New Age Wine Investment in Singapore
Curious about wine investment in Singapore, I asked some of my friends on what they think about wine investments. One friend told me that I should have done that three years ago, when they were first introduced in Singapore, since prices were lower then. This should that there was room for growth in investing in fine wines.
I also emailed Universal Assets Investments to find out more. I had read about how wine investors should focus on the top Bordeaux red wines and not ship them out of the country in order to prevent sub-standard handling and storing. When the sales rep called me, he told me that his company focused on new age wine from Australia, since the growth potential was even higher. They would bring in wines from Australia, and then let the customer inspect them before storing in a specialty warehouse in Singapore. The wines would be insured. Three years later, I could sell the wines for a profit.
Out of the many hundreds or thousands of wines they brought in, only a small number depreciated in value. It was thus very important to find out more about rating system by famous wine critics.
One important aspect to me is the amount of money required for investment. The sales rep told me that small time investors usually invested 20-30k to have a good portfolio of wines. Other investors with deeper pockets started in the range of 100k and more. However, he said he could look into coming up a portfolio for 10k.
One of the investors interviewed in a newspaper was Irene Ang, a local businesswoman and celebrity. She started investing quite some time back and was already reaping the benefits.
The interesting thing about wine investment is if they ever fail to work out, the investor could just open up the wines and drink them up. When I’m free, I will go down to the office to try out some of the wines and seriously consider investing in wine.
Sarah Tan- SingaporeProfit.com
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KooL, you are another wine lover… Are you planning for wine bar or with F&B too?
Your friends didn’t give you the wrong advise, you should had started it years back. But my personal thinking, it’s stil not too late to start it… Go for it!
Hi Coldie, nope, I’m not planning to open a wine bar or F&B outlet. I’m just planning to buy the wine solely for investment purpose. I’ll buy the wine in bulk and hope that a few years later they would have appreciated in price.
I am an investor in fine wine from Australia for more than 3 years. I had invested in more than 35k. Since then, I had not sell a single bottle of wine as it all depend on my wine investment house to sell it thru auction. I am still waiitng. They had told me to hold on for another year and they will pay the storage fee for me for free since some of my wine had already exceed the 3 years storage and need to pay for the storage fee again.
Hi Funinvest: Do you think the wine investment house is not selling because the wines are not making good returns yet or they don’t think they can get good buyers for the wine?
So, in your opinion, will you still invest in this if you had a choice?
Hi Funinvest, care to share which company you invested with?
profiters.com
ok. Now we have profiters international inaddition to AWI,AWM and UAG
I guess tats the problem with new age wines. They are not that easy to find buyers. No matter how much growth potential, it’s useless if you can’t sell them away and you will be stuck for many years with the wines.
Yes, I agree. Just found out that many investors are stuck due to lack of buyers.
Whether its struck or not, depend much on what your broker can do. some establish company may have overlook on this point which allow other new growth investment firm to overtake them.
hidee, u have wine in profiters as well? i only started a portfolio with them recently and what i know from one of the broker there is their company is set up just this year 2007.
hidee? are u a broker from some trading firm too?
i just invested on some 2006 en primeur with Profiters International. i did ask for the company profile in ROC document and Insurance Document that i promptly recieved in pdf file thru my mail as i pointed out that they can’t trade off investor wine after 3yrs. i was shock by your comment as i found out that profiters was only less than 1yr old and got a telling off by the broker there? i was so so embarass. is profiters posting a thread to your company?
thanks for your info!!! which made me a fool!!!
i think most imptly is to do proper homework first before entering into any form of investments including wines. looking at the previous posts.. its not important on how long the company operates but rather is your broker doing the job for u.. service still very much counts in this trade.. be it en primeur or aussie wines, please do your homework on the wines your brokers are recommending and at the same time, get him to update you regularly!! in any investments, there are bound to have good and bad investments, likewise, honest and rogue brokers.. for unsold wine in storage, clients could get any brokerage house to sell them off.. you need not go back to the same broker or firm..
hidee dont keep quiet and stare at the comments. bullshit birdhead
ya.. sorry. I invested in another company. and i only have 3k. Im bullshitting and im not birdhead. Im a dickhead.
