for sure however let me know what you think pls! It’s always good to get many opinion in these matters!
also welcome with any suggestion of other good wine brokerage.
Thanks
Demand for fine wine is growing
The price rises that we have seen for the very best product, driven largely by the super-wealthy and the new markets of the Far East, and to a lesser extent South America and elsewhere, are the ones that have grabbed the headlines, but it is important to note that these are not the only wines that are selling. The number of potential new wine lovers, drinkers, buyers and connoisseurs in this increasingly globalised market is unknown but constantly growing.
Hi Steven,
Can you enlighten me on which execs left PLA? I am in a similar situation, saddled with losses. Will now need to check if my broker is still around. Spoke to him a month ago though.
Greetings…
Discussions on the earths temperature increase – or global warming are generally too scientific to participate in – but, earthquakes and mass death cannot be disregarded as another statistic. Hundreds of thousads are dead and homeless
[b]Please offer financial or volunteer assistance to Chile and Haiti[/b]
http://www.google.com/relief/haitiearthquake/
6 arrested, australian wine scam, hope this will happened very soon with those australian wine companies in singapore.
http://www.decanter.com/news/295661.html
Below is happening in singapore too. Companies offer wine with no investment value is a crime.
Four wine dealers who targeted American investors and conned them out of over £1m received sentences of up to four and a half years last week.
Following a trial of more than three months, three people were found guilty of operating a fraudulent wine investment business that mainly targeted the American medical community.
The fourth defendant, Stephanie Callebaut, pleaded guilty just as the trial got underway at Southwark Crown Court. The case was brought by the Serious Fraud Office (SFO).
Shameen Suleman, a director of Vintage Wines of St Albans (VWSA), was imprisoned for 3½ years. Callebaut, a fellow director, was given a 12-month sentence. The other two defendants, who received sentences of 4½ and 2½ years, cannot be named for legal reasons.
Using high-pressure sales techniques VWSA offered wines that had no investment potential while promising big profits quickly.
This is in reply to Steven’s posting on February 10th, 2010 at 1:45 pm.
I am David, the same guy who posted my complaints in here last year about PLA and AWI and how PLA are basically are selling French wines at grossly inflated prices and the fact that investors do not have any direct ownership of those French wines. As you guys would recall, PLA made a police report against me and even circulated an email to all their clients claiming that they are reserving their rights to file a defamation suit against me for claiming that they were running a Ponzi scheme. I am still patiently waiting for their lawyer to commence legal proceedings but I guess it will never materialize since Truth is always a total and complete defence in the tort of Defamation.
I was able to get back my money less the 12% commission after much efforts. So my loss was about $6K+ which was the 12% commission but it is far much better than getting nothing back!!! Steven, what you should be doing now is to harass your original broker who sold you those wines to get him to refund you the money like what I did. If your original broker has left the company, then you must mentally be prepared to kiss your money good bye because no one will then take responsibility for your account.
I was able to harass him to return me the money because I was able to show proof that he and PLA sold me the French wines at 40-50% above the world prices at the point of sale. I have cut ties with PLA after getting my money back. Now I need to think of how I can get rid of my Aussie wines with AWI. It is much more difficult because the broker who sold me my Aussie wines was the same one who sold me my French wines after he left AWI to join PLA.
If you need further advice and help, email me at wineinvestmentsucks@gmail.com.
Guys, I have not been checking my Inbox lately but I checked it today and received an email from the editor of a well known high end magazine wanting to do an interview with me and any others who had fallen victim to wine investment fraud in Singapore. I have sent him a reply and have expressed an interest to do a face to face interview. Those of you who are interested to join me in being interviewed can send me an email at wineinvestmentsucks@gmail.com. I am looking forward to a group interview and would certainly like to meet up again with some of you guys who had met up with me for coffee last year.
Also, I am now trying to off load my Aussie wines to my wide network of clients in Singapore for their personal consumption and I can help you guys to promote your wines to them free of charge. You only need to email to me a list of your wine stock (without prices). If they are interested in making an offer, they will deal directly with you and I am in no way to be held responsible for anything because I am only the postman and my clients are all based in Singapore. Please note I am selling off my own wine stocks at below Internet prices so you guys should be realistic and not get upset if my clients offer local retail prices at the most. Also, please do not go and bullshit them about wine investments because they are too smart for that and they are only buying purely for personal drinking pleasure.
David, was your ‘investment’ with PLA only a total of 40 days or something? you should know, owing to your vast collection and knowledge of wine that investment in this sphere is a patience building exercise; i.e. 3 years+ to get better returns.
it seems to me that you ‘pulled a fast one’, well, tried to anyway. You yourself should have checked the wine prices when you bought your wines, no? there was internet wasn’t there? just like the quote below…
“Please note I am selling off my own wine stocks at below Internet prices so you guys should be realistic and not get upset if my clients offer local retail prices at the most. Also, please do not go and bullshit them about wine investments because they are too smart for that and they are only buying purely for personal drinking pleasure.”
readin between the lines, it looks like you are trying to get some good wines for hugely DEFLATED prices for your ‘too smart’ friends. You really must have a vast network to offload. Or not, because if they are going to be stupid offers made for peoples wines, then you only need a few rich friends and you can start off a new wine company, hey?!
My tip to the people who read this with their tales of “oh woe is me”, use the time on the net not to whine about wine on here, but to sell your own wines. try Ebay, or wine merchants here in Sing – there are plenty of them.
Hi everyon!
I just have fund this page, because I am writing a study about wine investments. I would like to have some questions, hope someone could help me. FIrst of all I can’t find time series, on the website of Liv-ex there are only index prices, and no data about a single vintage. Of course, there are, if you pay for it, but I can’t yet. So is there any free database I could use. Of course wines from Bordaux would be the best, but actually anything is goog, that can be describet with statistical tools.
Another question: when I look at the chart of the Liv-ex indexes, I see they keep stagnating untill the beginning of 2006, and after that they rise extremely fast. So, what has happend in 2006? I can’t find any argument which could reason this process.
Certainly I would be very happy if You could recommend to me any literature, about this topic. For example abot investment strategys I can’t faind anything, but any piece of information is useful.
Tank You very much in advance!
Best regards!
Hello just thought i would tell you something.. This is twice now i’ve landed on your blog in the last 3 weeks searching for completely unrelated things. Spooky or what? If you liketo exchange the links with us please let me know.
Wine-O,
I can tell you that what David mentioned about short-term investments has some truth in them (ie if he was a ‘genuine’ PLA investor). I was asked to invest in a the 07 for a month and the broker will flip that 1 month later for a 5% profit. That’s a cool $2000 for a $40000 investment. Catch is you pay first. Second point is, it’s only a verbal agreement.
This is not about a patience building exercise. I was a genuine PLA investor but I also have a right to demand back my money immediately if I discovered to my horror that I overpayed for my French Wines by 40-50%. In fact, my lawyer told me I did the right thing by acting fast on it because the longer you delay in demanding back your money, the harder it is for you to establish your claim in the courts especially in cases involving Misrepresentation.
Wine-O, let me make this clear to everyone again. My clients are Expatriates and they deal directly with you. You do not have to sell them anything if you find the prices too low and I play no part in this. When I was telling my Sob story to them, I only have 2 Aussie vintages in my wine portfolio so I lacked the variety needed to entice them to buy from me. Even if they were to buy from me, there is no way they are going to buy an entire case. I am mentally prepared to sell them one bottle at a time if need be. So I am just asking you guys if you want to be proactive in following me to cut our losses. If you are able to convince them to buy at a higher price, I’ll be happy for you.
I would love to be a long term wine investor too but the manner in which wine investment companies operating in Singapore have conducted their activities has sadly and rudely destroyed any interest and hope I have left for this investment route.
Lastly, when I bought my wines, I was still very new and raw to this type of investment and these wine brokers call you and hard sell to you and get you to buy the wines without giving you sufficient time to conduct your own research. I log on the Internet a day or 2 after buying my wines and then realized I had overpaid for the wines after checking the Interent retail prices. It is 100% my fault for not insisting that I checked everything before committing my hard earned money. Everyone of you in here made the same mistake too, so now is not the time for regrets anymore. Time to mitigate your losses. I was stupid and reckless in buying the Aussie and French Wines but so was everyone of you. Just admit it and do your best to recover your hard earned money like what I am trying to do now.
Just saw PLA booth at Suntec this weekend… They are employing young & sexy babes to promote wine inevstment…They are so alluring. Anyone got “lucky”?. Dont’t mind to part with my money hahaha
I have received AWI valuation, but cannot sell, so why they do valuation for.Anyone can advice?
I have made some investments in wine with AWI, but to date they are not able to give a current year valuation report, still giving me 2008.
Peter, is yours 2008 or 2009 ? Be careful cos only the title changes, the contents remain as 2008 values.
I am wondering if there are more clients of AWI like me.
I see many unhappy clients of AWI, I think we should team up and get the company to compensate us. Unity is strength, what do you think?
Mac, part with your money if you dare. Anyway 09 en primeur coming out soon. Tastings will begin soon. The 08 one went quite well. From launch to end last year,it went up from about 20K to 28K, even more now. Tidy profits in just a few months. But the question is, can you get them to sell for you ? Or which sucker will be convinced by these ladies to buy your portfolio after so much negative publicity. I’m still holding some of these ‘babies’, hopefully not the last.
Mac, you crazy ah!
Once you give them your money, it’s as good as gone.
If you like sexy babes, you can go to lots of great night spots. Use the money you wanted to invest with them, you definitely have lots of fun.
Why give them your money and let them have fun with another sexy babes?
You know if it is those fantasy thingy a girl trying to seduce u to buy something haha. I dont’ mind actually I am not rich but not poor either. Any of those babes here keen can contact me by leaving your email…haha
why not try researching En Primeur??? a recurring theme is people are here to whinge and whine about wine investment.
EP is buying wine futures. you do have to wait. buying ‘investment grade’ wine, you have to wait. to even consider that you can buy something and flip it in months for a healthy profit…. well, people would not be calling you lot, that is for sure. NOR would they be employing, er, what is it; fantasy thingy a girl – sexy babes – so alluring, blah blah. what is this? did you ever consider MAC LEE that they work there cos it is a job? and MAC, you only saw them – not spoke with them? what did you doo – behold them from a distance? obviously you will not get “lucky” then, will you? especially when spending most of your time hunched over a PC as a part-time blogger and full-time complainer.
and ADVOCATE; such a good name, but with your comments, expecting people to flip this for tidy profits. I believe your name should be ACROBAT. i.e. you belong in a circus and your comments make me flip!
If it was all this easy, there would be no salepeople – there would be a team of administrators completing paperwork and answering phone from people that want to buy. owing to making 5% in a month… come on people, get a grip. and incidentally, tastings have already begun for 09 EP. wine spectator has already published findings. and according to decanter.com the diff in price that consumers will pay from EP to wine merchant is about 200-250%. spend your time researching, so that you can type well-informed rubbish on here.
Wine-o,
I thought my English was simple enough for everyone to understand. Obviously Not! I am NOT telling or encouraging people to FLIP, just warning them against such tactics used over and over again. I didn’t fall for it, but am quite sure some people will eventually.
I certainly hope my investments can FLIP like an ACROBAT and reverse my losses. Wine-o, from your comments, it’s obvious you know about wines as well. Just which side are you on? There is no need to get so excited and start insulting people who bother to comment on what you wrote, whatever the intent is. So wine-o, please read my entries again and again and again properly before you shoot off personal attacks. The last few ‘insiders’ did exactly what you did, discrediting everybody. I hope you are not one of them.
CAVEAT EMPTOR everyone.
Wine-o,
To help you understand better, I will repeat everything with some simple explanations….
Advocate on March 26th, 2010 at 5:04 pm
Wine-O,
I can tell you that what David mentioned about short-term investments has some truth in them (ie if he was a ‘genuine’ PLA investor). I was asked to invest in a the 07 for a month and the broker will flip that 1 month later for a 5% profit. That’s a cool $2000 for a $40000 investment. Catch is you pay first. Second point is, it’s only a verbal agreement.
=> No such thing as a 5% profit in 1 month for EP investments. No such thing as flip one month later. Because it takes 2 months to complete an EP sales transaction before you see your money minus commission. Never trust what they tell you over the phone, must have black and white of guranteed profits, if not can sue them left, right and centre. Some loser tried this on me and he was quite persistent.
Advocate on March 30th, 2010 at 1:33 am
Mac, part with your money if you dare. Anyway 09 en primeur coming out soon. Tastings will begin soon. The 08 one went quite well. From launch to end last year,it went up from about 20K to 28K, even more now. Tidy profits in just a few months. But the question is, can you get them to sell for you ? Or which sucker will be convinced by these ladies to buy your portfolio after so much negative publicity. I’m still holding some of these ‘babies’, hopefully not the last.
==> 08 is doing better than 06 and 07 EPs. That’s because it’s priced significantlt lower and the poor economy has bottomed out. While 08 has gone through the roof, 06 and 07 are stagnant. I am just not sure what the modus operandi of EP sales is, way before the wines are even bottled. You get monthly updates of prices of 08 EPs climbing, but on selling, will you get your returns? What price index do they use to sell your wines or buy back themselves? Certainly not Liv-Ex……
With this, Wine-o, you should flip yourself if you still don’t understand.
O wine O you sound so much like a saint. By the way, no one askes you to comment on my post. So what if I find them alluring, did i force them to do a transaction with me… It is a buyer & seller thing. It takes two hand to clap. Dont act like someone who is a expert in wine and goes around commenting on people’s knowledge etc. Full of craps…omg
wine-o sounds like your typical wine-investment broker. You can tell that they like to quote from sources like decanter, wine-spectator and such. A lot of hype is building up for the 2009 campaign. Wine-investment brokers are going to tell you this is THE vintage of the century, better than 2005, die die must buy, dont buy you cry, can make lots of money…blah blah blah.
If you really want to own the 2009, just contact any local wine merchants here in Singapore who offers 2009 en primeur. At least you are dealing with established merchants that buy/sell physical wines and they certainly know the value of investment grade wines as well, if not better, than your wine-investment brokers.
I admit I cut loose a little with my comments. I live in Thailand and do have an interest in wine investment. I use a respected company in the UK, and I do tend to spend my time researching respectable sites such as decanter, WS and wine-searcher et al. While I am investing in it, it makes sense to learn more about it. I found this site by accident and, like most, have been drawn in to this black hole of tales. I was, I suppose offering tough love type advice as I did see ever-decreasing circles regarding the tales being told.
I stand by what I say with regard to utilising time to research the wines. There are wines from Australia and France that can and will make money, but time is relative and linear. Again, I sincerely apologise to mac and advocate- my constructive criticism was lost in the comments that I made.
Wine-o,
Apologies accepted. Let’s move on. The strategies of Singapore companies may be a little different. As David mentioned previously, I am really curious how they peg their trading prices to Liv-ex. Apparently mine is moving away from that and using their own index. A double-edged sword for me and future investors who go in blind.
Read this:
http://www.decanter.com/news/296535.html
Mac or anyone interested in investing EPs with the forementioned company/s, pls enquire about their exit strategies before you jump in. Can’t post too much info here due to concerns with legalities. Ask them and you will know what I mean. Better still, post what you know here so that we can discuss, especially if you don’t have any vested interest in them. Thanks ahead.
Exit Strategies? They can tell you beautiful stories about their exit strategies. Beware.
As for as I know, the only exit strategy is to sell the wine to another investor. For the business to continue to grow, they have to get more investors, not get more wines. The situation right now seems to be opposite, there are more wines than investors.
Wine O, I accept your apologies. My friend just bought 1 crate of marguex 2003 from a wine broker. When he wents to their “place”. He is so impressed by the setup…art pieces, nice “royal” sofas. You know normally the more impressive the place the more worried you are. But for him he is impressed by the setup and the worst of all the lady selling him the wine exposed herself to him a few times when serving him wine. haha. They mentioned that it is so hard to get the wine and only left a few crates? When he checks on the internet, it seems like there is plenty of supply. Now he is a bit worried especially the price seems to be high.
Wine O and Advocate do you know how much does 1 crates of Chateau Marguex 2003 cost now?
Hopefully he bought them after the price drop so may still have some potential as the Margaux 03 is a RP 99-pointer. Source may be from their recent purchases, old stock or most likely another investor selling off. Anyway ‘stocks are always running out fast’. My question is, at the end of 3 yrs if he wants to sell the Margaux 03, is the price based on a major wine index or some in-house index or at some wine auction in HK or Shanghai ???? I was thinking, would a crate of Margaux 03 really be put up for auction alongside crates of Romanee-Conti, LePin or Ausone ?? What are the expected returns ? Anyway the wine retails for about $1000 here. It has been priced around this range last 2-3 yrs. Unless you bought them much earlier, I don’t see any substantial profits. Personally though, I think it’s still a worthwhile investment if the company can sell it for you at a profit to the Chinese market for example, where affluence is likely to drive the prices of all these premium wines up, provided nothing untowards happens in the meantime.
I must qualify that I am no wine expert. I have invested in wine. Since losing a substantial amount off my portfolio, I have become more intent on researching into wine, like Wine-o. Wine investment has dropped off my investment list, my aim now is to look for the most favorable exit strategy without being taken for a ride again. I’m still looking for these answers. This forum has proven to be very helpful but one has to be objective. Ironically, as an investor of Bordeaux, I still prefer New World wines, esp the Californian oaked chardonnays and Aussie shiraz.
Advocate, thanks for the reply. My friend said that they told him the exit strategy is linked to a fund called “Premium Wine Fund”. Based on the performance of the fund, they will buy the wine from him i.e to say if the performance is good, then he can get a good price. But the question is that the fund is a closed-ended fund and I don’t think it is distributed through any banks here. Kind of mystery. What I find out is that the fund is managed by the ex-ceo of the wine broker. This is something which I find it uncomfortable.
Advocate, the price they are offering is slightly more expensive than the retail price of $1000 as you mentioned. This is expensive in view that as a investor we should be getting at a cheaper price as we are buying a crate. We did some research and shocked to find out that the same wine can be bought by $650 -$700 per bottle from some local reputable wine brokers. The only difference is that you need to bear your own shipping, storage, insurance in Singapore while the wine broker’s price is inclusive of shipping, insurance, storage at France
Mac,
I share your exact sentiments. So I assume he owns the wines and not buying into the Fund instead. Then again, if he’s paying more than the retail price, there is no way of him making a profit in the next 3-4 yrs as the retail price is likely to stay that way. The premium wine fund should be modelled after a French bank’s wine fund where investors invest a minimum $100-250K without buying any physical wines. Like you mentioned, it’s a closed ended fund. I don’t know which body regulates the prices in the fund or transaction prices outside the fund. I still don’t have the answers. Maybe your friend should ask for a propectus to see what is the actual capital in this fund. I think the minimum investment is $100K. In the meantime, not much choice except to sit out the insurance and hope that prices will go up. Good luck.
Wine-0, has your UK wine merchant adopted this fund-based exit strategy ?
Hi , anyone managed to sell awi wines so far??
I need some advice from people here. I have invested with them and till now unable to sell.could someone please help?
Very well written post. I recommend this realistic pussy and ass if you want a life like experience. The holes are really realistic and tight and the very real texture and smooth, soft skin is, to be honest better than the real thing – it feels like real vaginal and anal sex. Check it out at at http://www.realisticvaginaandass.com – it’s a great price too and well worth it. You won’t need any other male sex toy and it beats any fleshlight or tenga for realism. I think of it all day at work and when I get home I can’t wait to use it. Have fun…
Hi
I am a philanthropist.
I am an entrepreneur. I recognize great opportunity and take advantage
I am an investor.
I am looking for friends with similar interests.
email me at: danpop77@yahoo.com
Dan
New York
Hi Stanleytan,
I just I am in the same shit as you!
How can I contact you.
Who is your broker by the way.
Hi Stanley,
Do you mind sharing what your Aussie wines are and the prices you paid for them. Stopped my friend from buying some last April during the height of the UAG saga.
Hi Stanley, same boat here. I bought from AWI and now not getting any sold………
AWI will have a session in the Asia Trader & Investor Convention at Suntec on 24 Apr 10. Real scumbags!!
Wow, they really have the nerve……………
shall we go to their booth and complain loudly…would be better if the media or papers are there? is this legal?
??? AWI still dare to go for talk? WTF
Yes, maybe we should group together & unmask them during the talk..
do not invest with AWI (Australian Wine Index) if you value your money. They are nice to you initially when you buy from them but they will give all sort of excuses when you try asking them to sell. Either broker phone is engaged, brokers not around in office, get someone else to return your call, assigning you different wine brokers, are some of their tactics. I am stuck with my investments since year 2004. If you are currently holding wine investments with them, try to ask them to sell and judge for yourself whether what I mentioned above is true or not. This is especially so when you clearly indicated that you have no intention to invest more wine with them. Of course, I know of a friend who managed to get them to sell for a profit. But he must be one of the lucky ones. They sell some perhaps to show that they are authentic company and to show some results to us suckers. Reminds me of Ponzi scam.
Pray my God will punish these people and burn them in hell!!!
You guys have no clue of what I have been through looking for opinions on this.
I’m feelin good now that I found this web site.
I wonder when will the government do something to this AWI , wonder when will a relevant department voice out for all investors .Why nothing has happenned?? Is there anything that can be done?
Selling wine for investment with NO investment value is a crime. I just came across this article and it frightened me , some of the wines mentioned there are in my portfolio.
http://investdrinks-blog.blogspot.com/2010/03/six-arrested-in-new-world-wine-scam.html
I am lucky to go through the comments after being called up by one broker.
I will still spend money buying wines for drinking, but definitely not for investing.
Lastly, share the seemingly ironic quote from Plato in the brochure sent to me from a company whose name I won’t mention here:
“In vino veritas” (“in wine [there is the] truth”)
take a look at this article from the other day: http://www.decanter.com/news/296941.html
investment in wines do work – to make good money throughout whatever financial climate, it is best to be involved in the red Bordeaux wines’ the top 50, top 100 wines in the world. then, you are certain that there is demand for them. I see the only opportunities in flipping wines in a year and making a good profit is via En Primeur, but then that is difficult to get hold of. these allocations are usually reserved for corporate clients. my broker does use tranches of wines to calculate the cumulative value of my wines; it is very similar to the Premium Wine Fund that you have here, and of Liv-Ex who use the top 100 wines cumulatively to form their index. also, looking at PWF site, they do have Standard Chartered as the cash custodian and KPMG as auditors as well as legal rep’s in Cayman islands and in Sing. what is the problem with this? at least you have a fixed date when your investment is complete, and you can monitor it on bloomberg at your heart’s content… if people still are complaining when all of this is in place, then you really are in the wrong game! there are about 3 or 4 recent vintage of Margaux that scored an RP 99 recently. all of them have bottomed out and are recovering well. I ask you to consider this: the 1000 you are paying and thinking will it climb in value? there are some older vintages selling for much more. the chinese and HK wine lovers/collectors are happy to pay high prices – when you think that they were paying 80% duty until feb 08, they know they are buying the same wines for a lot less, they are getting a good deal! I do believe too that high prices act more as a magnet to these buyers rather than a deterrent.
maybe you are using your limits as to what wines should cost – forget them, and who is buying them. if they have top rating, are from bordeaux and are 1st growth or premier cru, people will pay high prices for them.
why has every man and his dog in the wine world moved to HK? because the demand is huge! insatiable! there’s a real thirst in China, and in 5 years there will be around 400 million rich, thirsty chinese folk… do the math.
another case for french wines: when you wish to exit, you obviously want to know demand is high and your stock is sought after. is it not easier for your broker to sell one case of wine – or sell 300 bottles before you can get your cash and profit back in your hand?
if you are thinking of how many bottles you get for your buck – you’re doing it wrong!
http://www.lioninvestor.com/wine-a-palatable-investment-by-saeed-shah/
hello, my agrument is with AWI. they are awful, they have tricked me into buying over 50k of wine, with no way out, not a attempt to help. I have had wine for over 3 years now, and slowly built up wines looking to sell out around this time. now that I stopped buying and wish now to sell, that is it. nobody can help me.
my son found this and other forum – the link is above.
AWI needs more bad publicity. my son suggests its an idea to set up on FACEBOOK a page for the wonderful AWI. these forums are not doing enough. he says we can use networking power of FACEBOOK to pull more levers.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/why-wont-Australian-Wine-Index-Singapore-try-to-sell-my-wines/111957718835318?created
JOIN THIS PAGE, TELL YOUR FRIENDS TO. WE HAVE TO JOIN TOGETHER TO MAKE SOME THING HAPPEN FOR US.
I was about to email AWI to complaint about the broker and my sales of wines through their website when I release that the actually put in the new colume “Wine Auctions Fetch Over US$160m In 2009 ”
After reading the article , i notice that the article mainly talking about french wine and not at ALL EVER MENTION AUSSIE WINE I really wonder what the company is doing and have the cheek to put in their website trying to mislead investors.
I heard dominic from UAG is in SG. His new gf owns a pub around robinson road.
Just read The Edge April 19 cover story on failed Wine Investments and was disgusted to note that the so called Wine Broker like AWI or Premium Liquid Assets were actually took a huge marked up of 30~50% from the market price on top of the 12% or so commission. They even have the thick skin to acknowledge that they deserve the mark up to cover their costs and profits for providing a good service to the dump dump naive investors like us all. Let’s unite and share the info widely with other potential victims whom might like us fall to their prey…
“Sci on April 7th, 2010 at 7:53 pm
AWI will have a session in the Asia Trader & Investor Convention at Suntec on 24 Apr 10. Real scumbags!!”
is this still on? Anyone going? Maybe we can meetup 1st, call the media and go to their booth/talk?
AWI is having their ACTIC session on 24 Apr 2010, 12.15pm – 12.45pm, in the PhillipCapital Room, in Suntec Singapore.
This session is conducted by their Sales Director, Alvin Lim.
I’ll be there to ask some tough questions.
Everyone is welcome to join in.
Read the Edge, bloody hell, awi and pla
Besides Crazy, can have an indication as to who purchased the ticket to the Asia Trader & Investor Convention coming Sat & Sun?
will go.
we should contact the New Paper to sell our side of story and hope that they will publish it and make awareness to other potiential investor.
With enough evidents to prove our points they may publish it. Afterall it is not much different from the scams they used to publish daily.
Hi,
Me and my partner were victims of UAG as well. The only good part was that we where stuck with physical bottles; however even for getting them out from 12degree we were asked to pay duty first. This was so frustrating as we did not want to spend more money.
Vino contacted me and I have to say I lost my trust in humanity as they even tried to pitch me and to spend more money – how unfair is that ???
After 6 months of research and frustration of losing all my money I found someone who bought my wines- without me paying any duty and anything else. I mean I sold my Penfolds for the price I bought them ( actually bit lower, but not much). It was great – this guys was amazing – I first had to send some pics of my bottles and then he transferred the money – and then the bottles were taken – so I was secured. What I have learned is that dont trust companies who call you – try to call them first – and very important the website has to have a VAT thing on it !!!! ( That’s what I got to know from my experience)And good companies pay you first then take the bottles. So I got out of it and that’s what i wanted to share to those who have actual bottles – try to sell it even if its a bit less , at least you get most of your money back ….. ( Try to find companies with a proper website and registration on it ….that’s the one I had and who helped me……http://bordeaux-traders.com/ )
Keep positive , I am sure it will work out ( it did for us after 5 years )
Catharina
Good idea…but only if the newspaper is willing to cover the story.
btw, any idea if the tix for the ATIC will be on sale on site?
Hi Catharina, you sold you australian Penfold to a company dealing with Bordeaux wines (http://bordeaux-traders.com)?? It does not make sense to me, can you please advise?
By the way , I will be at the fair this week, hopefully someone got the balls to give them a good hard time during the talk.
Hopefully those hero that was mentioned inside the article will be there too.
See Ya
Hi Stanleytan,
We got recommended to this company through a friend, who deals with wines. While talking to the company( bordeaux-traders) we got told that the portfolio we had ( penfold 707) is one of the best ones of australian wines( dont know if thats true?!as we got limited knowledge). However this person seemed interested and within a week I had the money in my account. Dont know what wine you got but all I can say is that it worked for me and I got excellent advice there. Just give it a shot and see what the person tells you . Hope that this helps and good luck at the fair ( my partner will be going as well )
catharina
Thanks for taking the opportunity to talk about “New Age Wine Investment in Singapore”, I benefit from learning about this topic. If possible, as you gain data, please update this blog with new information. Thanks, Hier
Dear Readers,
In light of the recent article titled “Investment Woes,” published by The Edge Singapore on 19th April 2010, it is with regret that we discover that there have been groundless allegations made towards Premium Liquid Assets (PLA) and its fine wine pricings by Mr. David Yap.
Since its inception, PLA has conscientiously worked to deliver a unique and transparent platform which exceeds the investment objectives and service expectations of our clients. Commensurate with a desire to be competitive and grow as a company, overpricing has never been part of our strategy and PLA consistently refers to a wide number of reputable wine merchants before determining its prices.
To validate this assertion, we urge readers to look at the data below on the purchasing details of Mr. David Yap’s experience with PLA in June 2008 as well as his trading details in November 2008. Your kind attention is called especially to the purchase prices in June 2008 (noting that the price for the Pavie 2006 comprises 24 bottles, double that of the price shown in the Liv-ex pricing table). In every instance, Mr. Yap’s purchase prices were firmly aligned with the average price reported by Liv-ex.
David Yap’s purchasing details from PLA in 10 June 2008 (12x75cl format in SGD):
1 x Lafite Rothschild 2006 = SG$13,800
1 x Margaux 2006 = SG$13,200
1x Haut Brion 2006 = SG$11,400
2 x Pavie 2006 = SG$10,752
Liv-ex’s low-high Price Data as of June 2008 (12x75cl format in SGD):
1 x Lafite Rothschild 2006 = $9,752(low) – $16,082(high)
1 x Margaux 2006 = $9,752(low) – $16,414(high)
1 x Haut Brion 2006 = $7,992(low) – $14,965(high)
1 x Pavie 2006 = $4,584(low) – $5,329(high)
David Yap’s trading details from PLA in 21 November 2008 (12x75cl format in SGD):
1 x Lafite Rothschild 2006 = SG$13,800
1 x Margaux 2006 = SG$13,200
1x Haut Brion 2006 = SG$11,400
2 x Pavie 2006 = SG$10,752
Liv-ex’s low-high Price Data as of November 2008 (12x75cl format in SGD):
1 x Lafite Rothschild 2006 = $7,893(low) – $12,994(high)
1 x Margaux 2006 = $7,833(low) – $13,177(high)
1 x Haut Brion 2006 = $6,721(low) – $14,135(high)
1 x Pavie 2006 = $3,079(low) – $4,873(high)
Liv-ex, based in London, is the world’s leading fine wine exchange and comprises an expansive database of thousands of regularly updated prices from hundreds of reputable wine merchants around the world, and consequently, is certainly a valid source to be used herein for comparison. Again, please note that prices offered and traded by PLA for Mr. Yap were consistently in the range of Liv-ex’s low and high market prices. In fact, his total purchase price was actually $656 under the total average Liv-ex price!
We need to highlight that, in some cases, it is true that purchase prices from PLA may slightly exceed the average prices reported by Liv-ex.. This must, however, be placed into context: Prices tracked by Liv-Ex are prices of wines from merchants around the world, with no note of the wine’s source or provenance (the travel history of the wine). Meanwhile, prices of PLA are strictly ex-château prices; the wine is sourced directly from the producing château and thus commands a price premium since the wine’s authenticity is unquestionably assured. This price premium is actually amplified as time goes by and the wine makes its way to the secondary market. Additionally, PLA pricing includes much more than the wine and the bottles, which is all Liv-ex pricing covers. We provide with our wines professional, climate-controlled storage in a bonded third-party facility, full replacement-value insurance, portfolio management and wine counseling services, exclusive access to fine wine lifestyle events, and more.
For many novices or first-time investors, wine investment can sometime be tricky and we strongly advise clients to do their own due diligence and research. Liv-ex (www.liv-ex.com) is certainly one of the most reliable and comprehensive sources that can be used. Please note however only Paid Subscribers of Liv-ex are able to access to its price database and only Qualified Members (e.g., reputable wine merchants and/or professional wine traders approved by Liv-ex committee) are able to trade using the platform.
In the unfortunate case of Mr. David Yap, who has made baseless defamatory remarks against PLA, we have gathered enough evidence against him and shall proceed accordingly in taking legal action.
Premium Liquid Assets (PLA) maintains a policy of welcoming our current or prospective clients with any enquiries to email us directly or simply arrange to meet us at our office to get the right information with regard to wine investment instead of relying on rumours, speculation, or libellous accusations.
Operations Department
65 6499 1855
PREMIUM LIQUID ASSETS PTE LTD (SINGAPORE)
BORDEAUX/SINGAPORE/HONG KONG/SHANGHAI/MALAYSIA
55 Tras Street Singapore 078994
I read the Edge article and the fellow said he is going to commence legal action against AWI even though he got a weak case because he hopes the lawsuit will create greater awareness about the potential problems in wine investing as well as spur other investors in action. He said he treat his loss in PLA as a tuition fee and he is not suing them. So is PLA doing AWI a favour by taking on David even though he is not going to sue them in the first place? I thought PLA & AWI are bitter rivals. AWI is the only one who is being sued but PLA also wants to take part in the bad publicity too….lol…If I were PLA, I rather keep quiet sit back and watch my competitor kanna whacked blue black rather than asked to be slapped in the face too….lol…
If i were AWI, just pay that fellow off since his claim is only $36k and make him sign confidentiality clause to shut his mouth….lol…I think that fellow must have a lot of people supporting him so he dare to sue AWI. Money talks and just throw money to his face and i bet you he will disappear for good.
Dear All
Any update on the wine talk during atic??
What is the main objective to invest in fine wines?? Isn’t it another investing instrument where the investor made a purchase at a reasonable price & subsequently profit from the release!! Who thinks the fine wine investment firm is giving sound advice when most of the investments made did not appreciated but instead went in the opposite direction according to the fine wine exchange after a few years.. Also, who feels the fine wine investment firm is performing their duty when they kept giving excuses in executing their clients’ instruction to sell.. Do remember one only gains when he gets his $$$ back from the sale & not from the appreciation shown in the paper valuation!!!
Btw, I went to ATIC hoping to meet up with Crazy, grant burge, Idiot Kasler, stanleytan@yahoo.com…
Hi Sci,
Went to ATIC too. The talk was really brief and the speaker did not take any questions at the end of the talk. What as disappointment.
yup, that is the intent of investment for everyone. However, i can accept that not all investment make money. But i cannot accept AWI sent investors valuation reports that show profit, but not able to help the investor liquidate.
For those who are looking into wine investments, pls be aware your liquid investment is not as liquid as you tot. Simply there is no market regulatory (not under MAS’s scope), no market makers, ie. no ready buyers..
Sci, u can reach me at grantburge4@yahoo.com.sg.
Just heard from one of the AWI insiders that their bosses also own PLA and PLA is registered under their proxy. I wonder we are dealing with the same crooks and hence should be expecting to hear the same excuses also.
I think PLA & AWI are not the same Management although most of the people in PLA originated from AWI. Tmb is right that it makes no sense for PLA to sue David because it only generates more bad publicity for them and will scare off even more potential customers. All PLA needs to do is to say they are suing but they don’t have to sue and then no one will ever find out if they got sue or not because David is not suing them anyway because he is too busy suing AWI unless PLA & AWI are the same Management like what Steven said.
One thing I would like to bring up – is it prudent / ethical for PLA to release David Yap’s transaction details publicly during this spat? Shouldn’t customer’s records be private?
I think disclosing client’s investment records on a public forum may have breach confidentiality agreement, unless of course the client has given permission for his investment details to be shown to the sundry.
Wine investment is not regulated, unlike banking, which has express provision for client confidentiality. If the sales contract is also silent, then there is not much the “victim” can do. Of course it is not ethical for PLA to do so.
I think PLA is trying to tell everyone that they traded off David Yap’s wines and not that they refunded him his money by revealing his wine purchases. They are implying that David Yap is a Liar and if that is the case, then there is sufficient grounds for him to sue PLA for defamation. I believe he was misled by his Broker into buying the wines so he should also sue his broker for lying to him about the wines. I don’t believe anyone will be willing to pay 30% mark up prices for wines or any other stuff if they are told the real facts upfront. But it looks like David is not taking any action against PLA because he is waiting for them to make the first move. If PLA don’t sue him, he will probably not counter sue them because he never said he suing them in the Edge report. Everyone is waiting and wanting to see him fight AWI.
Henry, how can I sue my broker for misleading me? No SMS, telephone or conversation recordings. Just a sales contract and a lot of empty promises. What can the lawyer do for me? The management has dissociated itself from the broker?
Instead of passively “waiting and wanting” to see how David fights Goliaths AWI and PLA, as Henry wrote earlier, why not you guys, all the unhappy AWI and PLA investors rally behind him and form a collective group. One guy isn’t going to put off those firms but a collective group could, like during the Asian crisis/ M’sia capital control saga, all the suffering Clob investors came together and did some constructive stuff.
Advocate, you can only sue your broker and not the wine investment company because they already protected themselves by contract and disclaimer clause. I know it is not fair that the wine investment companies can get away with it but that is the sad truth. They knowingly allow their brokers to make false promises to you because they know they cannot be bound by the actions of their brokers so if you think your broker got the money and is worth suing, then you should go after your broker.
Anyway, lets see if David wants to sue PLA for calling him a Liar. You see he put so much pressure on his broker until he managed to get back the purchase price of his wines minus the sale charge. So you may want to copy his method and see if it works for you too.
jack, I think all these unhappy people dont want to confront the wine investment companies directly because they still want to hope in vain that they can exit out of their physical wines and non physical wines with minimum losses.
Jack, how old are you? CLOB ended with Sg investors having red bloody noses and the plasters on their noses were removed a few years later … or rather they were able to trade their share only after a few years later at the timing of the M’sia govt.
We should gather as many frustrated AWI’s investors (like me) as possible, to come together to think of a way out.. If successful, good for us. Otherwise, we still have our wines in the cellars. No matter what, at least we create the awareness for others who may fall into AWI’s trap & get this name stained or out from Singapore in the process.. Anyone keen to join in?
Hi All
We should gather all forces to get them to sell our wine.
Understanding this stuff can be pretty painstaking, thanks for typing this post to fix up some confusion.
Any body bought two hands barney’s block shiraz 2008 from AWI? It costs me s$148 dollar per bottles
Mac Lee:
Those investment tracking wiht fund registered in cayman island is dangerous.Many fund companies closed down over the last few years, you can google for the news.
Also anyone got any idea what is going on in AWI, no one seems to bother to reply so far?
I am one of AWI investor since 2005 and I have not sell a single bottle of wine. I am still waiting.
Looks like a lot of xbox fans here, I am a fan too and enjoy to play games… my gf says I play way too much, but man it’s so pleasant. I’ve been playing modern warfare and halo for months and can’t stop! What would you guys recommend? Anyhow, appears like a nice website, is this wordpress? I’ve created a few pages myself and it’s not easy. Thanks for taking time to writing this up.
Hi sci and Peter, I am keen to join in. we should gather more frustrated investors and take action against the company
Hi guys,
I am keen to join in too. Maybe we should arrange to make a trip to their office together or their booth during the next investment fair that they are participating.
You can reach me at sigmar.kwok@gmail.com
Thanks.
I hear that the brokers at AWI that almost all of their brokers ahve left! they have filled themselves with innocent people money, then moved to hong kong and other companies now in singapore.
also, I went to DP Bureau to check out AWI. their capital structure is worth S$100. that is it! so if you can sue company, that is maximum amount you can get, right?
this is scary scary. the DP bureau document shows Kasler as a secretary and Bassett as the director owning 100% of the company – it also has his address. june 5 & 6 AWI at SUNTEC FOR INVESTMENT FAIR. they are doing talk also.
To angry mister:
Could you post the DP Bureau data? I remembered checking the paid-up capital – it is definitely more than $100.
when did you check? I was there less than one month ago. I have hard copy that says S$100 ok. so it is definitley NOT more, ok.
so go and check again, then come back. I said I went there – you think I make this story for fun? I have nothing better to do? my money is in that f*king wine ok.
I know also that 7 brokers have left since end march and other office staff – I suggest you go to the office to get some money. it looks like they are going. bassett address 479b river valley road he drives black 645 BMW
This sale director Alvin Lim is still there
just post the hard copy on line…end of story.
hi anyone here got any idea what is going on with wine investment in singapore……i invested with awi my broker was julian goh and when he left to pla i invested with him again . and now i heard he left and started a new company in teck lim road called BORDEAUX LIQUID GOLD…………my god please help me i have invested all my money , can someone advised me what to do?
Dear investor this is Alvin Lim
i do understand about the frustration i have been with the company since day 1 ..any question ?
Dear All
A group of 10 brokers has left PLA, so what next for PLA, are they having issue as what DAVID say previously??
Just would like to share my story.
I have been a investor with AWI since 2007. Countless change of brokers until recently Harry call and ask me to add another lot to my existing collection (very persistent) and in return promised to sell my current collection for 40% profit.
But this MF insist me getting his recommedation before trading my existing lot!
He has left since. HENG AH.
Another so call senior broker has taken over my portfolio.
Interesting conversation I had with her (in Summary)
- her/ oh you existing collection has appreicapted xx amount. Very good
- Me/ So I want to sell since due soon.
- her/ normally now not a good period to sell, end of year better……………………………
- me/ NO I still want to sell
- her/ (tone change) Ok lor then wait until due date then we talk.
Hi, kindly post me updated on AWI issues by keeping me in mail sheawnlee@gmail.com, my wines are still stuck with AWI and my storage contract is coming to expire soon, I will need to maintain my storage account if I cannot let go of my Australian wines.
Anyone knows which wine merchants can buy my stocks? I do not wish to be approach again by ex AWI salesman who promise me to sell off my wines but need to buy from another new investment company or need me to give them a processing fees first before they execute the orders.
All these are lame rubbish coming out from AWI sales people. Heard that a team of Australian Wine Index sales people had set up another wine investment company recently trying to cheat ex AWI clients of their hard earn money, we have to put a stop to it!
Yes, all AWI brokers left and now in PLA.Are we seeing similar case of UAG?
Has anyone launched complained to CASE??
Or is there any government bureau monitoring this bloody suckers!
I think this is another wine investment company, maybe by same people from AWI, PLA…..
Bordeaux Liquid Gold
Anyone has any idea.
Thanks
Nice Post! I was searching for free classified advertising and classified related articles when I came across your website post on Yahoo. This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for the share. I’ve bookmarked this post for future reference
Nice comments – Best Wishes
Hi Mate, you said a group of 10 brokers left PLA, do you know where they go?
the brokers are Nadia loh irene ong alcus tan david lim anna lim …………..julian poh all this brokers stole data from AWI than when to PLA misreprsent and when to another company …i will never want to deal with these people who steals tins
just for all investors info we are not link to all these company
4 years ago when our data was stolen by uag and we send out warning letters to all our clients some heed our advise some didnt …i know there are many angry investors but i believe there is always a solution to all problems
mr my money on may i have your name
Mr Alvin Lim, I am sure you must be the ‘sales director’ of AWI? Before making any comments, may i know where is my money and my brother’s money? When you left AWI and went back to work, you sold us some wines saying that you could trade into US market at 80% in 4 months? You PROMISED and GURANTEED that we can sell our wines 8 months ago but keep dragging and what is going on now??? We have called the office and you are always not in and not returning any calls. A group of AWI clients have already teamed up to bringing this matter to the press and all the forums are talking about you and AWI for giving empty promises and not selling wines, instead of appearing here, why don’t you answer the damn call?! We will be suing you in court!
Assets Wine Management has folded too!
hi angry investor, you said: (the brokers are Nadia loh irene ong alcus tan david lim anna lim …………..julian poh all this brokers stole data from AWI than when to PLA misreprsent and when to another company …i will never want to deal with these people who steals tins)
Where are these brokers when to? Which company?
All the brokers are Julian’s puppets and are sucking his small cock!!
The brokers who keep on leaving wine investment companies all have mental health problems and are very insecure, if they didn’t leave they would all most likely be fired anyway for negative attitude, poor performance and not servicing clients. I’ve left the wine business to start a family but I would not like to work with these type of people again, they cannot be trusted and certainly will not make any money for their clients. These brokers keep on following promises of higher commissions, people like this helped cause the financial crisis, stay clear from them.
All who want to invest, be it in wine, stocks, unit trusts, etc, please do your homework first. Invest according to your risk appetite, not what the salesperson sweet talk you about. Beware of the risk involved, otherwise stick to the same old boring fixed deposit.
Thank you for this informative post! I love the theme of your blog, too
- Bill
dear caleb i have yet recieved any calls from you askung for me
seriously there is no message left for me to call you Mr Caleb
i think it is at teck lim road call bordeaux liquid gold hahahaha
Mr Alvin Lim what is your contact number and when will be best time to call you?