Hi! I’ve invested in a number of wines myself. I feel the beauty of wine investment is the transparency when it comes to understanding the pontential of such an investment. Unlike anything else out there, its rather direct. One thing to watch out for are of course brokers. Make sure you get one that is able to give you best advise instead of salesmen who are driven only by making commision from the deal ( i know they may be hard to find but they do exsist). I was lucky enough to come across a guide that was quite helpful too. You may find it at www.asiafinewineinvestment.com A unbias look into wine investment.
Hi all, please be civil when you leave comments here. Thanks.
Hi all,
Firstly i’m a wine investment consultant.
Secondly, i feel that wines from different regions are worthy investments but make sure you do your homework. During interactions with clients, i find there are misconceptions impressed upon them. Wine consultants have more intimate knowledge than the avg investor so can provide better advice. Therefore, discernment is key.
Lastly, no doubt wine investment is attractive but please invest carefully.
[…] Wine investment is a popular topic that people search to come to my website. While views on whether to purchase Australian wines as investment are divided, there are a large number of people who drink Australian wine. There are a number of Australian wine clubs in the world, and any wine bottle that bears the insignia of an Australian wine club means that it is top quality wine. Only first class wines are permitted to carry the sign. […]
Hi, I have invested in Australian wine. They are kept in Cougar. Any of you invested in this too? Any of you manage to trade your Australian wine collection?
www.asiafinewineinvestment.com
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I had invested over 10k in aussie wines with uag for more than 2yrs and now when I want to sell it, they are having a hard time to find buyers, this has dragged on for more than 2mths. When they send semi-annual report, they state there that my wine has appreciated 15-18% afte 2yrs but I’m not even sure where they get the info from because they cannot even sell it for that price.
Be careful out there!
to frustrate_wine..
2yrs? u think its enough? i invested on my wines for 3-5 years than i see the returns.. as for yourself that’s too fast you have to be patient good things dont came fast bro.. I believe u you want to see BIG BUCKS its best to leave it up to them. I Believe UAG wont run away la, they have such great repu in Asia.
If you are not risk taker than at the first place you shouldn’t have invest.. Think positively not stupid.
Stay with 1st Growth labels from Bordeaux and invest only in exceptional good vintages. Also, there are too many so call “wine inevestment” firm out there that are more than eager to sell you all sorts of crabby “investment wine” but they fall short of delivering what they promise when it comes to selling it.
Stay away from Aussie wines. They are great wines to drink, collect and own but from an investkment perspective, forget it. Look up Christie’s and Sotheby’s auction website and you will notice they hardly ever auction new world wines. Most of it are old world wines.
The one single most important thing to consider when invetsing in fine wine is how much can you sell your wine for and how long does it take for the selling process to complete. There’s no use if you have paper gains of 1000% but you cannot find a buyer.
Remember, you are investing for a profit. If you want to drink, go buy the wines from a wine merchant. They have plenty of good wines for sale at very affordable price.
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Hi wine lovers, I guess many of you have more to share regarding this topic than I do. If you have sold your Australian wine, what sort of returns do you get?
Australine wines are fabulous wines to drink as they are really affordable and easy onthe palate, especially for new comers.
But as an investment, forget it. Only a few French and Italian labels are worthy as an investment.
hi, do you guys think that higher points = higher profits? while these wines might have the potential, does it necessary mean they’ll fetch higher price? I’ve been approached by profiters.com to invest in 3 crates of Australian wines (2 different types, 94 & 96 points respectively).
in general, should people even invest in Australian wines (no matter how many points they’re awarded)? thanks!
Any of you - wine investors in Singapore - interested to give some comments in my publication to talk about your gains and losses and methods of investing in wines? I am a section editor of an investment weekly based in Singapore. I am keen to hear what you guys have to say about wine investing, which has really picked up over the past three years with locals here.
Just to share; I bought my first case of 2004 Latour back in 05 at $300 per bottle via enprimeur. Sold it last year at $750 and took the proceeds to buy into Mouton 06 en primeur. Prices of my 2 cases of Pavie 05 and 2 mixed cases of “best of bordeaux 05″ have also doubled or tripled. But i am holding them for long-term.