OH My god i just received a call from the new company … Anna lim selling me old world wines, i asked her what is the difference between their wines and PLA she just went silence after that she ask me to hold on and Julian ex pla people said we are diffrent i ask him what is the diff it’s still old world…. and he just bad mouth pla …i asked him you sold me in awi than bad mouth australian wine ok i trust you than when to pla now because you have a new company …….stop al the bs i told him or slap yourself before i invest with the liquid shit because his english is worst than my 3 year old son….
Hi you can reach me at 63278975
Hi, anyone heard about the story of “The wolf is here again”? These group of so called brokers used to work in A company. When they stole the database from A company and join the B company. They start bad mouth A company. Now they went to C company and bad mouth B company. How can we even believe in these fuckers again?
To all investors,
May I proposed those with collection already due for sale but no action from AWI to meet at their office to further discussed?
Say next Friday after lunch.
You guys are crazy
99.9% non-investor
Hello “Anyone”, before next Friday’s meeting.. ask all the investors give a call to their initial brokers like Nadia loh irene ong alcus tan david lim anna lim & julian poh. They sold the wines simply for higher commission.
yes call them
this so called broker steals and just like car accident hit and run from one company to another
Desperately seeking brokers from the companies mentioned above?
Ask Julian Poh – Exec Director of Borbeaux Liquid Gold (newly formed)
10 Teck Lim Road, Singapore 088386
Tel: 62253833
Fax: 62253133
Mobile: 97867400
Nadia and co probably went to a company called Bordeaux Liquid Gold. Beware pple.
dear all investors
today just visited the premium liquid asset office in KL,Malaysia.
Their premise still very new here.So far anyone have good or bad experience with them?
Alex from KL
I not too long ago purchased a refurbished Dolphin Diagnostic pool cleaner. I was a bit more than involved after reading a few of the detrimental reviews. Nonetheless, I’m fully satisfied.
sweet website. I have really enjoyed it!
Hi Alex from KL,
There are many other investments… but after reading this forum and you still want to invest in wine, then you should be mentally be prepared to drink them…
There is no problem when you buy them…. the problem will come when you want sell them…
Good luck!
thks grant
next week im going to the PLA office to sign contract as agent.
Hopefully this investment works and is not a scam.
Cheers
hi all investors,
Anyone can advise how to sell off my wine collections without going through AWI?
I started wine investing last year with AWI and was told that it is best to keep the wine for at least 3 yrs to max the profit. But after reading this forum, i begin to worry.
thks.
Hi Alex,
fyi, another wine investment company in singapore closed shop… police is investigating.
http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC100630-0000100/Police-reports-filed-against-wine-investment-firm
I think there are many jobs out there…pls find one that you can sleep peacefully at night.
good luck
Hi Swat,
I think it is bad news for you… hope u did not put in much…
take care.
My advise is put all your money inside the bank. Cash is king.
Stay clear from them especially those new companies with no track record. good luck.
A dollar roll is similar to a reverse repurchase agreement. The investor sells a mortgage-backed security for settlement on one date and buys it back for settlement at a later date. The investor gives up the principal and interest payments during the roll period but can invest the proceeds and usually is able to buy back the mortgage for a lower price than the sale price. The difference in the prices is called the drop. The value of the drop plus interest earned on the proceeds of the sale less the forgone interest and principal payments on the mortgage is considered the roll specialness or financing advantage. However, with repurchase agreements, the exact same security is returned to the investor, while with dollar rolls, the investor buys a substantially similar security. This difference produces complex results under certain areas of the United States Internal Revenue Code.
Dear God,
Pls summarise what you want to say…or you can just cut and paste the link…
Thank God.
Does anyone have any recommendation to buy good italian wines? I intend to throw a birthdy for my husband and will be inviting 30 guest to our place. I would like to offer them somethiing interesting instead of French or Australian wines.
I would hope wine lovers here can give me a few good suggestions as such lables, shops I can buy and taste them.
Is there any good place for wine shopping in town? I am looking at a price range of $100 – $200 per bottle. Thank you!
thanks for the advice..but im wondering how come all the scam is from singapore?
hi alex.
: ) whatever. if you think so, it your choice… do not want to go into this kind of childish disagreement. bye… and good luck.
Can anyone advise on how to sell the Australian wine I previously bought via UAG before it went into liquidation? They are still at the warehouse in Singapore…
Dear All
Is AWI sales director alvin lim lye soon?
I just hate this year world cup! all my favourite teams are out. No more good looking guys to drool at.
I hate the spainards, the germans, the uraguians and the dutch. Time to cancel the mio TV and Starhub
Alwin Lim, what is your solution to all the angry investor?
How can you help to sell their wine with AWI?
A case of The Pot Calling the Kettle Black…
Asset Wine Management which was closed and being investigated by CAD last week is now calling Bordeaux Liquid Gold the next scam
http://www.assetswinemgt.com
I suspect a case of old company boss ran away, the ex sales people set up new wine investment company call Bordeaux Liquid Gold and do the same thing by calling all the ex clients and prospects, sell en primeurs and ready to be a millionaire in 1 year time, I expect the commission there must be 30% to 70% at least for a successful sales.
I would like this job!!!
Watson, this is scary !
Anyone know how to claim back the money from Assets Wine Management?
James, kiss your money and say good bye. Looks like another new wine investment is coming up.
Dear People,
The folks who sold you the wine from Premium Liquid Assets AND Australian Wine Index are operating Bordeaux Liquid Gold and the people you are looking for are working from:
10 Teck Lim Road, Singapore.
If you really want answers pertaining to your investment, the hard earned money you have put into your portfolio… this is where they are at now… Not Australian Wine Index, not Premium Liquid Assets… they are now Bordeaux Liquid Gold. Its pointless barking up the wrong tree because they are no longer there anyway. My portfolio manager has gone MIA on me too but I am demanding answers from the guys who sold me the cooking vinegar they claim to be investment worthy wine.
Just went to AWI’s website… What a hoot!! Was AWI not “a new company without track records” once upon a time? Now with “years” of selling over-priced table wines, they sure have some nerve giving cautionary notes to investors about other companies. Thats like saying “don’t go there to get cheated, come buy from us first.”
With the “Investor To-Do” checklist put up at their website, one must assume they alreay got all the grounds covered to “ensure” people “invest” in their product simply because they already set up the beartrap. Speaking from direct experience here.
Asset Wine Management site is taken down so is the advice for potential idiots to be wary of other new wine investment company sprouting out. By the way how can we be sure wine company like Vinum, Crystal wines, Cornerstone are selling us En Primeurs which will only be bottled in 2 years time? Receiving newsletters from them saying its a good investment as well.
Better go back to betting World Cup
Bank also can close down la. What is Vinum, Crystal & ect.
If you want me to choose, of course i will put my money into the companies with track record.
Any investor from AWM here. Are you guys planning to group together and do something? At least take back the wine we ‘had’ from the warehouse no?
Safe your time to get back the money. Take it as a lesson. It takes two hands to clap. The only things to kill you is greed. Next time buy from a more reputable merchant instead of the merchant you never heard before or brand new shop. good luck.
bank with 100 years closed, so what is reputable company, no big deal. best is not invest
hi yong
are you replying to me, coz i m not greedy and i put my $$$ into AWM due to one of the broker there is my friend asking me to help. Furthermore i m not bother about the $$$ since i know it is impossible to claim it back. I m refering the wine we own in the warehouse. I can still see the it in the web based inventory of CWT, if the wine is physically not there than there will be CBT case here…………u know what i mean?
My advise is if want to invest, invest with a reputbale company. If not, don’t invest. The most common mistake made by the human is greed. Because of few cent or hundred dollars of price different, they rather take thier own risk invest with the NO NAME company…and again, once the company closed down then start to complain and making noise. They deserve to DIE!!!
It takes two hands to clap. Don’t complain.
hi cleef, not replying to you lah.
Hi Thomas, true enought bank with 100 years also can close down but the chances is low compare to ther companies with totally ZERO track record. If want to invest, invest with the company with track record if not DON”T invest.
Oh Shit, i need some quick advise from you bro and sis here. I received a call this morning from a friend telling me that the CEO of the company we invest wine with (PLA) resigned, and a group of brokers left too, is this true? Is this going to be another UAG and AWM ? Please, can someone verify?
Those who have vested interest with PLA can verify with their management on who had resign and left, but I had heard some sales people from PLA had left to set up their own company selling wines below market value without having proof that they had been doing long term business in Bordeaux or procurements. That could be the net AWM and UAG. I did not see my computer crash when Bill Gates resign and retire from Microsoft.
Dear Nathan
You mean CEO PLA Eldric Ko resigned? Are you sure, can someone confirm this.
Again another case? sign , what is wrong with all this wine companies in singapore? My wines are still not sorted with AWI, now AWM, who is next ? Thinking of it makes me worried.
This forum is specially created for the brokers to bad mouth each other. It’s fun.
You guys are hilarious! ROTFLMAO!
Hi cleef, i also one of he investor, now i have report police and wait for CWT to give us the answer as to whether we can retreive the wine in the stoage, we can inform each other if anyone have further information. My email electay@yahoo.com.sg
i concluded that wine investment is just a scam. hope nobody will lose anymore $$$ to this people.
and i m not a sore loser, i can afford to buy this lesson. but not all are so lucky
The company brokerages network will provide you with access to a big pool of people who have the details about businesses for sale and buyers or investors looking for a company venture. By making great use in the information you’ve, you might be cutting a provide and make a handsome profit out from the transactions.
I felt that the whole world is a scam, my wife just left me, my insurance agent did not help me pay for my yearly premium I passed to him as he is in debt, one of my managing partner is eating into our company profits, my private banker just sold me funds that make me lose a million, my bank is not approving me of my business funding. My lawyer just charged me an exhorbit price for issuing a few simple documents.
My property agent just sold my current property at lower valuation so that he can mark up and resell it to another buyer. My doctor just prescribe me a lower dosage medicine so that I need to visit him at least more than 3 times to cure a common cold, my fortune teller just mention that I need to spend some money to do a ceremony for my ancestor in order to be blessed.
My government just increase my taxes as my income exceeds their capped requirements.
Damn….where the hell am I?
James, Any luck in getting your way to claims from Asset wine management. I have report to police and the CAD is investigating.
The world is full of shit. Everyone is scammer. When the gov want to take money from you, they will think of the sales pitch. Even though we are not convince. When the sales person “referring to all the sales industries” want to take money from you, they will also think of the sales pitch. Most of the investor buy because of either not firm enough of greed.
P/S: Investing in regulated product doesn’t mean you are safe.
Hey wine lovers, I just saw a new company http://www.assetton.com in the sunday times today, advertising for 2009 En primeurs. Is this company good? I am thinking of joining them to get drunk everyday, they have land, wine, art investment, better than the rest I have seen.
sundayTimes
There are tons of people losing sleep over failed wine and land investments and you wanna get drunk everyday. What are the REST you seen? AWI? UAG? Profitable Group? etc. My goodness. You can go ahead and invest ~$2000/bottle of 2009 En primeurs. I’m sure 2009 prices will hit the roof, looking at how they are manipulated, and you’ll be rich. Anyway, haven’t come across a wine investment company which will let you drink till you get drunk everyday. I think we should all go to assetton for free vino everyday.
Already mentioned whole world is a scam including regulated products and still want to invest.
“Over the period of July 2009 to March 2010, I, David Yap (Nric No. S7020528/I), submitted numerous comments over the internet on this online forum. In so doing, I caused to be published and/or circulated certain statements that were highly defamatory of Premium Liquid Assets Pte Ltd.
Among other things, I had alleged (either expressly or by innuendo) that Premium Liquid Assets Pte Ltd were running a Ponzi scheme, that they were charging grossly inflated prices for their wines, that they and/or their representatives were liars and/or that I had been cheated by them.
I hereby unreservedly confirm that the above-mentioned statements/allegations made by me were entirely false and baseless. I acknowledge that the abovementioned statements/allegations have defamed Premium Liquid Assets and disparaged Premium Liquid Assets in their trade and/or business.
I deeply regret the distress and embarrassment caused to Premium Liquid Assets Pte Ltd by my abovementioned statements/allegations and I hereby retract them all (and any innuendoes thereto) in their entirety.
To view a scanned copy of my signed apology to Premium Liquid Assets Pte Ltd, please navigate to the following web page: http://www.premiumliquidassets.com/pla/defamation_davidyap.pdf.
I see PLA has settled the matter with David at last but the signature on the Apology Letter is not his signature. I remember meeting up with him shortly after his interview with The Edge was published. He was pretty upset with the editor coz he didn’t realized they were doing a full page full blown interview and published a lot of stuff which he didnt want to be made public as he was right to assume that PLA will take revenge on him. David told me that when he complained to the Editor, the editor brushed him off and rubbished his complaint by telling him that he was “over reacting”! Turns out he was spot on his prediction.
He said his lawyers advised him PLA could not sue him for his comments in the Edge as he was protected by the defence of qualified privilege and fair comment but he was not protected for his online comments made in here. Heard PLA tried to publish their rebuttal letter in the Edge but was ignored despite threats from their lawyers coz they knew they were protected but they couldn’t care less what happens to David. Seems if The Edge had published the rebuttal letter, PLA would not bother to pursue the matter with David but since they cannot get to the Edge and him for the interview, they can only resort to getting him in here.
Told him last yr the 3 Ex PLA brokers who approached him cannot be trusted to help him by releasing confidential internal documents proving PLA had committed fraud and overselling overpriced wines as they had their own self-serving interests in holding on to those information and documents coz all these secrets can help them when they join competitor.
You guys noticed the apology only made reference to his comments in here and not in the Edge. I message him just now and he said he didn’t pay any monetary compensation to PLA other than a token sum for their lawyer fee to settle the matter. Looks like PLA just wants to settle the matter quickly and quietly.
So we can go ahead to defame all these wine investment companies but must do it through the official media and publications in order to be protected by legal defences.
What has the world become!
You mean after those wine broken sucker taken your $$ and you as a good soul and unhappy chap would just want to cautious others and release your dismay here, in the end you have to apologize for your action???? DAVID
cannot open letter ?
Kind of feel sorry for David Yap, keep defending himself with so many nicks and time writing in this forum…I would suggest you focus your business or work to make more money. Time spend with family members and enjoying your life would be more quality.
dear invstor i just found out that those broker who left pla to bordeuax liquid gold and the owner is anna lim i receive a call and they said the 09 en premimer is cheaper but i check and found out the company is under anna lim? please adviise
Over the period of July 2009 to March 2010, I, DAVID YAP (NRIC No. S7020528/I), submitted numerous comments over the internet on this online forum. In so doing, I caused to be published and/or circulated certain statements that were highly defamatory of PREMIUM LIQUID ASSETS PTE LTD.
Among other things, I had alleged (either expressly or by innuendo) that PREMIUM LIQUID ASSETS PTE LTD were running a Ponzi scheme, that they were charging grossly inflated prices for their wines, that they and/or their representatives were liars and/or that I had been cheated by them.
I hereby unreservedly confirm that the above-mentioned statements/allegations made by me were entirely false and baseless. I acknowledge that my abovementioned statements/allegations have defamed PREMIUM LIQUID ASSETS PTE LTD and disparaged PREMIUM LIQUID ASSETS PTE LTD in their trade and/or business.
I deeply regret the distress and embarrassment caused to PREMIUM LIQUID ASSETS PTE LTD by my abovementioned statements/allegations and I hereby retract them all (and any innuendoes thereto) in their entirety.
To view a scanned copy of my signed apology to PREMIUM LIQUID ASSETS PTE LTD, please navigate to the following web page: http://www.premiumliquidassets.com/pla/Defamation_DavidYap.pdf.
Sincerely,
DAVID YAP
WHAT & EW
Do not be so presumptious to assume that I saw his apology letter via the link in here and that I am David. He emailed me a soft copy of the apology letter days earlier and I asked him whose signature was on that letter and he replied that was not his signature. I presume his lawyer must have signed the apology letter on his behalf and if that is the case, then PLA shld not accept the apology letter and shld go ahead to sue him in court. I want to see PLA and David fight this matter out in court for all our benefit and I am disappointed that David took the easy way out since PLA was too lenient and willing to settle. Everyone was expecting a good show and fight so if PLA and David chose to settle the matter amicably, it is not to anyones’ benefit. I dont think David even comes into this forum anymore but it seems PLA wine brokers like WHAT & EW still hang around here to defend PLA so I wonder who is in fact spending too much time in here….lol…
WHAT on July 31st, 2010 at 12:27 am
Darren amazing, when everyone in here cannot open the pdf file you can view it? and see that the signature is not David Yap’s!!
EW on July 31st, 2010 at 12:30 pm
Kind of feel sorry for David Yap, keep defending himself with so many nicks and time writing in this forum…I would suggest you focus your business or work to make more money. Time spend with family members and enjoying your life would be more quality.
Who keeps posting his apology letter in here?
Darren,
I also received a copy of David letter by email in June before it was published here and I presume he must have sent it to everyone in his email contacts group for our reference but even though I also think that someone else signed that letter, who are you to stir shit up by suggesting that both parties must continue to fight the matter. It is a win win situation for both parties as they settled the matter with minimum costs but I can see you are a troublemaker as you cut and paste in here parts of David’s standard email reply to everyone in the mailing list which I also received and make it seemed as though he was only sharing his case details with you.
Are your wines stuck from the UAG issue and are not able to get what is rightfully yours out from the creditors?
Email: iknowhowtogetyourwinesback@gmail.com
I’ll be able to advise because I was in the same situation.
AWI clients will NEVER have their wine sold at AWI…NEVER!!!! Noone will EVER help u sell ur wine…its not part of the business model…your money is gone!!!!
I am not a broker – I have cutomers for red wine. Must be Australian.
Anyone wanting to sell good quality red wines from Australia should let me know. I am interested in bulk quantities
Cheers
Val
Hi val, how to contact you?
Investors were cold-called and persuaded to invest in Bordeaux en primeur mainly 2005 First Growths.
The three companies involved are Bordeaux Wine Trading Company, International Wine Commodities Ltd and Templar Vintners Ltd.
Although the victims paid a total of £2.5m, it is alleged that the fraudulent companies only ever had one £10,350 case of wine in stock. No other orders were placed with suppliers.
Instead the defendants spent the money on luxury goods, including cars and designer watches.
The court heard today of a spending spree by 37-year old Paul Craven, who ran the Bordeaux Wine Trading Company.
In October 2006 he bought BMW convertible for £20,600. In November he spent over £16,000 on various items in Selfridges including Ozwald Boateng clothes and Cartier watches. In January 2007 Craven bought an electric wine cooler (£1225) as well as a Jacuzzi bath and bathroom TV.
In October 2007 Craven bought a black RR sport Land Rover for £55,700.
The next month he bought a black BMW sports convertible for his girlfriend, paying £32,162 on the spot by debit card.
There are a number of charges. Niklas Cashman, Paul Craven, Oseghale Hayble and Benedict Moruthoane are charged with conspiracy to defraud.
Benedict Moruthoane and Andrew Griffiths are charged with fraud and Anita Lanskill with transferring criminal property. Although the case is linked, it is believed that none of the defendants was involved in all three companies.
The trial continues and is expected to last four to five weeks.
WINE INVESTMENTS, is it still the “best kept” secret, or simply an accident waiting to happen?
There are without doubt so many companies around the World, selling wine as an investment, all too often quoting superb performance ratios of mainly big Bordeaux Chateau over the past 5-40 years. It has to be said that the wines quoted have performed extremely well and indeed wine investments have generally easily outperformed most other traditional types of investment, but the market is narrow, mostly Red Bordeaux wines, top marc Champagne, Rhone and Italian and in particular a few top Tuscan wines.
The city has recently been suffering very badly from poor performance ratios in all areas, including PEPs, ISAs, Pensions, Stocks, Shares et al, and now property is falling also certainly confidence in these more traditional areas seems to be at an all time low.
Wine as an alternative investment.
Fine Wines can be a safe haven for investors in difficult times, anticipated growth in wine futures look good, even today with a worldwide recession, over the past 30 years most companies suggest 15-20% growth, tax free! With annualised growth of 1000-2500% and more over the period of 15-25 years equating to 14-18% compound interest. But these figures are mostly based on the top 10 Bordeaux Chateau and a few top Champagnes on opening prices of the great vintages only. Buyer beware holds true of buying investment wines as with any other investment.
True, there are no capital gains when a wine has a life expectancy of less than 50 years, as it attains a Chattel Status, taking it outside of the capital gains ruling when re-sold. There is great kudos in owning great wines or a decent cellar and if your finances make a dramatic upturn over the next decade, then you can enjoy the wines, safe in the knowledge that they were purchased for a much lower figure than then current market values.
What makes Fine Wine increase in value?
Investing in fine wines has been around for centuries, often hoarded by collectors and connoisseurs alike. Those with good knowledge, as I used to do, would purchase twice as much of a particular wine than they required for themselves, selling off highly profitable mature stocks down the line to replenish their cellars with newer vintages, more often with the side benefit of having all of their own drinking wines paid for out of these profits following 5-10 years of investing. Over the past couple of decades, fine wine has garnered a much wider audience, becoming part of a lifestyle along the lines of fine art, for any of the rich and famous, and maintaining a cellar of fine wines has increasingly been regarded as a necessary accoutrement of success. The massive increase in home underground cellars being installed throughout the Country is testament to the increased demand of fine wines.
The world has recently found a new phenomenon, wine speculation; which is fuelled by so much consumer information from the plethora of wine journalists, led by Robert Parker and his team. This American gentleman has had a seriously profound effect in the marketplace with the simplified 100 point system he devised back in 1980. Previously all wine was sold on the Chateaux’s reputation and vintage alone, not on the intrinsic value of the wine, this simplified system has had dramatic effect on firstly the American markets and is now commonplace throughout the world. Prices are set according to his ratings, with the main Bordeaux Chateaux benefiting financially. Demand for these highly rated wines has risen dramatically and will continue to do so over the long term now with the Asian markets demanding all of the top wines. It seems the Far East has recently become known as the WILD WEST of fine wine, and a strong possibility exists that the fine wine market which has been slowly moving from London to the US over the past decade will suddenly head south to Hong Kong now that they have abolished the 40% import duties. Russia has been strong recently and Brazil is getting in on the action as is India with so many mega rich individuals in these countries being created. So demand for the top wines will continue to increase over the long term.
Due to the 1855 classification of Bordeaux wineries, supply is limited by the geographic area of the chateaux. They have been at full capacity for more than a century already; in fact over the past couple of decades production is actually reducing as each individual Chateau strives to increase and improve quality by reducing yields, seeking the higher Parker scores and the accompanying high status, following demand and of course higher selling prices.