Those interested in sharing their experiences, do email me at kelvin.tan@bizedge.com
Cheers!
Hi Kelvin, may i know which company did u bought ur en primeur from?
Hi.. only recently heard abt fine wine investments.
Anyone knows the reputable companies dealing with Bordeaux and keep their wines in Bordeaux?
So far, only see EWI.
Any comments?
I invested into aussie wine last year. As I have some urgent need fo cash, wanted to sell out and realise it is very illiquid..Broker also told me must hold for few years can then see value. I told him I dun mind selling at cost or even lower..He mentioned he will try and since then, been getting to get hold of him, even calling him on his handphone..
i’m looking for buyers now for all my premium french wines.may i know how can i sell it off as soon as possible.I have a big selection of old vintage bordeaux and some La tache here.i would like to sell it off below retail price.anybody interested pls contact me thru stephen.trang@yahoo.com.
Hi all,
So far, there are some firms that provides wines as investments. Can anyone share their experiences?
1. Premium Liquid Assets (1st Growth French Wines)
2. Equity Wine Investments (Selected Good Vintage French Wines)
3. Australia Wine Index (Australian Wines)
4. Profiters International
5. Asset Wine Management
6. Prestige Wine Pte Ltd (French Wines)
7. Crystal Wines (Wine Merchant)
8. Corndale Consultants (Wine Merchant)
9. Hock Tong Bee (Wine Merchant)
10. Univeral Assets Group (French and Australian Wines)
Any others that I miss?
Hi, I received a call told me I got a free ticket and accomodation to Thailand. The girl told me I can collect it after I join their “Live preview”. I went there, they told me about the wine investment.
The company’s name is ProjectMedia.
I am glad I didn’t join the wine investment immediately…after read your comment. Yup, we gotta invest carefully…
Hope this help. Opps ya, after their “live preview” they told me they have given up all their vouchers and they are going to mail it to me. Don’t know whether is true or not. But I learnt new things.
I think wine investment is nothing more than a ponzi scam,I invested 150,00, dollars worth of french wine a year ago with the promise that it would appreciate over time. Its been a year since I have told my broker to sell it since its a profit now.. this on top of the management fee and a hefty 12% they charged for selling but until now, he cannot confirm that the wine were sold and no idea when I can get back my money… this is nothing more than a scam… I intend to report to the authorities to investigate further… this is another big scam…
hi Aron Loh, may i know which company u brought ur wine from… this information is vital since people are investing in wine.
I had very bad experience with Australian Wine Index. The broker turnover is high. They tend to be very zealous in promoting new wines to me, but when I want to sell, the brokers are extremely hard to reach. Never return phone calls, never answer emails, never follow up even when they promise to do so. I’ve been calling my broker for the past 6 months to try to liquidate. I can understand when I am asked to hold because of market conditions, but I can’t put up with inattentive service and unfulfilled promises.
I’ve had friends who have profitted from Australian Wines, but I guess the service quality of the brokerage is also very important. I’m never returning to AWI after selling this current lot.
I am selling my wine investments too. From the 12% fees, it appears to be the same company that Aron is involved in. Invested a year ago. Signed up to sell 2 months ago but haven’t smelled my money yet. I wonder what delay tactic they’ll use next. Basically the promise of 4-15% returns is a bag of hot air. Granted the index has dropped. Not that I mind getting less. Now even getting the investment out has proven difficult. And they want me to hold longer and invest more. The speed at which they cash my cheques was amazing. When it comes to selling, even my broker cannot be sure whether his boss has sold the lots or not. Such is the industry practice we are dealing with. I have already updated my broker about my reservations and intentions. I’m have been waiting for his updates…since Christmas. Aron, before you report to higher authorities, read the fine print you signed. On the promises of fantastic returns, that’s between you and your broker, not stated in B&W, though I don’t know how useful SMSes are, so keep all of them. The brokers also work on mutual trust and have their reputations to keep, so dragging them through mud is at best, a last resort. I agree that the entire setup is a Ponzi scheme, just like many other investment schemes. Where do you expect them to find money to pay you? As long as I get my money back, it’s fine. On the other hand, if clients don’t make money, I don’t see why the brokers should still get their commission, esp for all the bad advise. The only way we can get around them is through public education. I’m planning to ‘question’ them at their next public forum ie if I don’t get my money back soon.