Ultimately prices will continue to escalate over the long term, however during the past six or seven years the main Bordeaux Chateaux have looked to ascertain what the market will bear based on the Parker scores and set their prices accordingly. Over the past few years we have seen prices of en-primeur Bordeaux wines being offered out at levels higher than older 100 point rated wines currently selling for in bottle. The en-primeur wine still isn’t finished, and so much can go wrong, not to mention the fact that in the main, Parker Scores generally decrease rather than increase and subsequent re-sale values follow accordingly.
Where then and how do I invest in wine?
As with any investment, the quality of the advice you are given is paramount. What, where and when to buy, these together with careful and cost effective management of your portfolio will make the difference between a reasonable or very satisfying return on your money.
Work with people who have expertise in the field, there are some traditional UK wine merchants with a wealth of experience, however most of these buy from the same wineries every year, regardless of vintage variation, so be aware, that they all have wines to sell every year in order to maintain their allocations. It is also worth noting, the better wines with higher ratings do not need to be sold, buyers and brokers clamber for their allocations early on, so you need to be quite aware of the market movements. There are a plethora of Brokers, some extremely successful, these are specialist people or companies who will buy as much of a top rated wine from other merchants and mark them up, sometimes by a huge margins. For the most part, when dealing with brokers, you have already missed the boat, or at least the first big uplift.
Another possibility for many would be one of the fairly new Wine Funds which have sprung up over the past five years or so, these have good bond facilities and auditors, but there are some searching questions which need to be asked about these funds, one is, there are management charges to the funds and these range from 2.5% to 20% per annum! Next is where are the wines held, often they are in multiple countries and it is difficult to verify these holdings. Finally whilst wine remains a wasting asset, and therefore capital gains free, the fund is a financial vehicle and as such subject to normal taxes. Quite how these vehicles will perform over the long term is an unknown, but given the above, it is not a vehicle I would tend to invest my money into.
Alternatively find somebody in whom you can trust, a merchant who has your interest at heart as well as their own future. Reliable and trustworthy people are out there working to retain your ongoing business for the future, and these are the people you should seek out. Purchase from these and hold the wines in your own name, in your own bond account, if selling these companies fail; you may well lose your investment in full.
What should I buy? How much should I invest? How long will it take?
We recommend a minimum investment of £5000 per annum is a realistic sum to achieve a balanced portfolio; this would be over and above your normal drinking wines. Wine investment is not generally a short-term venture, five to ten years is the average period that we normally recommend you hold onto your investment wines. What to buy for investment is fairly straightforward, the best wines from the best vintages and the best producers at the lowest prices, preferably first offer prices.
A balanced portfolio covers a cross section of different wine regions and countries, spreading the potential risk and rewards. As mentioned earlier, Bordeaux has been the main driver for investment wines historically, and some older top flight wines still look reasonable when compared to more recent vintages and in particular 2005 Bordeaux price levels, but providence is paramount. In particular first growth wines from 1982 and 1996 are still priced below newer vintages, particularly the 2000 and 2005 vintages. Burgundy, has not proved to be a great investment overall, save for a tiny handful of the very best, e.g. DRC and Lalou Bize Leroy, but opening prices of these wines are often astronomical due to high demand. Rhone is generally sound, again when finding the best of the best. We see Rhone wines as offering good long term uplift potential.
Where else, to look? Champagne is a good safe bet when buying the from the best producers, Cristal is the top name, but I personally cannot understand why, perhaps it’s the clear bottle that sets it apart, Krug is in our opinion a far better range, and Dom Perignon virtually always does well, the 1996 released in 2005 @ £650 a case was selling for £1,800 by 2008, and the 1996 Drappier Carte d’Or is potentially a blinding bet for the future, we released this in late 2006 at £330, price now £450, but older vintages also with 96 points are selling for £3,000 a case! Italian prices are sometimes very high to begin and see smaller uplifts in selling prices, with a few exciting exceptions, but Spain is beginning to flourish with a host of producers totally committed to quality making great wines for reasonable prices. Another Country, Australia is leading the field with a host of super premium wines at very realistic prices. Robert Parker has now come to fully appreciate the range of World Class wines being produced there; some extraordinary buys are becoming available. Most of these top end wines are made in miniscule quantities, driving investment values ever higher. On the downside, there are many European collectors who mock these wines as being too rich, thick, alcoholic and flamboyant and yet when they are matched blind against the best of Bordeaux, they are equal too and often surpass these much more expensive European wines. Uplifts of some of these incredibly powerful and intense Australian wines have been what can only be described as astonishing, sometimes by 200-500% in a matter of months, rather than years.
When to invest?
When to start investing in wine, anytime is generally a good time to start, however now we have run into potentially the world’s worse recession, surely this is not the time to start? Actually this is a great time to start, the top wines of 2005 Bordeaux saw massive uplifts over one year, often more than 100% on the opening price, and in certain instances like Ausone 150%, Carruades de Lafite 170% (the second wine of Chateau Lafite) and the most impressive of all, La Mission Haut Brion a massive 220% uplift in less than one year. These prices have to soften given the economic climate as people try to unload some of these stocks raising desperately needed capital, we believe the bottom of the market will come in early 2010 and these wines will hopefully come off by 20% or more by then. This will be a good time to grab hold of these wines, in the interim, opening prices of great wines from other regions produced in 2007 will be coming to the markets during 2009. For example, great wines have been made in 2007 from the Rhone, both Tuscany and Spain had superb conditions and with lower demand for these this year, opportunities will present themselves for individuals to snap up what potentially could become the finest wines made on the planet during this vintage. The recession will not last, sometime we will come out of it and prices will rise again, and if you’re lucky enough to have bagged some of these greatest wines made, then returns will again be stellar over the medium/long term.
There are also the stars of the future, many new wines are being made today and new wineries are being set up at what can only be described as an alarming rate, but a small few will become the major players of the next decade and beyond. Finding these early on can prove to be most lucrative to potential investors, an example of this would be the Super Tuscan, Tua Rita winery and their top label Redigaffi, released in 1997, their 1994 vintage sold at £340.00 per dozen opening price, rated 93 points for the first time by Robert Parker (now Tua Rita is regarded as one of the best wineries of the World) in 2008 a single Double Magnum of this wine sold at auction for £9,000, this gave an uplift over 11 years of approximately 6,600%. In 1997 the Tua Rita winery was virtually unknown. This is unusual but not unheard of, another example could be the 1982 Chateau Lafleur, again in 1983 Pomerol was regarded as the poor neighbour of Bordeaux, the opening price of the 1982 Lafleur in 1983 was £99.00 per case, however in 2008 it was selling for a staggering £28,000 per case! Finding the future stars is the most profitable of all wine investments.
Examples of a balanced Portfolio would include, the usual suspects;
Bordeaux
Bellevue Mondotte, Cheval Blanc, Haut Brion, Lafite Rothschild, Latour, Margaux, Mouton Rothschild, Pavie, Petrus,
2nd tier investment wines. L’Angelus, Ausone, Clinet, Ducru Beaucaillou, Lafleur, Leoville Barton, Leoville las Cases, La Mission Haut Brion, La Mondotte, Montrose, Palmer, Pichon Longueville, Le Tertre Roteboeuf, Troplong Mondot, Trotonoy
Burgundy
DRC, Leroy, Dugat Py, Comtes Lafon, Comte de Vogue
Rhone
Paul Jaboulet Aine, Beaucastle, Henri Bonneau, Chapoutier, J.L. Chave, Yves Cuilleron, Guigal, de la Mordoree, Clos des Papes, Pegau, Rayas, Rene Rostaing, Roger Sabon, Pierre Usseglio
Italy
Bussola, Aldo Conterno, Dal Forno, Gaja, Giacosa, Tua Rita, Le Macchiole, Sassicaia.
Spain
Artadi, Clos Erasmus, Clos Mogador,El Nido, Alvaro Palacios, Pingus, Benjamin Romeo, Vega Sicilia
Australia
Amon Ra, Jim Barry, Clarendon Hills, Greenock Creek, Henschke, Noon, Three Rivers, Torbreck, Yalumba.
New Stars
There are a few wineries coming into public attention and others with as yet nothing is known, the finest we are aware of currently are Duemani the new Super Tuscan owned by Luca DAttoma one of the best Italian winemakers, and yet another with incredible wines in the making, Zyme from the Veneto. This winery is doing some wonderful things and the release of their top wines will not come until 2010, we plan to be there for that. Another winery which I think might be the equal of Lafleur is the tiny Pomerol estate La Violette, again nothing is known of this yet, but look out for this in the future.
Funding
Having agreed on what amount to invest you will be issued with an invoice and on payment, a selection of wines or advance notice of wines allocated to your bond account. We are able to offer various payment options including deferred payment and monthly direct debits, please contact George Ledger for further details.
Storage
We recommend that all investment wines are purchased by you In Bond and stored in a bonded tax warehouse. This is a storage facility which effectively allows the wines to be stored on entering the country from other countries outside the tax system. Wines lying in bond can be sold in bond and transferred from one account to another within the warehouse where they are lying or to an account at another bonded warehouse in the UK or exported, without having to pay the duty and VAT. The duty and VAT will only be due when and if the wines are removed from bond into free circulation (duty paid) at which point they are ready for delivery to your home for drinking.
Only when the wine is removed into what is called free circulation, will the excise duty, which is approximately £18.50 for a dozen bottle case, and the VAT @ 17.5% on the purchase price become due for payment. For investment purposes it makes sense to leave the wine In Bond and avoid paying these charges for the present. This has two benefits, firstly there is unequivocal providence with the wine, all serious buyers want this, and secondly, the wine can be sold on in bond to a dealer, broker, merchant or private individual. It is worth noting, when selling at auction; it may be wise to pre-pay the duty and VAT as the auction price will include/exclude VAT at hammer which can have a dramatic effect on your returns, seek advice on each disposal as and when.
It is wise to have your own bond account to maintain control of your investments. Most have temperature control, and full replacement value insurance. The wines are stored under each client’s individual “Protection Plus” account number, fully labelled and can only be released or moved with his or her written instructions. No right of lien can be exercised over wines held on each client’s behalf. Client’s stock can be inspected, by arrangement, at almost at any time excluding November & December.
Annual storage costs are detailed below
STORAGE CHARGES
R. H. & D. COSTS £3.50 PER CASE (1 OFF CHARGE)
IN BOND
1-3 Cases £8.00-£16.00 Per Case of 12 per annum
4+ CASES £7.00-£12.00 C/S PER YEAR
25+ CASES £6.00-£8.00 C/S PER YEAR
All storage charges are subject to VAT @ 17.5%
Tracking your investment
Having decided to invest you will no doubt be keen to keep an eye on the progress of your portfolio. We will be happy to value your wines at regular intervals simply call us or send us an e-mail
How do I liquidate part or all of the investment?
In the future possibly during 2010 we are setting up a client reserves brokerage arm which will specialise in offering out for sale client wines through the web site from which we will charge a 10% handling fee of the sales price. Alternatively wine swaps may be offered, to supplement each individual clients ongoing drinking requirements should this be of interest. There are always more than one valuation of any wine, like any investment, what the buyer wants to pay, and what the seller wants in return. Generally auction prices are a reasonable guide, but certain auctions do far better than others and we can advise fully in this matter. Furthermore, advertised prices of wines stocks are freely available through information web sites e.g. http://www.wine-searcher.com an internet based platform used by wine merchants and private buyers alike. These prices would reflect a truer value of the portfolio than possibly distressed auction prices.
There are other ways to dispose of your fine wines, today there is also consumer to consumer marketplace, these are independent services for individuals offering wines for sale. The storage history (providence) of all wines and in particular older fine wines is of extreme importance. Buyers using this method of purchasing wines should exercise caution and make every effort to check the authenticity, condition and providence of the wines offered for sale. Other services will no doubt be created in the near future.
Realising returns
Premier vintners will strive to attain the highest prices and returns for their clients by advising the best course of action with each and every individual wine held within the portfolio on a case by case basis. Our goal is simple, provide a service which enables the end client to invest for a period of five years and then to reap the rewards by having the consumption wines paid for out of profits whilst still maintaining the value of the portfolio.
wonder how many wine investment company in singapore selling wines to investors but they have only 1 case in stocks?
please check with a this very reliable wine investment company Bordeaux Liquid Gold http://www.bordeauxliquidgold.com they have just started their office before 2009 En Primeur campaign starts and is selling alot of 2009 En Primeur which prices are cheaper than most wine merchants, please contact them and buy from them
The trial of six people involved in three allegedly fraudulent wine investment companies started in St Albans Crown Court this week.
Bordeaux 2005: fraudsters allegedly sold £2.5m of non-existent wine
Investors were cold-called and persuaded to invest in Bordeaux en primeur mainly 2005 First Growths.
The three companies involved are Bordeaux Wine Trading Company, International Wine Commodities Ltd and Templar Vintners Ltd.
Although the victims paid a total of £2.5m, it is alleged that the fraudulent companies only ever had one £10,350 case of wine in stock. No other orders were placed with suppliers.
Instead the defendants spent the money on luxury goods, including cars and designer watches.
The court heard today of a spending spree by 37-year old Paul Craven, who ran the Bordeaux Wine Trading Company.
In October 2006 he bought BMW convertible for £20,600. In November he spent over £16,000 on various items in Selfridges including Ozwald Boateng clothes and Cartier watches. In January 2007 Craven bought an electric wine cooler (£1225) as well as a Jacuzzi bath and bathroom TV.
In October 2007 Craven bought a black RR sport Land Rover for £55,700.
The next month he bought a black BMW sports convertible for his girlfriend, paying £32,162 on the spot by debit card.
There are a number of charges. Niklas Cashman, Paul Craven, Oseghale Hayble and Benedict Moruthoane are charged with conspiracy to defraud.
Benedict Moruthoane and Andrew Griffiths are charged with fraud and Anita Lanskill with transferring criminal property. Although the case is linked, it is believed that none of the defendants was involved in all three companies.
The trial continues and is expected to last four to five weeks
@AlvinLim, you are a winebroker from that company ain’t you? Previously from PLA I reckon?
Company just set up this year and you claim they are “very reliable”? On what basis you make such claim? Because selling cheaper than other merchants?
You all are nonsense, DO NOT invest anymore wines.
can somebody tell me if I can buy en primeur 2009? seen Bordeaux Liquid Gild website, they cliam to have a public listed director from Hong Kong as a shareholder can someone provide me with this company detail or is it another company ready to fly by night in 1-2 years?
Investment in wines, which is now estimated to be worth $3bn a year, was formalised in 1999 when the London International Vintners Exchange (Liv-ex) was established as a trading platform.
A number of wine investment funds have been created, which allow investors to buy into a portfolio of wines (although almost all trading is still in Bordeaux wines). The wines are stored in warehouses and insured.
According to a Financial Times report, the prices of the very best wines have risen by an average 15% a year over the past 25 years. Some 1% of all wine produced is seen as investment grade.
Although the fine wine market initially looked resilient during the financial crisis, prices started weakening towards the end of last year.
Since then, however, strength has returned. According to one of the most prominent wine asset managers, the Wine Investment Fund, its fine wine index should gain 18% this year. Record prices are expected for the 2009 vintage from Bordeaux.
The attraction of wine as an investment is that prices are usually relatively stable. Also, it offers diversification – prices do not directly track those of shares and bonds.
And while there are growing numbers of emerging market investors, particular from China, supplies remain limited.
For investors in wine investment funds – usually registered in the UK – all returns are also free from capital gains tax, as it is seen as a “wasting asset” by the UK tax authorities.
think about in case a lot of websites for my want to include just bookmark
Hi Samuel and Lionel,
I have encountered problems in selling my portfolios of wines too?
How to go about to MAS or CAD to report these issues?
They have no status update for my wines as well as no quote. I am dead worried now……Pls help.
#
Samuel on July 9th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
HI Lionel
My friend and I been to the office a few times to meetup this Andrew,he dont even know what he is doing, until now, our wines NOT even sold a single bottle.The article about the Director of AWI is making us more worried.He tried many times wanting to meet Jeremy Kasler,but it seems like he hasnt been in singapore for long time.
Andrew will always tell us no problem, no problem, always give us empty promises.And 1 thing they didnt know is , they tried to sell my wines to other investors, and happened that 1 of those they approach is a friend of mine, so basically we know that they are selling investors wines to other investors, trying to roll the wine from 1 investor to another investor.
We have also make a report to MAS and CAD now, so all these people will be arrested, they are gathering information now and soon we will see how AWI going to proof their innocent especially Jeremy Kasler has a record of SCAM done in Australia and Australia Government also issue a warning against him.
We are tired of going to them asking to sell the wines, now let the relevant bodies to handle.i can tell everyone here that I am really so disappointed with this investment.
Hi Val,
Any way to contact you, I have bulk aust wine. Interested please email me
I am disgusted with wine especially Aussie wines, perhaps Jonathan you can contact Australian Wine Index, they may need alot of aussie wines to sell to new investors, btw it seems the administrator here is able to track and provide anyone’s IP address if you post here, so better not bad mouth anyone or any company here in order not to have legal issues…
seems like this forum is created for the brokers to bad mouth each other.
Hi, just came across this very depressing thread having read about the forthcoming sale of some of UAG’s wines soon via Knight Frank. I am a wine buyer for a large company in Singapore and London and I would be extremely cautious buying any Australian & En primeur Bordeaux wines for investment from Singapore/Asia. If you’d like some advice on companies in the market then I would be happy to share my experience as a buyer off the record. Just to be clear i don’t sell wine investments and recommend anyone considering investing in wine visits http://investdrinks-blog.blogspot.com/. Please feel free to email me.
Personally I invested in Bordeaux fine wines myself since a couple of years back. I’m still investing now and have since reap the first round returns.
First thing first, u have to check out the company background before u start your investments or else u gonna end up with bad brokers who don’t know what they are doing but mostly just interested in the commissions. And doesn’t even care whether your portfolio are even profiting. Fine wine investments is however low risk investments that requires 2-3 years.
I’m not gonna list out any company names here in case u guys misleaded that I’m a broker. But wine investment is not well known here and I feel like I should voice out myself. So that people out that coulees actually know that there’s such a industry where everyone could make some money over the years.
Just becareful about the choice of company and maybe if u’re really interested, just source around for friends that have invested.
anyone has any latest updates on AUTRALIAN WINE INDEX??? how is the case now?
Not very sure, but apparently the company is still functioning. Australia wines are good to drink, but not for investment purposes? I tot they said that the wines they are selling are some u-lu unknown types?
Has anyone heard anything about a rumored takeover bid on AWI and how it will affect our portfolio’s?
Is this real or just another scam?
I’ve followed this forum since I first bought wines from AWI 2 years ago but this is my first time to post a reply.
Frank
Yes , but i believed not , anyone tried calling awi to verify if they have sold the company and someone taking over?
Well, if they are really selling away the company and someone is taking over, I don’t think they would even admit it.
Anyone see the press release on google search about the australian wine index takeover?
What does mean for us investors and our wine portfolios?
Can we also included our portfolios in the buyout or will we be stuck trying to sell our wines on internet?
Please any advice on our next move?
Frank
http://www.free-press-release.com/news-australian-wine-index-becomes-possible-target-of-takeover-bid-1291451796.html
guys does it mean that what Edward says about the auction is another bullshit ?
nobody will buy Australian Wine Index, it’s an empty shell…anyway you can release any news in any forum or free press release, that does not mean anything, just some fake rumours by Jeremy Kasler and his crooks
WARNING to all:
do NOT invest in Wine…. There are many many investment instruments out there, so if you are itchy to investment in something, there is no need to invest in wine.
1) I bought 100k and as far back as 2004… still stuck with their wine…
6) Still want to invest? If you do, you will be guaranteed plenty of wine to celebrate your Retirement… Thanks to your Wine investments….
7) This Wine investment is NOT liquid ( ie maybe easy to get in, but NOT Easy to exit…. other than paying GST + alcohol tax to take them out to drink)
Cheerio,
WARNING to all:
do NOT invest in Wine…. There are many many investment instruments out there, so if you are itchy to investment in something, there is no need to invest in wine.
I bought 50k , > 100k investments, as far back as 2004…all still stuck with the wine…
Still want to invest? If you do, you will be guaranteed plenty of wine to celebrate your Retirement… Thanks to your Wine investments….
This Wine investment is NOT liquid ( ie maybe easy to get in, but NOT Easy to exit…. other than paying GST + alcohol tax to take them out to drink)
Wishing all good health, happiness in life.
Cheerio,
WARNING to all:
do NOT invest in Wine.
There are many many investment instruments out there, so if you are itchy to investment in something, there is no need to invest in wine.
I bought 50k , > 100k investments, as far back as 2004. All still stuck with the wine.
STI and DOW has already returned to pre-crash levels. Which you means you should get your money back ( with interest and some profits ).
Still want to invest? If you do, you will be guaranteed plenty of wine to celebrate your Retirement. Thanks to your Wine investments. Not bad if may think, but what was the reason you invest in wine? To drink or to make money??
This Wine investment is NOT liquid ( ie maybe easy to get in, but NOT Easy to exit. other than paying GST + alcohol tax to take them out to drink)
Wishing all good health, happiness in life.
Cheerio,
Hi Guys,
pls read this too.
http://www.lioninvestor.com/wine-a-palatable-investment-by-saeed-shah/
Hi,
is there any Premium Liquid Assets investor having problem selling their wine investment?
I am one of the investor still got stuck with my investments for the past 2 years. My previous broker have left and I am trying to get PLA to response to my request to sell the wine but looks like their representative is trying to avoid me.
Would like to find out whether anyone having the same problem like me.
Hi Wine Investor,
Are you the ex-broker from Premium and now working for another wine company?
No, I am not.
Ivan, why do you think I am a ex-broker?
Are you a broker from PLA?
Hello Wine Investor aka Wine Broker.
You sound like a broker.
As this is the website speacially created for the brokers to bad mouth each other. Welcome here.
By the way, I’m not thinking you are the ex-broker. In fact you are still a broker.
Hi, Ivan,
I’ve no idea why you trying to mislead others to believe that I am from PLA.
Which part of my statement gave you this impression?
To iterate, I am not and I am a professional in my own field of work. I do not need to work as a broker to earn my living.
I hope you are not from PLA.
Both are idiot.
Has PLA change their name to wine investment advice?
i’m not sure but i heard they change thier name to bordeaux liquid gold.
can someone please verify , this website is doing PLA lucky draw
http://www.wineinvestmentadvice.com
Thanks
http://www.lioninvestor.com/uag-wine-buyback-gone-sour/
heard another company now doing the same thing here . Becareful
yes , heard about this again through their broker, looks like another co ready to fly.
I too was told of the fixed return by the broker who call me up. Is this company facing some difficulties in cash flow? It is really putting me on my nerves now.
I am still considering if i should sell off all my wines now just in case another company shut the door again.
Yes, I think better sell the wines before the company shut the door again. Never believed on something too good to be true. I received a call too, but I just say no thank u and hangup.
http://www.ifa-sg.com/another-wine-company-in-trouble/
Teresa, saw your post in your blog, yes I also heard news of the company in trouble with their aussie wines, I am not sure who is running the company now
I have gotten the clearance from the UAG liqudator to sell my aussie wines I bought from UAG 3 years ago but now stuck at the 12 degree wharehouse. Can anyone advise me how to sell them.
Hi mini! can u tell me how u got the clearance from UAG liquidator? i need to get my wines back also. How and who should i contact?
Few years back, just after i got to know that UAG is a scam, i spoke to an Australian wine merchant who is willing to take the wine at 40% of its market price, if you are interested. But i think its best to wait out, like wait for 4-5 more years, if u not in need of the money.
Hi ryan and other UAG victims, you are advised to quickly contact the Insolvency & Public Trustees Office (www.ipto.gov.sg) and show documents (official receipt, letter from warehouse etc) to prove to the liquidator that you are the actual owner of the physical wines, bought by you, but stored under UAG’s name in the warehouse. Else the liquidator may treat the “unclaimed” wines as part of UAG’s asset and dispose them when winding up UAG. Btw, does anyone know how to check the market price of the Aussie wine or do you know any genuine wine agent that can help to sell the aussie wine?
After Universal Assets Group (UAG) and Assets Wine Management (AWM) went into trouble, another wine company seems destined to follow suit. According to my sources, the company is still around but is having trouble giving back the wines that clients have bought. The firm seem to have used the same batch of wines to sell to different investors. Now that investors want to sell the wine, the firm is not able to come out with the goods. The firm had also made huge mark-ups from the original price and investors made losses due to this.
In July 2009, The Straits Times reported that up to 1000 investors stand to loose their investments with UAG, ranging from $6,000 to $91,000, after being investigated by the police. In July 2010, The New Paper reported that the couple Benny Lee Ghim Seng and Kally Quee Yen Ping have became uncontactable.
My contact also revealed some juicy details about a wine merchant from Australia whose owner was investigated in Australia for running a Timeshare scam. The owners from the new wine firm in trouble is from this Australian wine merchant.
There is no way the news can be validated. Only time can tell if my contact is telling the truth. However, do not fall prey to scammers just because they have flashy websites, impressive brochures and sprouting french lingo like En Primeur, Chateau and what have you.
Look around you, there are plenty of such companies around.
I know which company you are talking about Mr Tan.yes the company is in trouble , problem unloading clients stocks.
There is only one wine investment company that is worth investing in, please refer to Bordeaux Liquid Gold http://www.bordeauxliquidgold.com please invest with this firm as the bosses are definitely the kings of wine investment in Asia….amazing…this forum seems to be open to ex wine brokers or current wine investment firms faming one another…good thing I am out of this trade for sometime…
Yes , numerous emails and calls , no repond. They only keen to sell me more wines and ask for guarantee return.
anybody got news on this co PLA
http://australia-wine-index-fraud.blogspot.com/
I am forming a group of investors who believe they are scammed by AWI. The number of responses I have received is growing but the rate is not fast enough, I need more of you to join us. Regardless of whether the intention is to take action against AWI or to make plans for alternative exit strategies, none of these can work without strength in numbers. Join us to form a critical mass by going to this website http://australia-wine-index-fraud.blogspot.com/
hi need some tips from wine expert here. Recently someone call me offering a fixed return of 12% in a year to buy french wines , they seems to be a reputable company as I have visited them in their office. Has anyone here came across this investment? please enlighten me on this issue. thanks alot
Lawrence, you have to ask yourself if the company is reputable and if their plan is in favour of your position. I believe I know which company you are talking about which is Premium Liquid Assets, I have bought a parcel from them and I know it is to my advantage.
Unlike other plans I have encounter from (whether is it wine or property etc) the wine investment company actually transfer the physical wine assets to my possession in a reputable Bonded warehouse (Bordeau City Bond) before collecting the rest of my money. Noene of the wine investment comany in Singapore is doing that and I am well assured of my wines inside the warehouse and it legally belongs to me.
Whether does the copany fulfill their 12% promise to me in the near future is secondary as I know I am buying those wines (mostly genuine Lafites) slightly below market prices.
I know those Genuine Lafites will be of fantastic value looking at the demands of the Chinese market. I know the company have very little allocations and does not offer out to many new clients or other markets in their group of companies. I fthey does offer to you, check their prices and pay only when the wines are in your hands. Good bet in my opinion for them to fulfill the 12% returns rather than putting your money in the bank.
Dear Wine Investor
Thanks I guess I am not going to invest with them , heard alot about them in other forum. Appreciate your answer. Have a nice weekend
dear wine investor:I am a victim of guarantee return with uag, same stories was told to me like what happen to you.Greed made me fall into the trap ad now i lost every single penny i invest with them. Yes, you are right, lafite is good wine, but it also depend what year lafite you buy, not every year lafite is good. Also i learn from my lesson from uag that no such free lunch , i was greedy about the 12% and thats why i regretted now but it is too late. My wife told me not to go ahead , but i say what can goes wrong in 12 months , the co is so nice and spend so much on reno, but end up i am wrong and she is right.
Banks only offer maybe 1 % return in deposit , but how can co offer 12%? I was awaken when uag closed and agreed that i am in the fault to belived in something too good to be true. If you were to ask anyone here or people around your circle, i belived 100% they will tell you what i mentioned here.
if you have the time maybe you can also check out this forum
http://www.lioninvestor.com/wine-a-palatable-investment-by-saeed-shah/
good luck on your invetsment in guarantee return , hope all goes well.
Dear All
Please watch
http://comsg.blogspot.com/2009/07/uag-wine-investing.html
There seems to be a few people on here that seem to have it in for some of the more reputable wine investment companies out there. And i don’t mean UAG or AWI. As an investor in fine wines I have had my fair share of ups and downs, good vintages and bad vintages price rises and drops made money and lost money. The best advice I can give is DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH, do not listen to advice on blogs directing you one way or another look for independent advice sites there are many, just Google wine investment advice and you will find what you are looking for, do a company back ground check and find out how long they have been in business. The are so many 2 bit start up companies claiming to be experts, who have nothing better to do than bad mouth each others operations. Stay well clear of pushy sales people, make up you own mind and buy only the best wines from top Chateaux. Ask the company you deal with for proof that they have delivered wines to client and that they have strong contact to sell your wine in the future, don’t just take there word for it check it out. Visit there offices and test there Knowledge, ask difficult questions. When satisfied ask again! You will be happy with the results if you buy from the right people.
I totally agreed with Michael. Deal with the more reputable companies out there. Do your own research and don’t be afraid to ask questions. For me, I’ve been buying for the last 5 years and I’ve no problem with the company.
Bravo Michael! Good words and very good advice!
Yes, I totally agreed with Michael & Reno5576. Deal with companies like Cornerstone Wines who has been around since 1938. I’ve no issue with them since I last bought.
I wish to know anyone who got duped into buying wine from Vino En Primeur. I’m in the midst of suing them for misrepresentation. Anyone who bought the Hazyblur wine from them, you may drop me a SMS at 9791375 detailing your experiences. I may invite you to join in my lawsuit against them if you are keen.
I was able to sell my wines thru a private wine consolidator and registered auctioneer.
I received full credit for most of my wines and even a premium on a few of them. They do charge a commission but it’s not up front as in I was paid first and once the money arrived in my account I sent their commission via western union and I am very happy with their service.
The consolidator is based out of Clark Field Philippines and is currently buying wine from interested parties.
email me at michael.lee.port@gmail.com if you are interested in selling your wines as well.
Mike
Hello, I am new on this forum… Glad to see you all
My name is Ferio Larco. Living in California. Would like to find here new friends and to speak a bit about main topic:))
Dear All
Look below , hope this will happen to wine investment too. companies in sg is doing fixed returns, guarantee returns..all need to be check.
SIAS aware of plight of Profitable Plot investors
Apr 25
SINGAPORE: Securities Investors Association Singapore (SIAS) said it is aware of the plight of people who have invested in various Profitable Plot schemes.
In a media statement, SIAS said it will conduct a dialogue session with concerned Profitable Plot investors at 7pm on May 28 to discuss possible action for investment recovery.
SIAS will also assist with legal counsel.
Land banking firm Profitable Plots Private Limited is currently under probe by the Commercial Affairs Department.
Previous reports said that investors have put in some S$23.5 million in the company’s products.
About 4000 such investors who bought the products expecting high returns are now at risk of losing their money.
Some investors have alleged that the risks of the investments were never fully explained to them
Another Land Investment deal in Hawaii with 30% assured guarantee returns, so far 900 victims in Asia if deal gone sour
HUNDREDS of retail investors here bankrolling a 25ha property development in faraway Hawaii may be in for a nervy few months ahead.
A looming decision by the Hawaiian authorities to re-zone the land that the Lulana Gardens housing project is now being built on could spell trouble for their investments, totalling millions of dollars.
Because of delays in developing the site over the past two decades, the land could be returned to agricultural use by Hawaii’s Land Use Commission (LUC).
But Capital Asia Group (CAG), the Singapore-based property investment firm that sold the investments, told The Straits Times it is highly unlikely plans for the housing project will be derailed.
It said permits for building more than 400 townhouses in Lulana Gardens have been secured from the County of Hawaii, and construction is already under way.
Lulana Gardens is part of the first phase of a 442ha master site called The Villages of Aina Le’a, owned by Las Vegas-based developer DW Aina Le’a Development (DW). Last year, CAG arranged to raise US$62 million (S$81 million) to finance the first phase after DW was reportedly having difficulties amid the global credit crunch.
CAG sold subdivisions for US$9,600 a unit to retail investors here and in Asia, offering ‘assured returns of 30 per cent in 2-1/2 years’. Investors get a land title deed and, eventually, ready home-buyers for the townhouses.
So far, more than 800 investors from Asia have invested more than US$20 million. Exact figures for Singapore investors were not available but hundreds are said to have invested.
The project has now hit a stumbling block with the LUC decision last year to rescind the master site’s urban land use classification after nearly 20 years of delays by previous developers.
Since then, the LUC, which regulates land use in Hawaii, has been hearing arguments on why it should not revert the site back for agricultural use.
DW made headlines in recent months after it missed some conditions set by the LUC for Lulana Gardens. The firm was supposed to complete 385 townhouses by Nov 17 but has delivered only 16 to date, with 24 more to come.
It has asked the LUC for a two-year extension to complete the remaining units.
An LUC staff member told The Straits Times yesterday that the commission is due to hear more arguments on the case next month, but he could not say when a decision would be made. But transcripts from the last hearing on Nov 18 show the project is not short of supporters.
No fewer than 20 witnesses, including many from the local community, had appealed to the LUC to grant DW the extension to see the project through.
Lawyers representing the previous land owner Bridge Aina Le’a, who are now co-petitioners, warned the LUC last month that the US$20 million invested in the project to date would be ‘wiped out’ if the LUC considers ‘killing’ the project.
But CAG business development director Paul Tan was confident the LUC would support the extension. The project ‘can offer so much more to the community’, he said.
Clients such as Mr Jonathan Quek, a wealth and finance coach who invested in three units of the project with his mother, say there is no reason to panic.
‘There are some delays but I’m not too bothered… 16 houses have already been completed so let’s give it some time,’ he said.
The first batch of investors who invested in Lulana Gardens may reap their returns by the middle of next year, as DW will launch the sale of the first 16 completed townhouses by year-end, said Mr Tan.
In any case, investing in land or property overseas always comes with some risks, said financial expert William Cai, director of GYC Financial Advisory.
‘For an overseas investor, there could be many unknown factors,’ he said.
Bordeaux 2010 New Benchmark for Wines, below are stilla few reasons why holding on physical wines are still good compare to other alternative investments whereby you are only been given a piece of paper!
I have bought into 2009 and can;t wait to sell it off the moment 2010 wine prices are out!
The indications are that Bordeaux 2010 will be a memorable vintage on both the right and left banks – and that while prices will be higher than last year, Bordeaux lovers will find something at all levels.
Steven Spurrier, Decanter’s consultant editor, suggested that with this vintage and the equally-memorable 2009, a new benchmark will have been set for the cost of the wines at the top level.
‘The chateaux have seen their prices accepted: the ceiling has broken and a new one has been established.’
Spurrier’s view is that opening prices of around $400 for first growths, €120-€150 for ‘Super Seconds’ like Cos d’Estournel and Montrose and €50 for highly-regarded lesser growths like Branaire Ducru and Langoa-Barton are now the norm.
‘We will see solidification. I don’t think the chateaux want speculation this year. I think they will release at 5-10% more than last year, and I think they’ll do it quickly – well before Vinexpo in June.’
In Bordeaux there’s little doubt that the wines will be as expensive as last year.
‘There is a consensus in the wine trade that it is very unlikely that prices will come down on last year, and likely that they will stay the same,’ Jean-Guillaume Prats at Cos d’Estournel told Decanter.com.
He also said that if there’s an increase, it will ‘probably be accepted’, pointing out that merchants were riding high on the boost the excellent 2009 had given lesser vintages that were proving sluggish like 2008 and 2007, and that they had seen the prices of many other vintages go up.
The UK wine trade agrees, and does not seem to be phased by the prospect of selling 2010 – indeed, the quality of the vintage meant that smaller properties would be the most interesting.
Tim Parkins of Stokes Fine Wines, for example, said 2010 is ‘a vintage we can do business with’, namechecking ‘entry level’ wines like the Cru Bourgeois Chateau Sénéjac as examples of properties that would sell well.
Anthony Tindal of Dublin’s Tindal Wine Merchants was ‘enthused’ by the quality of the vintage and said he would be buying ‘more wines than last year’, looking at the St Emilion ‘satellite’ appellations Lussac, Montagne, Parsac, Puisseguin and St Georges.
Matthew Hemming of Averys of Bristol said he was ‘circumspect’: price was an issue, but his top private buyers had already indicated to him that they would buy.
Stephen Williams of the Antique Wine Company thought Bordeaux ‘would see no reason to drop prices’ though ‘they would not dare raise them while the economic recovery remains fragile.’
When all the scores are in, and if the vintage turns out to be as well-received – at all levels – as Bordeaux hopes, then being priced out of the top wines may not cause too much pain.
As Spurrier said, ‘There are lots of wines that I have always bought that I now can’t afford or don’t want to afford. I won’t be buying Leoville Barton or Grand Puy Lacoste this year.
‘But that’s no problem as there are so many good wines coming up to take their place.’
Dear All especially to whoever those wine investment company management or brokers here.
I would advised all of the investors to spread news about all these people and new companies, tell your friends , relatives to be aware of all these people and new wine companies, LET ALL these companies close down so that they will not have any more new victims falling into their traps.
Its has been mentioned that these companies people might be already married and got kids, 1 days when their children goes to school and will be ask by the other kids why your father is scamming people money.Think for your children and STOP all these wine scam.1 day when your name and pictures being published in the News Paper or Internet, your father, mother, wife, kids, relative will be sad and how can they face the world.
LOOK AT DOMINIC parents now, they are living in Shame now,both the sons are involved in scam and on the run, they are going to live with it all their life,investors are going after his parents for money. If you really think for your family,do STOP scamming.For all those new company who is trying and thinking of scamming, these will happen to your family too.
Please dont believed in all these wine and guarantee return.
Great blog, but MS beta software… really? For my blog, I’d switch to WP (wordpress) – I ended up having to due to spammers, and I use ‘Akismet’ now. Try it out!
I found a very good program to make money online see my link http://www.geniusfunds.net.
Well
On-line pharmacy,offering online-prescription medication
[url=http://erection.md-pills.info/cealis/index.html] order generic[/url]
and more. Buy from internet,drugius without prescription,at affordable discount prices.Order pill here now!
Pa!!!
————————————
http://health.md-pills.info/
please moderate my reply date 3rd of may
#
Simon on May 3rd, 2011 at 6:08 pm Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Found this post back from 2007, The speaker mentioned as sales manager for AWI, is now running a new company in Singapore Bordeaux Liquid Gold… amazing! Probably best avoid his advice.
http://www.smartexpos.com/smartexpo2007/octSG/speaker_bio.htm
Take a look at the How to profit from wines section. Interesting.
I wonder if it is him that posted this on the 16th of march! in this forum.
#
Dian Lim on March 16th, 2011 at 1:05 am
There is only one wine investment company that is worth investing in, please refer to Bordeaux Liquid Gold http://www.bordeauxliquidgold.com please invest with this firm as the bosses are definitely the kings of wine investment in Asia….amazing…this forum seems to be open to ex wine brokers or current wine investment firms faming one another…good thing I am out of this trade for sometime…
Be careful!
Simon on May 3rd, 2011 at 6:08 pm Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Found this post back from 2007, The speaker mentioned as sales manager for AWI, is now running a new company in Singapore Bordeaux Liquid Gold… amazing! Probably best avoid his advice.
htp://www.smartexpos.com/smartexpo2007/octSG/speaker_bio,htm
Take a look at the How to profit from wines section. Interesting.
I wonder if it is him that posted this on the 16th of march! in this forum.
#
Dian Lim on March 16th, 2011 at 1:05 am
There is only one wine investment company that is worth investing in, please refer to Bordeaux Liquid Gold htp://www.bordeauxliquidgold,com please invest with this firm as the bosses are definitely the kings of wine investment in Asia….amazing…this forum seems to be open to ex wine brokers or current wine investment firms faming one another…good thing I am out of this trade for sometime…
Be careful!
WINE INVESTMENTS, is it still the “best kept” secret, or simply an accident waiting to happen?
There are without doubt so many companies around the World, selling wine as an investment, all too often quoting superb performance ratios of mainly big Bordeaux Chateau over the past 5-40 years. It has to be said that the wines quoted have performed extremely well and indeed wine investments have generally easily outperformed most other traditional types of investment, but the market is narrow, mostly Red Bordeaux wines, top marc Champagne, Rhone and Italian and in particular a few top Tuscan wines.
The city has recently been suffering very badly from poor performance ratios in all areas, including PEPs, ISAs, Pensions, Stocks, Shares et al, and now property is falling also certainly confidence in these more traditional areas seems to be at an all time low.
Wine as an alternative investment.
Fine Wines can be a safe haven for investors in difficult times, anticipated growth in wine futures look good, even today with a worldwide recession, over the past 30 years most companies suggest 15-20% growth, tax free! With annualised growth of 1000-2500% and more over the period of 15-25 years equating to 14-18% compound interest. But these figures are mostly based on the top 10 Bordeaux Chateau and a few top Champagnes on opening prices of the great vintages only. Buyer beware holds true of buying investment wines as with any other investment.
True, there are no capital gains when a wine has a life expectancy of less than 50 years, as it attains a Chattel Status, taking it outside of the capital gains ruling when re-sold. There is great kudos in owning great wines or a decent cellar and if your finances make a dramatic upturn over the next decade, then you can enjoy the wines, safe in the knowledge that they were purchased for a much lower figure than then current market values.
What makes Fine Wine increase in value?
Investing in fine wines has been around for centuries, often hoarded by collectors and connoisseurs alike. Those with good knowledge, as I used to do, would purchase twice as much of a particular wine than they required for themselves, selling off highly profitable mature stocks down the line to replenish their cellars with newer vintages, more often with the side benefit of having all of their own drinking wines paid for out of these profits following 5-10 years of investing. Over the past couple of decades, fine wine has garnered a much wider audience, becoming part of a lifestyle along the lines of fine art, for any of the rich and famous, and maintaining a cellar of fine wines has increasingly been regarded as a necessary accoutrement of success. The massive increase in home underground cellars being installed throughout the Country is testament to the increased demand of fine wines.
The world has recently found a new phenomenon, wine speculation; which is fuelled by so much consumer information from the plethora of wine journalists, led by Robert Parker and his team. This American gentleman has had a seriously profound effect in the marketplace with the simplified 100 point system he devised back in 1980. Previously all wine was sold on the Chateaux’s reputation and vintage alone, not on the intrinsic value of the wine, this simplified system has had dramatic effect on firstly the American markets and is now commonplace throughout the world. Prices are set according to his ratings, with the main Bordeaux Chateaux benefiting financially. Demand for these highly rated wines has risen dramatically and will continue to do so over the long term now with the Asian markets demanding all of the top wines. It seems the Far East has recently become known as the WILD WEST of fine wine, and a strong possibility exists that the fine wine market which has been slowly moving from London to the US over the past decade will suddenly head south to Hong Kong now that they have abolished the 40% import duties. Russia has been strong recently and Brazil is getting in on the action as is India with so many mega rich individuals in these countries being created. So demand for the top wines will continue to increase over the long term.
Due to the 1855 classification of Bordeaux wineries, supply is limited by the geographic area of the chateaux. They have been at full capacity for more than a century already; in fact over the past couple of decades production is actually reducing as each individual Chateau strives to increase and improve quality by reducing yields, seeking the higher Parker scores and the accompanying high status, following demand and of course higher selling prices.
Ultimately prices will continue to escalate over the long term, however during the past six or seven years the main Bordeaux Chateaux have looked to ascertain what the market will bear based on the Parker scores and set their prices accordingly. Over the past few years we have seen prices of en-primeur Bordeaux wines being offered out at levels higher than older 100 point rated wines currently selling for in bottle. The en-primeur wine still isn’t finished, and so much can go wrong, not to mention the fact that in the main, Parker Scores generally decrease rather than increase and subsequent re-sale values follow accordingly.
Where then and how do I invest in wine?
As with any investment, the quality of the advice you are given is paramount. What, where and when to buy, these together with careful and cost effective management of your portfolio will make the difference between a reasonable or very satisfying return on your money.
Work with people who have expertise in the field, there are some traditional UK wine merchants with a wealth of experience, however most of these buy from the same wineries every year, regardless of vintage variation, so be aware, that they all have wines to sell every year in order to maintain their allocations. It is also worth noting, the better wines with higher ratings do not need to be sold, buyers and brokers clamber for their allocations early on, so you need to be quite aware of the market movements. There are a plethora of Brokers, some extremely successful, these are specialist people or companies who will buy as much of a top rated wine from other merchants and mark them up, sometimes by a huge margins. For the most part, when dealing with brokers, you have already missed the boat, or at least the first big uplift.