Hi all, this seems like quite a hot topic. I was wondering if any of you would be able to share your stories about wine investments with me, I’m a journalist with the Straits Times and writing an article on this. If you have anything to get off your chest, or anything to recommend, regarding your experiences with wine investment, please e-mail me at twong@sph.com.sg. Thanks!
Hi All,
I have a bad experience with Universal Assets Group. In last 2 years, they have changed my brokers for a few times. All the brokers are just concerned to sell their wines. The last broker never even call me and update me about my portfolio. The worst thing is that i need to call them several times just to see my own wine (begged them, precisely) !!! They also never send me an update on my wines. What i understand from the warehouse is that they will received list of wines of their customers and they should send it to the customers so we as the customers know how many bottles are in the WH. They also never update the current price of the wines, event though they promised to do that every year!!! Just read their shiny brochure & website. No inssurance certificate sent to me until today. There are once i called my broker to sell one of my wine, but never heard news from him.
I am not sure if this company worth your attention if you are talking about wine investment. Oh yeah, be careful with the “guaranteed” return promised to you too, xx% return in 6 months, 12 months, etc. Who knows how can they “guarantee” your money?
Generally, I am ok with wine investment. The most important thing is that you find a good broker, broker that can update you about your wines, gives you tons of information & advise, whether you buy from them or not, a broker that won’t turn their head when you say “no” to them. Another advise is that, i think we should look more to French wine rather than OZ wine because the demand are really there. Only buy the very very top end wine. If you can buy a superb vintage of those wines and hold it, it should do well in a long run.
Hi Bordeux,
You seem to have a common problem.
Care to leave your email address so we can communicate?
well,
seems like have been hearing bad comments and feedbacks about wine investment companies in singapore…
in many other forums, it seems that almost all investors are facing the same problem… brokers only call them to buy wines, but when investor want to sell their wines, it will always be very very difficult..
is there any good wine investment company where any investor have seen their returns from?? can please do recommend good and reputable wine investment companies for the benefit of serious wine investors..
while, i heard that this company called berry bros is very reputable.. other than that, hmmmm many of them are scams….beware…
Still no sale after 4 months. Agent incommunicado. Wine index is turning around and when economy improves, the returns will come, provided these companies are willing to part with the money in the first place. Like Bordeux said, agent good at selling you wines and promising you the world. However when it comes to you selling, they claim that their boss handles everything and they don’t know anything till their boss updates them ie if they bother to call you. Mind you, this company with branches everywhere, has been touted by every newspaper here and present at several investment fairs. Legal processes can be quite painful and you stand to lose more. If you have the certs, going to another company to sell will set you back more as some claim 20% commissions. Does anyone have any other good ideas on how to deal with these delay strategies and getting their rightful returns? Short of marching down to the office. I will be writing to the boss next.
Hi BMX,
Well guess you are having very bad experience. Well, you invest in French or Australian wines? Do you have the wines in Singapore? Well, like you mention that the company does not give you any guarantee in B&W, so think the chances of that company selling for you will be very less. Well, I do not know if marching down to the office or writing to the boss will help you at all. I also do not know what is best for you. Maybe, you can start to ask around the wine merchants in Singapore whether they are willing to buy your wines.
Well, it would really be beneficial to all investors if anyone of you who encounter bad experience to list down the company name here, at least a hint or indirectly. At the same time, if any of you have good experience, please also list down the really good investment company here to share with serious investors.
Well, I would suggest that all of you do not buy any wines from any company before doing your own research. Do not trust any of the brokers, they are just doing a job with your money. You can research the current and past wine prices from www.winesearcher.com. Do take note that these prices are retail prices, so your wines in bond should be at least 10-20% lower than retail price to be considered a good buy.