Another possibility for many would be one of the fairly new Wine Funds which have sprung up over the past five years or so, these have good bond facilities and auditors, but there are some searching questions which need to be asked about these funds, one is, there are management charges to the funds and these range from 2.5% to 20% per annum! Next is where are the wines held, often they are in multiple countries and it is difficult to verify these holdings. Finally whilst wine remains a wasting asset, and therefore capital gains free, the fund is a financial vehicle and as such subject to normal taxes. Quite how these vehicles will perform over the long term is an unknown, but given the above, it is not a vehicle I would tend to invest my money into.
Alternatively find somebody in whom you can trust, a merchant who has your interest at heart as well as their own future. Reliable and trustworthy people are out there working to retain your ongoing business for the future, and these are the people you should seek out. Purchase from these and hold the wines in your own name, in your own bond account, if selling these companies fail; you may well lose your investment in full.
What should I buy? How much should I invest? How long will it take?
We recommend a minimum investment of £5000 per annum is a realistic sum to achieve a balanced portfolio; this would be over and above your normal drinking wines. Wine investment is not generally a short-term venture, five to ten years is the average period that we normally recommend you hold onto your investment wines. What to buy for investment is fairly straightforward, the best wines from the best vintages and the best producers at the lowest prices, preferably first offer prices.
A balanced portfolio covers a cross section of different wine regions and countries, spreading the potential risk and rewards. As mentioned earlier, Bordeaux has been the main driver for investment wines historically, and some older top flight wines still look reasonable when compared to more recent vintages and in particular 2005 Bordeaux price levels, but providence is paramount. In particular first growth wines from 1982 and 1996 are still priced below newer vintages, particularly the 2000 and 2005 vintages. Burgundy, has not proved to be a great investment overall, save for a tiny handful of the very best, e.g. DRC and Lalou Bize Leroy, but opening prices of these wines are often astronomical due to high demand. Rhone is generally sound, again when finding the best of the best. We see Rhone wines as offering good long term uplift potential.
Where else, to look? Champagne is a good safe bet when buying the from the best producers, Cristal is the top name, but I personally cannot understand why, perhaps it’s the clear bottle that sets it apart, Krug is in our opinion a far better range, and Dom Perignon virtually always does well, the 1996 released in 2005 @ £650 a case was selling for £1,800 by 2008, and the 1996 Drappier Carte d’Or is potentially a blinding bet for the future, we released this in late 2006 at £330, price now £450, but older vintages also with 96 points are selling for £3,000 a case! Italian prices are sometimes very high to begin and see smaller uplifts in selling prices, with a few exciting exceptions, but Spain is beginning to flourish with a host of producers totally committed to quality making great wines for reasonable prices. Another Country, Australia is leading the field with a host of super premium wines at very realistic prices. Robert Parker has now come to fully appreciate the range of World Class wines being produced there; some extraordinary buys are becoming available. Most of these top end wines are made in miniscule quantities, driving investment values ever higher. On the downside, there are many European collectors who mock these wines as being too rich, thick, alcoholic and flamboyant and yet when they are matched blind against the best of Bordeaux, they are equal too and often surpass these much more expensive European wines. Uplifts of some of these incredibly powerful and intense Australian wines have been what can only be described as astonishing, sometimes by 200-500% in a matter of months, rather than years.
When to invest?
When to start investing in wine, anytime is generally a good time to start, however now we have run into potentially the world’s worse recession, surely this is not the time to start? Actually this is a great time to start, the top wines of 2005 Bordeaux saw massive uplifts over one year, often more than 100% on the opening price, and in certain instances like Ausone 150%, Carruades de Lafite 170% (the second wine of Chateau Lafite) and the most impressive of all, La Mission Haut Brion a massive 220% uplift in less than one year. These prices have to soften given the economic climate as people try to unload some of these stocks raising desperately needed capital, we believe the bottom of the market will come in early 2010 and these wines will hopefully come off by 20% or more by then. This will be a good time to grab hold of these wines, in the interim, opening prices of great wines from other regions produced in 2007 will be coming to the markets during 2009. For example, great wines have been made in 2007 from the Rhone, both Tuscany and Spain had superb conditions and with lower demand for these this year, opportunities will present themselves for individuals to snap up what potentially could become the finest wines made on the planet during this vintage. The recession will not last, sometime we will come out of it and prices will rise again, and if you’re lucky enough to have bagged some of these greatest wines made, then returns will again be stellar over the medium/long term.
There are also the stars of the future, many new wines are being made today and new wineries are being set up at what can only be described as an alarming rate, but a small few will become the major players of the next decade and beyond. Finding these early on can prove to be most lucrative to potential investors, an example of this would be the Super Tuscan, Tua Rita winery and their top label Redigaffi, released in 1997, their 1994 vintage sold at £340.00 per dozen opening price, rated 93 points for the first time by Robert Parker (now Tua Rita is regarded as one of the best wineries of the World) in 2008 a single Double Magnum of this wine sold at auction for £9,000, this gave an uplift over 11 years of approximately 6,600%. In 1997 the Tua Rita winery was virtually unknown. This is unusual but not unheard of, another example could be the 1982 Chateau Lafleur, again in 1983 Pomerol was regarded as the poor neighbour of Bordeaux, the opening price of the 1982 Lafleur in 1983 was £99.00 per case, however in 2008 it was selling for a staggering £28,000 per case! Finding the future stars is the most profitable of all wine investments.
Examples of a balanced Portfolio would include, the usual suspects;
Bordeaux
Bellevue Mondotte, Cheval Blanc, Haut Brion, Lafite Rothschild, Latour, Margaux, Mouton Rothschild, Pavie, Petrus,
2nd tier investment wines. L’Angelus, Ausone, Clinet, Ducru Beaucaillou, Lafleur, Leoville Barton, Leoville las Cases, La Mission Haut Brion, La Mondotte, Montrose, Palmer, Pichon Longueville, Le Tertre Roteboeuf, Troplong Mondot, Trotonoy
Burgundy
DRC, Leroy, Dugat Py, Comtes Lafon, Comte de Vogue
Rhone
Paul Jaboulet Aine, Beaucastle, Henri Bonneau, Chapoutier, J.L. Chave, Yves Cuilleron, Guigal, de la Mordoree, Clos des Papes, Pegau, Rayas, Rene Rostaing, Roger Sabon, Pierre Usseglio
Italy
Bussola, Aldo Conterno, Dal Forno, Gaja, Giacosa, Tua Rita, Le Macchiole, Sassicaia.
Spain
Artadi, Clos Erasmus, Clos Mogador,El Nido, Alvaro Palacios, Pingus, Benjamin Romeo, Vega Sicilia
Australia
Amon Ra, Jim Barry, Clarendon Hills, Greenock Creek, Henschke, Noon, Three Rivers, Torbreck, Yalumba.
New Stars
There are a few wineries coming into public attention and others with as yet nothing is known, the finest we are aware of currently are Duemani the new Super Tuscan owned by Luca DAttoma one of the best Italian winemakers, and yet another with incredible wines in the making, Zyme from the Veneto. This winery is doing some wonderful things and the release of their top wines will not come until 2010, we plan to be there for that. Another winery which I think might be the equal of Lafleur is the tiny Pomerol estate La Violette, again nothing is known of this yet, but look out for this in the future.
Funding
Having agreed on what amount to invest you will be issued with an invoice and on payment, a selection of wines or advance notice of wines allocated to your bond account. We are able to offer various payment options including deferred payment and monthly direct debits, please contact George Ledger for further details.
Storage
We recommend that all investment wines are purchased by you In Bond and stored in a bonded tax warehouse. This is a storage facility which effectively allows the wines to be stored on entering the country from other countries outside the tax system. Wines lying in bond can be sold in bond and transferred from one account to another within the warehouse where they are lying or to an account at another bonded warehouse in the UK or exported, without having to pay the duty and VAT. The duty and VAT will only be due when and if the wines are removed from bond into free circulation (duty paid) at which point they are ready for delivery to your home for drinking.
Only when the wine is removed into what is called free circulation, will the excise duty, which is approximately £18.50 for a dozen bottle case, and the VAT @ 17.5% on the purchase price become due for payment. For investment purposes it makes sense to leave the wine In Bond and avoid paying these charges for the present. This has two benefits, firstly there is unequivocal providence with the wine, all serious buyers want this, and secondly, the wine can be sold on in bond to a dealer, broker, merchant or private individual. It is worth noting, when selling at auction; it may be wise to pre-pay the duty and VAT as the auction price will include/exclude VAT at hammer which can have a dramatic effect on your returns, seek advice on each disposal as and when.
It is wise to have your own bond account to maintain control of your investments. Most have temperature control, and full replacement value insurance. The wines are stored under each client’s individual “Protection Plus” account number, fully labelled and can only be released or moved with his or her written instructions. No right of lien can be exercised over wines held on each client’s behalf. Client’s stock can be inspected, by arrangement, at almost at any time excluding November & December.
Annual storage costs are detailed below
STORAGE CHARGES
R. H. & D. COSTS £3.50 PER CASE (1 OFF CHARGE)
IN BOND
1-3 Cases £8.00-£16.00 Per Case of 12 per annum
4+ CASES £7.00-£12.00 C/S PER YEAR
25+ CASES £6.00-£8.00 C/S PER YEAR
All storage charges are subject to VAT @ 17.5%
Tracking your investment
Having decided to invest you will no doubt be keen to keep an eye on the progress of your portfolio. We will be happy to value your wines at regular intervals simply call us or send us an e-mail
How do I liquidate part or all of the investment?
In the future possibly during 2010 we are setting up a client reserves brokerage arm which will specialise in offering out for sale client wines through the web site from which we will charge a 10% handling fee of the sales price. Alternatively wine swaps may be offered, to supplement each individual clients ongoing drinking requirements should this be of interest. There are always more than one valuation of any wine, like any investment, what the buyer wants to pay, and what the seller wants in return. Generally auction prices are a reasonable guide, but certain auctions do far better than others and we can advise fully in this matter. Furthermore, advertised prices of wines stocks are freely available through information web sites e.g. http://www.wine-searcher.com an internet based platform used by wine merchants and private buyers alike. These prices would reflect a truer value of the portfolio than possibly distressed auction prices.
There are other ways to dispose of your fine wines, today there is also consumer to consumer marketplace, these are independent services for individuals offering wines for sale. The storage history (providence) of all wines and in particular older fine wines is of extreme importance. Buyers using this method of purchasing wines should exercise caution and make every effort to check the authenticity, condition and providence of the wines offered for sale. Other services will no doubt be created in the near future.
SIAS calls for land banking to be regulated
May 24
SINGAPORE : The Securities Investors Association (Singapore), or SIAS, has called for strict regulation of land banking investments.
This came after investors filed complaints against British land banking firm Profitable Plots.
They claimed that the firm’s directors were not transparent with their investments.
However, experts said that a regulatory framework for land banking investments would be difficult to enforce.
Profitable Plots is currently under investigation by the Commercial Affairs Department for failing to meet payments to investors.
But investors’ repeated queries to the firm’s directors fell on deaf ears.
Investors received “standard” replies from the firm, such as being unable to answer their queries due to ongoing investigations.
To protect small-time investors, SIAS has recommended regulating land banking investments.
David Gerald, president of Securities investors Association (Singapore), said: “It is an alternative investment, but many investors are depending on higher returns.
“And foreigners, it seems, can just set up a business like this and take money from Singaporeans and others around the region who have great confidence in the Singapore brand name and the fact that we are well regulated and laws are enforced strictly.”
More than 200 complaints were filed against Profitable Plots for amounts totalling more than S$23 million.
SIAS has urged the firm’s directors to hold a dialogue session with investors.
Mr Gerald said some of the investors used their life savings to invest in various Profitable Plots schemes, such as buying interest in land plots in the UK and investing in lubricant businesses.
“We are making this public call – we know what the standard is, and because there are investigations going on, there will not be any possibility of their clients meeting us. … Many of (their) investors are suffering and they are in pain, so they can meet with them and allay their fears,” added Mr Gerald.
Lawyers said buying an interest in an undeveloped land in a foreign country is currently unregulated… just like buying an overseas property.
Mr Chia Kim Huat, a partner at law firm Rajah & Tann, said: “If it is structured as a sale of land interest, then in a sense it is no different from the sale of foreign properties in Singapore.
“These days there are foreign developers selling bungalows and apartments in Singapore. All these are sale of interest in foreign properties, so land banking could be seen as a sale of interest in foreign undeveloped land as well.”
He added: “We also have to bear in mind that in a lot of these cases, the properties are located in foreign jurisdictions, so if the authorities are to regulate the sale of such foreign properties, one has to decide how the regulations can be enforced overseas, because a lot of this activity takes place out of Singapore.
“So there’s probably not much practical value if you have a set of regulations here, but you can’t enforce it overseas.”
Profitable Plots claim that land banking investments can generate returns of up to 12.5 per cent a year.
But both SIAS and law firms remind investors to practice due diligence before investing in any kind of high-risk and high-return assets.
Does anyone know if Profitable Plots have set up a Wine Investment department? It seems that the sales people previously from Profitable Plots is also doing wine investment, selling to their land banking clients
I am here to check with all investors , has anyone has problem getting paid by premium liquid assets on selling your wines?
I have repeated emails , call premium liquid assets office and all my calls were divert to voice mail , and no one respond , even my broker is not answering my calls. My payment has been long due . Is there going to be problems with the company ?
Wine is not a very liquid investment. I tried selling my wines before it took me some time in order to fetch a good price and gotten my cheque
Hi Jason, sounds like you had a good experience as you did manage to sell your wines, which company did you deal with?
in regards to a sound ROI on my 2008, i could not thank PLA enough for providing great and professional service and advice
i achieved amazing returns and my cheuqe was given to me within the time frame promised
Hi Dino , u are lucky. but not many people here now.
mine is 12 weeks due , i have report the case, leave it to the authority now , nothing i can do
Dear all,
Last night I enjoyed a ’95 Mouton Rothschild, ’97 Leoville Las Cases, ’98 Talbot and finished off with Aromes De Pavie, I think it was a 2006 but due to this level of fine Bordeaux consumption I cannot recollect.
Wine is for drinking, it’s far more enjoyable than investing.
no wonder andrew bassett is living the high life in singapore!!!!! It looks like he is scamming every1 and living of the procedes!!!The so called brokers he has working 4 him dnt have a clue.. Their all in it 4 the money and the promises andrew bassett makes!!!!
Investments stocks shares etc all have their ups and downs. All depends if u want to take that chance and part with your money for ever.
i cant get thru to pla ??? singapore and hongkong whats the prob???
I want to point out one thing… UAG, AWM, PLA are ALL Singaporean companies that have gone to the wall and robbed the money from their own people. A startling irony is that they are ALL Singaporeans that run/ran those companies too!!! Majulah indeed!
nevertheless, the constant whining is about AWI. IF you are a client of AWI, YOUR WINES are in Jurong, in a warehouse. If you invested in the other Companies, THOSE WINES are written on a pretty piece of paper and that is it. why don’t you turn that ‘effective’ judgmental mirror upon yourselves and wake up?
The Bordeaux Liquid Gold Co will be the next local-owned to hit the wall… after all, its the same creepy gang of ‘brokers’ that have made a living from AWI, PLA and are now pulling any trick that their tiny little minds can muster to get more money in. How can they survive? I hope that they do not. Maybe they will now spend less time writing spurious, slanderous rubbish on here and their sad, ineffective attempts at cyber-sabotage.
Let’s face it; anyone can type anything they like on here, such as “JP, you’re a green, nipple-squeezing Xanax addict scumbag, and your Director, AL looks like Miss Piggy”. and that’s just how easy it is! This blog is mostly a joke, I can’t be held in the wrong regard for having some fun, can I?
jokes aside though – PLA is gone. who knows if the wines exist – if you are trying to find Eldric Ko, I would start by looking through the classified ads for a midget selling a Maserati well below the market value – I guess he’s long gone already. I wonder if the Premium Wine Fund is still going…
smell the coffee scumbag, your good company Australian wine index have been conning wine investors for years. All thanks to AWI, you have developed great heros that started or move around like parasites to UAG, AWM, Asseton, Vino En Primeur, Bordeaux Liquid Gold, PLA, Profiters, Equity Wine etc.
AWI is the godfather of all wine investment crimes in Singapore. But I do take my hats off Julian and his team of scums, now lets see what Bordeaux Liquid Gold is heading, suggest hand them all
have anyone tried going down to PLA office?
A group of brokers have left PLA since last Friday. Emails are not replied, calls are diverted to voice mailbox. Something is wrong. Is there anyone out that we have their payment overdue from PLA?
I must admit, it does sound a little pro-AWI doesn’t it?!
that’s a very good list of parasites that you rattled off there, Lawrence. How are you such a well-informed chap?
anyway, I reiterate: The proper rip-off Companies were all Singaporean-owned, pleasantly flying under the radar while people were shouting about having their wines – but no buyers – from AWI.
and what were they selling? fresh air, pretty certificates and guaranteed buy backs!
one more time for posterity: singaporeans ripping off (mostly) singaporeans and leaving them holding nothing.
let us conveniently forget this though, and band together to blame the evil ang moh! genius
Ha! Smell the coffee, indeed you are a very humourous ang moh, brilliant write up! Enjoy yr kopi as what the singaporeans would say! Cheers
Just receive some news that those blokes in pla HK office was not paid a single cent when the boss of pla abscond with the money. Defaulted in paying his clients and not buying the 2008 vintages, damn the money must be good if I could do the same for the 2010 vintage!
thanks Lawrence! I wish I was as funny as some of the comedians who have posted on here. I actually prefer kopi beng.
what isn’t funny though is the hundreds of people in SG & HK who have lost a lot of money to the PLA Ponzi Professionals. that is an utter disgrace and I do hope they find those responsible and lock them up for a long, long time
Help I am a customer affected by PLA now. I bought the 2008 portfolio and now can’t locate anyone!
Is there any advise that i can get from lawyer. Who do i go now?
Any similar clients out there to share infor and form a grou with me?
PLA is closing down already. All calls and email not answered. staffs been laid off. and no one at front desk.
hi matthew yup i just went down to pla office in taka this afternoon.
no one at the front counter. knock on the side door no one opened and cant hear any noise inside. most prob everyone has left the office already and run for cover. i also bot into the 2008 which i liquidated 3 months back but yet to receive the money. i suggest we make a police report. u can contact me at my email: wongwong.79@hotmail.com
I assume only pla hongkong is affected since the director is not to be found. But then again if hk cannot deliver the 2008 vintage I guess spore is also affected. I believe there are many such companies out there that cannot deliver the 2008 as prices have escalated, till date there are still many buyers who have yet to receive their first growths in London and US, either there are late deliveries or that there is another pla hongkong out there
Hi all, i “Invested” with PLA and now the money is probably all gone. Brokers are Axel Dinesen (SG) and Andrew Cheung (HK).
hi guys,
when i din get the payment from them after the promised 2 months the excuse i got from them for the delay in payment in early may was
“It has come to my attention that your order of the 2008 En Primeurs was delayed due to a consolidation of goods in Bordeaux. We had expected the goods to arrive in JF Hillebrand (Beaune) in early May. Please accept my apologies on behalf of Premium Liquid Assets group of companies and let me assure you that our company has a favorable record of delivering by the date we specify for the last 6 years in business. ”
its just so happened that the PLA HK director started to go missing around this time. anyway now we know either it was bullshit or a whole pack of lies so much for their integrity or morals if they have any. all brokers now hiding like tortoises in their shell. no balls to face us investors. anyway i’m prepared to lose everything i put in if can get any recourse then its definitely a bonus. for those investors keen to meet up and see what is our next course of action you may contact me at wongwong.79@hotmail.com
I am a ex broker from pla. It was consensus when you invested. Jobs are now lost because we believed in the same company and products. Equally victims, don’t see why you have the rights to call laid off staffs tortises.
So what if you name the brokers? Is it not clear to you that it was the management and not the sales staff?
When you made money, did you then sing praises of your brokers?
What you expect brokers to do, after losing their jobs? Sit outside office to meet you? Say sorry to you because the director cannot be found?
It is not even final that you are losing your money for good.
Hi All,
I went to the police already to file a report already. Commercial Crime Div will take over. I suggest all parties to do so and don’t wait because the investigation will need as much infor as possible to look into the case. The more reports the investigation officer gets, the better he will understand the seriousness of the case and look into it.
For a responsible and legit company, the managment will be in the frontline to address the investors and respond to queries to assure them. Perhaps even set up a customer team to respond.
Now is a clear case of fraud to me and all the staff and even management are running. I won’t expect any turn around for the better. We don’t even have anyone to tell us what is happening in future since they all left!
Furious Investor which is the police officer or investigating officer in charge? I am an investor from the spore office, I have made money from them for trading out 2006 wines, I am now awaiting for the 2008 news which either there is a delay or the wines will not arrive in the warehouse. I have email the company customer service department and have got answers from them, at least the spore office is not avoiding me, only the hong kong office is having problems, did you buy from hk? If that is the case you better try find out who is the investigating officer there
hi,
yup the sg office customer service is still replying emails. but that alone is insufficient as the answers they giving pretty standard and it could take months for the investigation to take place.
The situation seems to be that the hk director christopher koo absconded with the money in apr/may just exactly when most of us are cashing out our 2008s. i’m sure those who did so was because pla informed us that we could cash out directly based on the current offer price at a lower brokerage fee of 10%.
the thing that i’m questioning is whether the hk director manage to find the buyer for the 2008s and pocketed all the sales proceeds which was meant for us. the wines sold by s’pore investors could have been bought over by HK investors who are the ones affected. so the hk director could have taken the money and ran away but this we will not know until investigations are concluded.
if not, another question is whether our money was used to invest in the wines in the first place. if it is, then the wines should be stored at JF Hillebrand in Bordeaux. i will try to contact JF to check with them if the wines are really there. If we can still locate the wines, then there’s still a chance of getting our money if we can sell them thru other brokers. but just don’t count it yet. i think if we can even get our initial capital back its already a bonus.
also we’re not sure whether pla ceo eldric ko is involved anot. is he still locatable or contactable? could it be that he masterminded the whole thing with christopher koo. i’m not accusing anyone but just making an aussumption. if anyone knows more details, pls feedback the rest here. in the meantime, i’ll wait and see over the wkend for any more news b4 deciding whether to make a police report on Monday.
Hi All, This is the 1st time ever I am participating into a discussion but when there is so much money involved and so much lack of honesty from a bunch of people, I cannot stay mute.
I think all we all know is that HK CEO Christopher Koo is missing in action. We also know that PLA Singapore’s office is not responding on the phone, and that one of us (see chat above) went to their office but it looked empty (ie with no one inside). Personally I am still in touch with my broker who still works for PLA and still answers his phone. I have written to Customer Service who has set an Auto-Reply (Wong said above that ‘customer service is still replying emails’ but I can say with 99.9% certainty that it is an auto-generated email, as my previous broker forwarded me an exact same email); I am also still in touch with a former PLA broker who confirmed that Eldric Ko and Jeffrey Chia are existing persons (as I had read that someone suggested these people didn’t even exist !). So I think we shouldn’t be too paranoiac right now, we are in a one-off situation with one person missing for the moment, and we cannot assume for sure the whole PLA is a scam. So let’s have a tiny bit of hope, without being too optimistic though. I currently live abroad (I left Singapore in April) and I wrote an email to the Police in Singapore and explained the whole situation in a vey detailed manner. If you all remember, you should have, on your Tax Invoice, the Bank Details of PLA. I have provided this info to the Police so, if it’s not too late, at least this account can be frozen by the Police. We all need to be strong and grouped here, the more we are to complain to the Police, the higher hopes we can have (albeit smalls). The Police needs to have as much info as possible: who you are, how much you are claiming, Please contact me francoiscase@gmail.com if you want to exchange more. Good luck all. Let’s continue exchanging and stay united.
Can the CAD check on Bordeaux Liquid Gold Pte Ltd? After the sales people left PLA last year, Julian and his team set up BLG and sold many investors 2009 En Primeurs at very low prices, if today PLA can fail to deliver the 2008, come next year the news will be at BLG, PLEASE! CAD or CASE do something about it or regulate it or ransack the company! Many victims will come with Bordeaux Liquid Gold failure next year!
I am one of the victims and can anyone tell me the most up-dated news about the police investation? I bought the wine from the agent “Andrew Cheung” for 6 cases of 2008 and 1 case of 82 which now causes more than 1 million…..Just want to find that son of the bitch and put him in jail forever or make him pay for his sins….Anyone want to come out and discuss this case? Send me mail: shinglungchau@yahoo.com.hk
How can we warn the rest and tell them beware of Premium Liquid Assets or simply put their names on site to warn people in the world?
If you have been let down the company just keep blogging here mentioning the name PREMIUM LIQUID ASSETS anyone searching should find this blog
so i guess that PREMIUM LIQUID ASSETS and AWI are the same firm???? Does that mean jermey kasler or andrew bassett are the owners??? I take it thats its not a very good idea to be investing money in them companies????
What about those investors that invested with Premium Liquid Assets but that had not liquidated their wines?
Anyone know how can we claim or get ownership of our wines now that PLA has suspended operations?
My friends & I had liquided some of our 2008s and have also not received the monies owing…
Planning to make a police report next Mon if still no news from PLA.
My broker, Charles Tan, had answered his phone when I called but his replies were cryptic and non-committal…
Anyone that would like to discuss this can email me at: ga_tgp@hotmail.com
Hi all, an update on PLA from a HK investor;
Having called JF Hillebrand in France it appears there is only a very small inventory held by them for “PLA Singapore Pte Ltd” (the exact details were not shared but the HK police have already been in contact).
Their advice; matching that of earlier posts; is go to Wan Chai police station and file a report with all the necessary details.
The next steps are not yet clear; but I would really like to hear people’s opinions on the following (a) spend money on legal action or (b) write it off and be thankful I didn’t expand my portfolio?
It seems that premium HK is using premium SG stocks to sell to clients base in HK ?!!
I am still awaitig news of my 2008 wines, just receive an email from pla company, media can email them at info@premiumliquidassets.com.sg for the latest updates on the HK police investigation.
I bought a lot of 09′s from PLA in singapore late last year. I am more upset by the fact that nobody at PLA – when I can get someone – can answer anything. whether my wines were paid for, what I actually own or anything. HK is obviously in a much worse position.
with this in mind:
HOW IS PREMIUM LIQUID ASSETS MALAYSIA ALLOWED TO CONTINUE “TRADING”??
They are connected. if the wines are fictional in SG & HK, then what the hell are Malaysia office selling???
I would be grateful if anyone could advise what is the equivalent department to CAD in Singapore for Malaysia – I will notify them of this scandal and ask them to address it.
I’ve been to the PLA office twice but never gave them a cent. The broker (Addy Ang) seemed like a nice fellow but his boss was too much of a lobang. I’m in the anti-fraud and anti moneylaundering business so if I smell a duck and I hear a duck I’m pretty sure there’s a duck nearby. Sadly my feelings seem to be correct.
For Hong Kong “investors” please contact the Commercial Crime Bureau of Hong Kong Police Force; Tel: 2860 4819
Arrange a time to meet; prepare copies of all the documents / invoices you have recevied so they can collate all the details relating to PLA.
They did confim; the wine inventory is minimal apparently, i.e. a few cases with JF Hillebrank in France; registered under PLA Singapore.
Also Interpol are investigating now; but the bad news I’m afraid; the directors are gone; the money is gone (out of HK) and the wine is gone (almost)…
was hoping for some better feedback – thanks tsurumi!
I have posted also on the Today Newspaper article:
http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC110617-0000416/Wine-investors-see-red
and well done to the blogger Singapura, you smug duck-smeller.
do you think people want to hear how smart you are?
Go and “Majulah” off a cliff, you clown
eldric ko is really a bastard, getting his stepdad into this big issue,wonder how his stepdad family going to look at his mum, his mother must be feeling like shit.
wonder how these people going to face their relative. their parent must be sad.
i can say bye bye to my money, anyway big or small amount , we are i high chance say bye bye.
My investment is with singapore premium liquid assets. It seems like they did not order my wines for the 2005 vintage and 2006 vintage . What can I do ? Your advise will me much appreciate. Thanks
I made a police report. You should too.
Hi yang
Which police station ? Is it confirmed that premium liquid assets boss has run away ?
I don’t want to go to police and say wrong things.
Anyway today is father’s day , I want to wish all a happy father’s day . Although we are unhappy with our investment with premium liquid assets, at least we still celebrate this day today with our dad and with family.
If it is true and confirmed that the boss of premium liquid assets has run away with our investment , I feel sorry for his dad .
Have a great day.
Hi Pamela, you can make a report at any police station. I do not know whether the boss had run away, but they were uncontactable and I was not able to extract from them any satisfactory explanation. With the article from TODAY, I think it casts serious doubts on whether the company can make good their commitments. There are definitely grounds for the police and CAD to investigate.
Hi all, FYI, I’ve just made a police report at NPC. After taking down the details, they called their IO and the case was immediately referred to CAD.
Do go ahead to make the report with all supporting documents.
alvin lim is in prison for drug possession…call the singapore prison department..
this new guy edward is guaranteeing 100% return on investment from an auction in shanghai in march 2011?…hahahaha…what was the name of the wine investment company in SG that guaranteed a buy out in 2009?…then closed their doors and left with all the investors $$$ in 2010
AWI will 100% be shutting its doors in march 2011 and running away with all that $$$ if edward is guaranteeing 100% return…
how can he guarantee 100% return to clients that haven’t been able to get a negative 50% on wines they bought 7 years ago?
Christie’s, Sotheby, Llyods have NEVER heard of AWI…never will because AWI will never sell ANY wine for ANY client…why u ask – AWI DOES NOT MAKE ANY PROFIT WHEN A CLIENT SELLS…and that is why NO CLIENT has, or ever will sell!!
Sure, some clients have been told their wine was “sold” and received some money back, but their wine was not sold…awi just bought the wine back and sold it to other clients!
in sept of this year, andrew basset hired an american who studied accounting in university…within two weeks of starting at the company, andrew basset showed this new hire the awi accounting books and asked him to “fix” the numbers to make awi look better…
I cannot wait until this company is SHUT DOWN!!!!!!!!!
….. thers another web site called a palatable investment.. Its all up to date regarding awi
WINE INVESTMENTS, is it still the “best kept” secret, or simply an accident waiting to happen?
There are without doubt so many companies around the World, selling wine as an investment, all too often quoting superb performance ratios of mainly big Bordeaux Chateau over the past 5-40 years. It has to be said that the wines quoted have performed extremely well and indeed wine investments have generally easily outperformed most other traditional types of investment, but the market is narrow, mostly Red Bordeaux wines, top marc Champagne, Rhone and Italian and in particular a few top Tuscan wines.
The city has recently been suffering very badly from poor performance ratios in all areas, including PEPs, ISAs, Pensions, Stocks, Shares et al, and now property is falling also certainly confidence in these more traditional areas seems to be at an all time low.
Wine as an alternative investment.
Fine Wines can be a safe haven for investors in difficult times, anticipated growth in wine futures look good, even today with a worldwide recession, over the past 30 years most companies suggest 15-20% growth, tax free! With annualised growth of 1000-2500% and more over the period of 15-25 years equating to 14-18% compound interest. But these figures are mostly based on the top 10 Bordeaux Chateau and a few top Champagnes on opening prices of the great vintages only. Buyer beware holds true of buying investment wines as with any other investment.
True, there are no capital gains when a wine has a life expectancy of less than 50 years, as it attains a Chattel Status, taking it outside of the capital gains ruling when re-sold. There is great kudos in owning great wines or a decent cellar and if your finances make a dramatic upturn over the next decade, then you can enjoy the wines, safe in the knowledge that they were purchased for a much lower figure than then current market values.
What makes Fine Wine increase in value?
Investing in fine wines has been around for centuries, often hoarded by collectors and connoisseurs alike. Those with good knowledge, as I used to do, would purchase twice as much of a particular wine than they required for themselves, selling off highly profitable mature stocks down the line to replenish their cellars with newer vintages, more often with the side benefit of having all of their own drinking wines paid for out of these profits following 5-10 years of investing. Over the past couple of decades, fine wine has garnered a much wider audience, becoming part of a lifestyle along the lines of fine art, for any of the rich and famous, and maintaining a cellar of fine wines has increasingly been regarded as a necessary accoutrement of success. The massive increase in home underground cellars being installed throughout the Country is testament to the increased demand of fine wines.
The world has recently found a new phenomenon, wine speculation; which is fuelled by so much consumer information from the plethora of wine journalists, led by Robert Parker and his team. This American gentleman has had a seriously profound effect in the marketplace with the simplified 100 point system he devised back in 1980. Previously all wine was sold on the Chateaux’s reputation and vintage alone, not on the intrinsic value of the wine, this simplified system has had dramatic effect on firstly the American markets and is now commonplace throughout the world. Prices are set according to his ratings, with the main Bordeaux Chateaux benefiting financially. Demand for these highly rated wines has risen dramatically and will continue to do so over the long term now with the Asian markets demanding all of the top wines. It seems the Far East has recently become known as the WILD WEST of fine wine, and a strong possibility exists that the fine wine market which has been slowly moving from London to the US over the past decade will suddenly head south to Hong Kong now that they have abolished the 40% import duties. Russia has been strong recently and Brazil is getting in on the action as is India with so many mega rich individuals in these countries being created. So demand for the top wines will continue to increase over the long term.
Due to the 1855 classification of Bordeaux wineries, supply is limited by the geographic area of the chateaux. They have been at full capacity for more than a century already; in fact over the past couple of decades production is actually reducing as each individual Chateau strives to increase and improve quality by reducing yields, seeking the higher Parker scores and the accompanying high status, following demand and of course higher selling prices.
Ultimately prices will continue to escalate over the long term, however during the past six or seven years the main Bordeaux Chateaux have looked to ascertain what the market will bear based on the Parker scores and set their prices accordingly. Over the past few years we have seen prices of en-primeur Bordeaux wines being offered out at levels higher than older 100 point rated wines currently selling for in bottle. The en-primeur wine still isn’t finished, and so much can go wrong, not to mention the fact that in the main, Parker Scores generally decrease rather than increase and subsequent re-sale values follow accordingly.
Where then and how do I invest in wine?
As with any investment, the quality of the advice you are given is paramount. What, where and when to buy, these together with careful and cost effective management of your portfolio will make the difference between a reasonable or very satisfying return on your money.
Work with people who have expertise in the field, there are some traditional UK wine merchants with a wealth of experience, however most of these buy from the same wineries every year, regardless of vintage variation, so be aware, that they all have wines to sell every year in order to maintain their allocations. It is also worth noting, the better wines with higher ratings do not need to be sold, buyers and brokers clamber for their allocations early on, so you need to be quite aware of the market movements. There are a plethora of Brokers, some extremely successful, these are specialist people or companies who will buy as much of a top rated wine from other merchants and mark them up, sometimes by a huge margins. For the most part, when dealing with brokers, you have already missed the boat, or at least the first big uplift.
Another possibility for many would be one of the fairly new Wine Funds which have sprung up over the past five years or so, these have good bond facilities and auditors, but there are some searching questions which need to be asked about these funds, one is, there are management charges to the funds and these range from 2.5% to 20% per annum! Next is where are the wines held, often they are in multiple countries and it is difficult to verify these holdings. Finally whilst wine remains a wasting asset, and therefore capital gains free, the fund is a financial vehicle and as such subject to normal taxes. Quite how these vehicles will perform over the long term is an unknown, but given the above, it is not a vehicle I would tend to invest my money into.
Alternatively find somebody in whom you can trust, a merchant who has your interest at heart as well as their own future. Reliable and trustworthy people are out there working to retain your ongoing business for the future, and these are the people you should seek out. Purchase from these and hold the wines in your own name, in your own bond account, if selling these companies fail; you may well lose your investment in full.
What should I buy? How much should I invest? How long will it take?
We recommend a minimum investment of £5000 per annum is a realistic sum to achieve a balanced portfolio; this would be over and above your normal drinking wines. Wine investment is not generally a short-term venture, five to ten years is the average period that we normally recommend you hold onto your investment wines. What to buy for investment is fairly straightforward, the best wines from the best vintages and the best producers at the lowest prices, preferably first offer prices.
A balanced portfolio covers a cross section of different wine regions and countries, spreading the potential risk and rewards. As mentioned earlier, Bordeaux has been the main driver for investment wines historically, and some older top flight wines still look reasonable when compared to more recent vintages and in particular 2005 Bordeaux price levels, but providence is paramount. In particular first growth wines from 1982 and 1996 are still priced below newer vintages, particularly the 2000 and 2005 vintages. Burgundy, has not proved to be a great investment overall, save for a tiny handful of the very best, e.g. DRC and Lalou Bize Leroy, but opening prices of these wines are often astronomical due to high demand. Rhone is generally sound, again when finding the best of the best. We see Rhone wines as offering good long term uplift potential.
Where else, to look? Champagne is a good safe bet when buying the from the best producers, Cristal is the top name, but I personally cannot understand why, perhaps it’s the clear bottle that sets it apart, Krug is in our opinion a far better range, and Dom Perignon virtually always does well, the 1996 released in 2005 @ £650 a case was selling for £1,800 by 2008, and the 1996 Drappier Carte d’Or is potentially a blinding bet for the future, we released this in late 2006 at £330, price now £450, but older vintages also with 96 points are selling for £3,000 a case! Italian prices are sometimes very high to begin and see smaller uplifts in selling prices, with a few exciting exceptions, but Spain is beginning to flourish with a host of producers totally committed to quality making great wines for reasonable prices. Another Country, Australia is leading the field with a host of super premium wines at very realistic prices. Robert Parker has now come to fully appreciate the range of World Class wines being produced there; some extraordinary buys are becoming available. Most of these top end wines are made in miniscule quantities, driving investment values ever higher. On the downside, there are many European collectors who mock these wines as being too rich, thick, alcoholic and flamboyant and yet when they are matched blind against the best of Bordeaux, they are equal too and often surpass these much more expensive European wines. Uplifts of some of these incredibly powerful and intense Australian wines have been what can only be described as astonishing, sometimes by 200-500% in a matter of months, rather than years.
When to invest?
When to start investing in wine, anytime is generally a good time to start, however now we have run into potentially the world’s worse recession, surely this is not the time to start? Actually this is a great time to start, the top wines of 2005 Bordeaux saw massive uplifts over one year, often more than 100% on the opening price, and in certain instances like Ausone 150%, Carruades de Lafite 170% (the second wine of Chateau Lafite) and the most impressive of all, La Mission Haut Brion a massive 220% uplift in less than one year. These prices have to soften given the economic climate as people try to unload some of these stocks raising desperately needed capital, we believe the bottom of the market will come in early 2010 and these wines will hopefully come off by 20% or more by then. This will be a good time to grab hold of these wines, in the interim, opening prices of great wines from other regions produced in 2007 will be coming to the markets during 2009. For example, great wines have been made in 2007 from the Rhone, both Tuscany and Spain had superb conditions and with lower demand for these this year, opportunities will present themselves for individuals to snap up what potentially could become the finest wines made on the planet during this vintage. The recession will not last, sometime we will come out of it and prices will rise again, and if you’re lucky enough to have bagged some of these greatest wines made, then returns will again be stellar over the medium/long term.
There are also the stars of the future, many new wines are being made today and new wineries are being set up at what can only be described as an alarming rate, but a small few will become the major players of the next decade and beyond. Finding these early on can prove to be most lucrative to potential investors, an example of this would be the Super Tuscan, Tua Rita winery and their top label Redigaffi, released in 1997, their 1994 vintage sold at £340.00 per dozen opening price, rated 93 points for the first time by Robert Parker (now Tua Rita is regarded as one of the best wineries of the World) in 2008 a single Double Magnum of this wine sold at auction for £9,000, this gave an uplift over 11 years of approximately 6,600%. In 1997 the Tua Rita winery was virtually unknown. This is unusual but not unheard of, another example could be the 1982 Chateau Lafleur, again in 1983 Pomerol was regarded as the poor neighbour of Bordeaux, the opening price of the 1982 Lafleur in 1983 was £99.00 per case, however in 2008 it was selling for a staggering £28,000 per case! Finding the future stars is the most profitable of all wine investments.
Examples of a balanced Portfolio would include, the usual suspects;
Bordeaux
Bellevue Mondotte, Cheval Blanc, Haut Brion, Lafite Rothschild, Latour, Margaux, Mouton Rothschild, Pavie, Petrus,
2nd tier investment wines. L’Angelus, Ausone, Clinet, Ducru Beaucaillou, Lafleur, Leoville Barton, Leoville las Cases, La Mission Haut Brion, La Mondotte, Montrose, Palmer, Pichon Longueville, Le Tertre Roteboeuf, Troplong Mondot, Trotonoy
Burgundy
DRC, Leroy, Dugat Py, Comtes Lafon, Comte de Vogue
Rhone
Paul Jaboulet Aine, Beaucastle, Henri Bonneau, Chapoutier, J.L. Chave, Yves Cuilleron, Guigal, de la Mordoree, Clos des Papes, Pegau, Rayas, Rene Rostaing, Roger Sabon, Pierre Usseglio
Italy
Bussola, Aldo Conterno, Dal Forno, Gaja, Giacosa, Tua Rita, Le Macchiole, Sassicaia.
Spain
Artadi, Clos Erasmus, Clos Mogador,El Nido, Alvaro Palacios, Pingus, Benjamin Romeo, Vega Sicilia
Australia
Amon Ra, Jim Barry, Clarendon Hills, Greenock Creek, Henschke, Noon, Three Rivers, Torbreck, Yalumba.
New Stars
There are a few wineries coming into public attention and others with as yet nothing is known, the finest we are aware of currently are Duemani the new Super Tuscan owned by Luca DAttoma one of the best Italian winemakers, and yet another with incredible wines in the making, Zyme from the Veneto. This winery is doing some wonderful things and the release of their top wines will not come until 2010, we plan to be there for that. Another winery which I think might be the equal of Lafleur is the tiny Pomerol estate La Violette, again nothing is known of this yet, but look out for this in the future.
Funding
Having agreed on what amount to invest you will be issued with an invoice and on payment, a selection of wines or advance notice of wines allocated to your bond account. We are able to offer various payment options including deferred payment and monthly direct debits, please contact George Ledger for further details.
Storage
We recommend that all investment wines are purchased by you In Bond and stored in a bonded tax warehouse. This is a storage facility which effectively allows the wines to be stored on entering the country from other countries outside the tax system. Wines lying in bond can be sold in bond and transferred from one account to another within the warehouse where they are lying or to an account at another bonded warehouse in the UK or exported, without having to pay the duty and VAT. The duty and VAT will only be due when and if the wines are removed from bond into free circulation (duty paid) at which point they are ready for delivery to your home for drinking.
Only when the wine is removed into what is called free circulation, will the excise duty, which is approximately £18.50 for a dozen bottle case, and the VAT @ 17.5% on the purchase price become due for payment. For investment purposes it makes sense to leave the wine In Bond and avoid paying these charges for the present. This has two benefits, firstly there is unequivocal providence with the wine, all serious buyers want this, and secondly, the wine can be sold on in bond to a dealer, broker, merchant or private individual. It is worth noting, when selling at auction; it may be wise to pre-pay the duty and VAT as the auction price will include/exclude VAT at hammer which can have a dramatic effect on your returns, seek advice on each disposal as and when.
It is wise to have your own bond account to maintain control of your investments. Most have temperature control, and full replacement value insurance. The wines are stored under each client’s individual “Protection Plus” account number, fully labelled and can only be released or moved with his or her written instructions. No right of lien can be exercised over wines held on each client’s behalf. Client’s stock can be inspected, by arrangement, at almost at any time excluding November & December.
Annual storage costs are detailed below
STORAGE CHARGES
R. H. & D. COSTS £3.50 PER CASE (1 OFF CHARGE)
IN BOND
1-3 Cases £8.00-£16.00 Per Case of 12 per annum
4+ CASES £7.00-£12.00 C/S PER YEAR
25+ CASES £6.00-£8.00 C/S PER YEAR
All storage charges are subject to VAT @ 17.5%
Tracking your investment
Having decided to invest you will no doubt be keen to keep an eye on the progress of your portfolio. We will be happy to value your wines at regular intervals simply call us or send us an e-mail
How do I liquidate part or all of the investment?
In the future possibly during 2010 we are setting up a client reserves brokerage arm which will specialise in offering out for sale client wines through the web site from which we will charge a 10% handling fee of the sales price. Alternatively wine swaps may be offered, to supplement each individual clients ongoing drinking requirements should this be of interest. There are always more than one valuation of any wine, like any investment, what the buyer wants to pay, and what the seller wants in return. Generally auction prices are a reasonable guide, but certain auctions do far better than others and we can advise fully in this matter. Furthermore, advertised prices of wines stocks are freely available through information web sites e.g. http://www.wine-searcher.com an internet based platform used by wine merchants and private buyers alike. These prices would reflect a truer value of the portfolio than possibly distressed auction prices.
There are other ways to dispose of your fine wines, today there is also consumer to consumer marketplace, these are independent services for individuals offering wines for sale. The storage history (providence) of all wines and in particular older fine wines is of extreme importance. Buyers using this method of purchasing wines should exercise caution and make every effort to check the authenticity, condition and providence of the wines offered for sale.
Curious about wine investment in Singapore, I asked some of my friends on what they think about wine investments. One friend told me that I should have done that three years ago, when they were first introduced in Singapore, since prices were lower then. This should that there was room for growth in investing in fine wines.
I also emailed Universal Assets Investments to find out more. I had read about how wine investors should focus on the top Bordeaux red wines and not ship them out of the country in order to prevent sub-standard handling and storing. When the sales rep called me, he told me that his company focused on new age wine from Australia, since the growth potential was even higher. They would bring in wines from Australia, and then let the customer inspect them before storing in a specialty warehouse in Singapore. The wines would be insured. Three years later, I could sell the wines for a profit.
Out of the many hundreds or thousands of wines they brought in, only a small number depreciated in value. It was thus very important to find out more about rating system by famous wine critics.
One important aspect to me is the amount of money required for investment. The sales rep told me that small time investors usually invested 20-30k to have a good portfolio of wines. Other investors with deeper pockets started in the range of 100k and more. However, he said he could look into coming up a portfolio for 10k.
One of the investors interviewed in a newspaper was Irene Ang, a local businesswoman and celebrity. She started investing quite some time back and was already reaping the benefits.
The interesting thing about wine investment is if they ever fail to work out, the investor could just open up the wines and drink them up.
I heard some clients of PLA went to the Director home to chase for money , anyone here been ? What is the outcome?
Hi Pamela, are you one of the victim also?
hi KH
yes , mine is 2005 and 2006. Yang has ask me to make police report. I did it yesterday.
Is anyone seeking legal counsel? Is it worth the while? I read that a group of people have already approached a lawyer to explore options.
I spoke to Charles Tan and went to JF Hillebrand Office in HarbourFront and spoke to their Manager.
There is already a group of people here trying to work together to recover our investments, if you would like to join in, please leave your email and shall include you in on the progress and updates.
Cheers
Dear MK :
Pls keep me in the progress updates with JF Hillebrand.
There is 8 people here who invested in PLA.
Rgds,
naomicpk@gmail.com
Hi Pamela, MK, why don’t you drop me at email at seowmojo@yahoo.com
Perhaps we can meet up to discuss further on this. I’ve also got a email reply from Benjamin Curtis. Not sure if you all receive it too but I send him a email this morning, perhaps he is replying to my email. I’ll forward to you all.
Hi PK, I’ll send you a email together with mail to MK, Pamela shorlty once I have their email
I’ve called Sean but the secretary says he is not likely to take up any case, still waiting for his reply to confirm
Hi MK, What did you gather talking to Charles Tan? Are the directors committed to keeping PLA in business?
Hi MK, I am one of the unfortunate investors with PLA. Could you let me know how your discussion went with Charles Tan, Hillebrand. I would be very keen to joing your group, with the help of Naomicpk@gmail.com. Let me know how I can work with you to see if recover some of the monies.
Dear Naomi, the response I got from Charles was in my email sent to the group on 21 June 5:47pm, you were in the mailing list.
So far I have not received any reply from Hillebrand.
Hi MK, please add me to your email list and let me know what I should do to safeguard my investment. Thank you.
santikappp@yahoo.com
Hi, for those who wants to join in, please send me a email at seowmojo@yahoo.com
So far, I’m already in the email loop with a number of them including Yang, MK & Naomi. I’ve got an update from my ex-account manager today. Will update you all via the email loop.
Santi, I will add you in shortly.
Please add me too.
plaszhgoh@gmail.com
Ok…..if anyone suspicion of AWI auction, u check to see if they did any lab reports for the wines they wanna auction in Shanghai. Because according to several merchants who export to China, they told me all the wines needed lab reports and mind u it’s 1 report per label. I bet there’s more than 100 labels AWI wanna auction off. Who’s going to pay for the reports? That’s the reason why many merchants only wanna sell wines to HK and let the HK merchants dealed with transhipment issue.
..
Hi guy,
i’m also a investor at awi. look like in deep shit already. keep me in the loop. can be reach at e’mail k2c_derek@yahoo.com.sg
Hi KH; appreciate if you can add me to the growing list: tsurumihk@gmail.com
Hi all
I guess I am more concern with PLA now . MK can u advise us the discussion with Charles ? KH , so what did the accounts manager of PLA shared with you ?
hi tom by any chance do u work for awi as a broker or a different wine firm???????.As u seem to no alot about how wine is sold. If u do work with a wine company. Why dnt u tell the investers that have been conned. How to get their money back???
Hi Pamela, are you on the mailing list? You can contact Naomi or KH to get on.
To date we have a group of about 30 investors in our group with Legal 21, we will likely be able to take in some more investors keen to join our Class ACtion Group. Pls email naomicpk@gmail.com ASAP before we close the group.
Hi PK, pls add me in the group. I sold a tranche in Mar this year and have yet to receive any payment. Thanks
mike6106@gmail.com
Is the insurance bought with Zurich Insurance of any help ?
Update from HK re: PLA; having reviewed again with the HK police (filed a report previously) the situation is as follows; assets / accounts in HK are frozen 3-4 mil HKD only; director Koo is still missing and only 40 cases of wine in storage in JF Hillebrand in France. Reports are stating about 400 people affected in HK alone with approx 50 mil HKD invested…
Does it mean that the whole PLA only has 40 cases of wines since they start operation in 2005 ?
Did anyone bought from the group of ex brokers from Premium Liquid Assets who left to set up Bordeaux Liquid Gold the 2009 En Primeur. They sold me a case, I am hoping to seek a refund, I do not wish to have the same problem with my wines with Premium
Hi PK , tsurumi , yang
Any new update on premium liquid assets ?
I am worried for the bottled wines which should be in the warehouse.
But tsurumi told me it is left with 40 cases , how true is this ? Can someone verify that ?
Mine is 2005 and 2006 , I have a case of each of the 5 label .
Hi Pamela,
A few of us meet up with Naomi yesterday, I suggest you drop Naomi a email, so that we can also keep you in the email loop.
Cheers
Pamela, Yang, mywine, Booty, Derek, Howie, Dan, Dave , TP, furious investor , mymoney, David, Greg : have u email naomicpk@gmail.com your contact yet ?
rgds,
PK
Hi All,
I am also a PLA victim. do you all have any latest updates?
Appreciate if you all have a group or any form of forum which we can share information on this unfortunate event…
Thanks.
Everybody here reported to the police already?
Guess we should not discuss so much here . The boss of premium liquid assets will definitely be reading here on what we discuss .
We should stay in contact by email .
My email is sheng06@singnet.com.sg, please add me into the mailing list. Thx in advance.
PK
Ok I will email .
Hi i am 1 of the investor with PLA Singapore. Reported to CAD .
Hope to catch them soon and return us our investment. Singapore police is working on it and so is hong kong. With 2 countries police force working on this case , im confident we have a chance to recover our investment soon.
The HK authority will soon get the Interpol involve and will be hunting for them soon. According to the papers published in hong kong, it is the biggest wine scam in HK history.
Lets stay i touch and pray that police catch these crook and recover our money very soon.
HI i am another investor of PLA involved.
Please add me to the email loop.
My email is john@yummylab.com.
Hi I am one of the unfortunate investors with PLA Hongkong and am based at Australia .I had invested in Vintage2006.I have made my complaint against this fraud with Hongkong Police.
This is the email address of the police inspector that has responded to my report:-
sgt-fs-2b-a-div-ccb@police.gov.hk
His name is
MO Hong-kei
at Hongkong.
Please update me with all the emails and possibly if we are together atleast we may recover our monies back.
Regards
Vikas(vikas_chopra99@hotmail.com)
MW
have u check with Zurich Insurance ?
Anyone here has already check and any update ?
Hi Lee KS,
JF Hillebrand sent me a courtesy reply saying that the local branch will get back to me. Thanks for your prompt, I will write to Zurich and let you know. I have the cert for my 06 but not 07. PLA was in the midst of moving to any warehouse facility this year and changing insurers.
MW
Dear aggreived investors :
we are bringing the PLA saga discussion offline. Pls email naomicpk@gmail.com if u wish to be on our mailing list.
Can Guy with email guyfromfaraway@yahoo.com pls identify himself, i have reason to believe u are a genuine investor but i need your real name before i can include u in the mailing list, pls do not take offence as we need to really consolidate the genuine investors so the lawyers can do their work.
I received the below email from my PLA broker , do you guys believed ? any comments ?
PLA is currently under investigations and here’s the update of what I know of PLA’s situation as at this point in time.
One of the directors of PLA – Mr Christopher Koo who is in charged of PLA Hongkong and overall trading for PLA Group, misappropriated
funds and went missing in action. PLA’s main business owner Eldric Ko and PLA’s COO ( Chief Operating Officer ) Jeffrey Chia reported police both in
Hongkong and Singapore. Pending CAD’s investigations on PLA which may take 6 months – all operational activities of PLA is currently being put
on hold till investigations are completed.
I understand from Jeffrey Chia who is currently assisting the CAD officers in the investigations that Eldric Ko is currently in China but remains contactable
to him to assist in the investigations.
MW
any news from Zurich ?
Dear Lee KS :
Pls email me naomicpk@gmail.com would like to give u latest info offline of our gp.
Dear Tom : u are very well read and have a wealth of knowledge on wine. We would certainly heed your expert advice & contacts concerning our wine investments, pls email naomicpk@gmail.com
Keep in touch ! cheerios.
Pamela, Yang, mywine, Booty, Derek, Howie, Dan, Dave , TP, furious investor , mymoney, David, Greg : have u email naomicpk@gmail.com your contact yet ?
rgds,
PK
[...] investment failed (one company is fighting a losing battle to recover monies), new age wine investment failed and even doubts had been cast on landbanking. Just look at the number of people who had been [...]
I am also a victim of the PLA scam. Can you pls add me to any private email chain and meetings you guys are having. Thanks. pcollings@gmail.com
I am a victim as well, having been serviced by Axel Dinesen. My broker has quit PLA – can you add lipjin@gmail.com to any private email chains and actions? I have made a police report in Singapore. Thanks
http://www.acepolls.com/polls/1216274-should-koo-han-jet-eldric-ko-be-place-on-interpols-wanted-list
Hi all,
I am one of the victims too, may you help to add me to the mailing list? Thanks.
alan.montec@gmail.com
Hi all,
I am also one of the victims of PLA scam. Can you pls add me to any private email chain and meetings you guys are having. Thanks! chekyu@yahoo.com.sg
so wats going on now ? i’m confuse on wats going on……
Angry investor :
pls email me at naomicpk@gmail.com ok?
Can Anyone form a forum or a yahoo group. As we can discuss internally without others people comments.
Acai Berry Facts…
New Age Wine Investment in Singapore…
Thanks bro for slapping together this awesome piece of information.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1326741302120&set=a.1313695055972.43748.1638550283&type=1&theater
just click or copy/paste then do the detective work
photo > person > now working for > connection???
take a look through all those pics
PK – aka naomicpk@gmail.com
why do you waste so much time here ah?
a simple search of your email shows you as Naomi Chan who worked for PLA.
what is YOUR STORY?
what did you do, sell invisible wines to friends and family?
this forum crazy meh!
Hi,
I am wondering how do I sell off my enfolds Grange 2001 750ml in Singapore?
Thanks,
Bernard
Hi,
Anyone has dealt with Vino En Primeur before? If so, please share your encouter with them as they have approached me to buy wine. Thanks.
Real good information can be found on website . “That is true wisdom, to know how to alter one’s mind when occasion demands it.” by Terence.
hi i am looking for some wines for export. if you have some wines to sell, kindly email me at barrel449@gmail.com
rick otton boot camp…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Hello All, I am looking for some wines (prefer french fine wines) for export.
If you have wines to sell, kindly email me at wines4wines@gmail.com
Thanks all
singapore company registration…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
This is to inform you that Mr Chang Financial Services is Granting loan facilities to everyone at three percent interest rate per annum. If you are interested in getting a loan from our company, reply this email: mrchangloaninvestment@yahoo.com.sg with the below information:
APPLICATION DETAILS
Your Full Details:
Full Name:
Loan Amount Need:
Loan Duration:
Phone Number:
State:
Monthly Income:
Country:
Regards
Mr Chang Financial Services
space for lease…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Useful information. Lucky me I found your website by accident, and I am surprised why this accident did not happened in advance! I bookmarked it.
???????…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
hi all i’m alvin lim director of AWI you can call me at my office 63278975 ext 16
electric wine opener…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
commissionescape tim bekker…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Hi. Just to check is Saini & Saini PTE LTD a legitimate company which specialises in wine trading. Anyone had any experience with them yet?
Hi all,
Vino En Primeur have called me recently asking me to go to their office to talk about liquidation of my wines which i bought 2 years back . I was inform over the phone that the Hazyblur Shiraz comapany in Australia have close down and now a french company is buying over the wines. Im very uneasy with wine investment. Why i invested? to help a “friend” who was working there.for anyone who really want to invest. Ask what all the others have said ..Do your Homework. Or else ..just keep the money in the bank. there is no need to cause yourself more misery and headache.
Will post again on the outcome after i met with them later this week.
Laptop Screen Replacement…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
buy paintball guns…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Webgabytes…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
3 credit scores…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
autolocksmith…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Hi kempetai,
What is the outcome after you met Vino En Primeur? They have called me 2 months ago asking me to buy some more wines before they talk about liquidation of my wines. Same for AWI, the agent insisted me to my some more wines “to form a portfolio” so that they can sell my wine through auction at Shanghai. Any one can advise what is going on???
occasie auto…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
I am really inspired with your writing skills and also with the structure for your blog. Is this a paid subject or did you customize it yourself? Anyway stay up the excellent quality writing, it’s rare to see a great blog like this one today..
alak…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Kamikaze Drink…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Hot Actress Videos…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
magnum 4d…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Windows and Doors Toronto…
Nice post, windows replacement installation will assure the correct protection for your household….
I am one of the victim, who brought in 2006, 2008 & 2009.
??????????????????…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
The police is investigating . HK and SG, they will get caught no matter where they are.
I heard someone committed suicide because of Koo Han Jet and Eldric Ko. They should be throw into jail. This is very obvious is a similar Madoff case in asia.
Hey this is a good looking blog, is wordpress? Forgive me for the foolish question but if so, what theme is? Thanks!
My company provides legal debt collection services. We have a number of satisfied clients for whom we have recovered monies from Australian Wine Index. If anyone is interested in recovering back the lost monies due to the “ponzi scam, do feel free to contact me at 93514186.
what is reverse mortgage…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
My brother recommended I may like this website. He used to be totally right. This put up truly made my day. You cann’t consider simply how a lot time I had spent for this info! Thank you!
Wonderful web site. Plenty of useful info here. I am sending it to a few friends ans additionally sharing in delicious. And obviously, thank you to your effort!
Hi, I was called up by Bordeaux Liquid Gold from HK, those heartless salesman who have fled from PLA is now in Bordeaux Liquid Gold. Can you get the local Singapore police to search their Singapore office? I had already made an awareness police report in HK. I do not wish others to fall as future victims.
I know and heard of a few sales people names who is the mastermind of all Wine Investment scams, they have left from AWI to PLA to Bordeaux Liquid Gold, please keep a look out for them, Julian Poh, Anna Lim, Eric Tan. The ahthorities need to be made aware of them. They could be using psuedo names to do sales, do a search of their company or photocopy their Identity card for future references.
birdfeeder buy…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Images of ringworm in humans…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
mebel jati jepara…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Hi Mini and Kempetai
I have transferred my wine from AWI to Vino and same thing happens. First they promised that they could sell if I were to swap my Australian wines for 1.5L so that could easily auction off. I spent another $12K and found my self stuck again with more wines this time. Now they called me again and said I have to buy more to sell since there are not many investors who wants to share the portfolio and split the profits. If you two have wines with Vino, maybe we can combine then go to Vino and tell them we’d like to combine. Seems we have to source our own partners to combine as they keep telling you that they can’t find someone who is willing to share.
Hi Daniel I have also been contacted by Saini and Saini. Very mysterious company, they don’t have their own premises but rented a shared office space in Standard Chartered Building and works from there, no mobile numbers etc and the brokers always different people.
windows key store…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Shorten urls service make money…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Hi purplerose,
I don’t have wines with Vino currently because I refused to buy wines from them and hence did not transfer my wines from AWI to them. My wines are stuck with AWI, UAG, PLA and Assetton. UAG and PLA have run away with investors’ money. I am also not able to contact Mohan of Assetton, will Assetton be the next one to run away?
bliss at kovan…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Its like you learn my thoughts! You appear to understand a lot about this, such as you wrote the ebook in it or something. I feel that you can do with some % to drive the message home a little bit, but instead of that, that is great blog. An excellent read. I’ll certainly be back.
Hi Mini can I have your email address?
Can I know anyone with wines at Vino? I’d like to combine my portfolio with them to sell as they kept saying I lack the volume of wine and that I should top up.
the ecigarette…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Giyim Al??veri? Siteleri…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
e-cig…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
amazon buyers guide…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
about anti virus…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
virus…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
pinoy stories…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
gta san andreas cheat codes for pc…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
loans for foreign investors…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
pandora bracelet…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
?????…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Work and Travel USA…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
I always love to visit your website…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
code reduction virgin mobile…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
considering self employment…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Free File Sharing…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
free download ebooks…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Vorspiel frau…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
escort…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
This is very attention-grabbing, You are an excessively skilled blogger. I’ve joined your feed and stay up for in the hunt for extra of your great post. Also, I’ve shared your website in my social networks
Tagalog Love Quotes…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
dotmetal.com.ua…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Commodore US-CD-5100 Garbage Disposer…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Hello there, simply became alert to your weblog through Google, and located that it’s truly informative. I?m gonna be careful for brussels. I will be grateful when you continue this in future. Many people will likely be benefited from your writing. Cheers!
thailand medical tourism…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Pacific Beach Trust Lawyer…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
dublin electrician…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Buy the Safest Diet Pill, with zero side effects. The Nuratrim Weight Loss Pill is Scientifically Proven and made from Natural Ingredients….
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
courier tracking software, courier tracking script, php courier tracking software, php online courier tracking system, courier tracking system…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
thanks men, its really great having good websites like yours. they are just not many of them this days…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
magento commerce templates…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
live in guanghzou…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Kia for sale…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Its like you learn my thoughts! You appear to know a lot approximately this, like you wrote the e book in it or something. I think that you simply can do with some percent to power the message house a bit, however other than that, this is excellent blog. A great read. I’ll definitely be back.
investment project|investment in| investor|invest|how to invest|where to invest|invest in|what to invest in| investors|investing|capital investment|investment capital|business ideas|company investment|investment company| direct investment| investment…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
john fox…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
hacker…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
gamesreviews.multiply.com…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Assured Return Investments…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
dog treat recipes…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
?????????????…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
price gun labels…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
??????????…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
cabo boat rental, cabo yacht charters, cabo fishing…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Nice Focus….
I really like the direction you’ve decided to take this blog….
online gambling ireland…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
hello there and thank you for your info ? I’ve certainly picked up something new from right here. I did on the other hand expertise a few technical issues the use of this site, since I experienced to reload the site a lot of instances prior to I may get it to load properly. I had been brooding about in case your web host is OK? Now not that I am complaining, however slow loading cases instances will sometimes have an effect on your placement in google and can harm your high-quality score if advertising and marketing with Adwords. Well I’m adding this RSS to my e-mail and can look out for a lot extra of your respective exciting content. Make sure you update this again very soon..
barrie ontario real estate homes condos property for sale…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Blogging Center…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
baby bliss flat iron…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Hi Purplerose,
We also receive call from vino to ask us to top the volume in order to go for auction.
May be we could combine the portfolio as you said.
Pls email to me at milkyway_418@yahoo.com.sg
Thanks.
i found your site to be most relevant to the information i have been searching for? there isnt a lot of sites on the net which contain excellent information like yours..
thankyou for providing me with the info..
great site and great info
thanks
cork board map…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Wlsc office supplies essentials…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
skyrim cheats…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
gsvsites.com offers the best possible way to buy gold and silver…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
gardens maintenance Auckland…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
how to jailbreak ps3…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
dedasheveci…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Electronic stores online…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Hello All, I am looking for some wines (prefer french fine wines or burgundys) for export.
If you have wines to sell, kindly email me at wines4wines@gmail.com
Thanks all
Sharing…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Not for free is motto TGIF – ‘Thank God It’s Friday.’ They love the weekends, when they can go do what they really want to do.
And we don’t use a monopoly. We’ve market share. You will find there’s difference.
wow armory…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
sup guys I jus found the best mw3 glitch site http://mw3hackz.info
Learn how to start djing…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Odd news…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Torrents…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
may pc games traillers…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
I applied for details from this site wineinvestment.sg they have some great advise for first time wine investors and from what I have researched they also offer great prices on first growth wines from Bordeaux. Investors can open a portfolio starting at just 5k.
desain kaos…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Tienda donde podras encontrar multiples detalles para regarlarlos a tus amigos, familiares, conocidos, tenemos diversos regalos orientados a oficina, ocio y deporte, belleza, mascotas….
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
part-time na internet…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…
Do you need a loan to start up a business,personal loan, buy a car,house ETC? so apply today for an urgent loan at 3% rate contact us via email lopez.hill01@rediffmail.com for more info.
Thanks.
Lopez Hill
i will make a report to Msia authority i.e SSM based on this page on PLA (M) sdn bhd, which is a scam. If u wanna know where is the off of PLA, here is > Level 13, Centerpoint South Tower, Mid Valley City.The coy is looking for ppl now.
Premium Liquid Assets Sdn Bhd (Co. No. 87770-8k) is the leader in providing wine assets investment, management and brokerage services in Asia Pacific region with local offices in Bordeaux, Singapore, Hong Kong, Shanghai and Malaysia. At Premium Liquid Assets, we strongly believe in cultivating a dedicated team that is full of enthusiasm in a challenging and rewarding environment. To support our business expansion, we are constantly looking for qualified, dynamic and highly motivated individuals to fill the following positions.
click to read…
[...]the time to read or visit the content or sites we have linked to below the[...]…
visit…
[...]while the sites we link to below are completely unrelated to ours, we think they are worth a read, so have a look[...]…
van tai, van tai hang, thfue xe tai, thue xe cho hang, van tai hang hoa, van chuyen,thue xe tai, thfue xe tai, thue xe cau,…
[...]New Age Wine Investment in Singapore[...]…