Dear all,
it seems that AWM has just formed up a new wine investment company named Vino En Primuer. I am not sure if this is true. However, its a very high chance this company is formed by same ppl who form AWM….
previously, a lot of wine scam company in UK and australia are using this same style. After establishing a company for some years and think it cannot carry on anymore, they will form new company dealing with wine investment again with a different name to start all over again….
well, i cant confirm this information is true, but beware of any investment scam or frauds as there are just too many in the market..
Thanks for the insight ‘Wine’.
Apologies for not being able to reveal the company name as I’m looking into some form of recourse. I invested in 1st growth French En Primeur. The wines are kept in France. I have the certs and therefore the liberty to sell them myself. Unfortunately, the current crisis resulted in declining wine prices since Q4 last year. Although they seem to be picking up of late, they will not reach their previous highs over the next few years, unless Chinese buying increases. Already Crystal Wines is selling them at a slight discount. If your strategy is long term, most investments will hold.
What I’m concerned about is why the delay in sales even after the sales contract has been signed. There is no fine print to gurantee the sale. I wanted to bail out early due to the decline and didn’t expect issues like this to happen. If they had sold there and then, I would not have landed in this predicament.
These chaps are always overseas, not in the office, ignoring all your SMSes and calls, taking weeks to fax sales forms, not wanting you to go down to the office to deal with someone else, not updating your account…..etc, etc. Can you deal with all the above ?? Even my insurance and Kim Eng brokers are more responsive and responsible.
Anyway, I will have to hold out long term now (>3-5yr rather than 1yr) and look to give someone else the commission. These brokers will ALWAYS advise you to invest short-term. They will tell you that they need their commission too, even though long term returns are much better.
hi bmx,
1st growths french wines are one of the safest wines to invest in. which vintage did you purchase from?? since you said its en primeur, then it should be 2006 or 2007, while i hope urs is the 06 and not the 07, as the 2007 en primeur is really suffering very badly that all merchants in the world are having a hard time selling their stocks.
2ndly, what is the price you purchase from the company then?? u bought them last year?? hope that you have got ur wines at a reasonable price, because after all the markups from the merchants until this company , plus their operation costs for directors, and brokers commission, i dunno how much is ur wines really worth.
well, you must remember that crystals wine are selling at retailer price, and the exact value of ur wines should be at least 10-20% lower than retailer price.
im glad to hear you have all the certs under ur name. since ur wines are stored in bordeaux, have you check the reputation of the merchant or warehouse that is holding on to your wines in france?? this is very important, as even with all the certs you have, you will still get back nothing if the merchants or warehouse close down.
well, seem like ur broker or company is not giving u any after sales service at all… i believe their main priority is just in selling wines and making sales, after that they dun care about long term service at all…. seems like all wine investment company i heard in singapore are the same… yours is french wine, so should be premium or equity right.. currently, these two companies have better reputation then the remaining few which do aussie wines as well, so hope that your wines are really in good hands..
haha, you really believe these brokers only get their commission after they sell the wines for you???? will you work in such a sales job where you only get commission after 3-5 years???? ask them for their salary slip and u will be surprise some are getting commission of 1k to 10k every week. ask around any of your friends who went interview for wine broker job and u will know the truth..
anyway, no matter urs is 05, or 06 , i believe you have to hold your wines for minimum of 5-10 years before they matures and ppl start drinking them and stocks become lesser for your wine value to increase more rapidly… the bull run for wines which started in early 2000s has stopped temporarily cos of the recession. it will take a while before the market for wine gets better.. if urs is 07, i can only say good luck.. chances are low…again depending on how much you buy in the first place…
I had invested in Aust wine index, Profiters international and Equity Wine. I have not yet liquidate my wine portfolio but recently i requested for a valuation report and i find it is easier to get valuation on my stocks or Insurance ILP investment than wine investment portfolios. I really hope this sort of investment is not a ponzi scam like what happen at madoff in USA.
Anyone of you guys and ladies investors liquidated ur wine investment during this period. Care to share your experience?
To be fair among the 3 companies, i got the fastest reply from equity wine and my wine manager was professional and prompt in his reply
hi prime,
nice to hear your experience… just wondering why did you invest with so many companies???????
anyway, there is a high chance most of these sg companies are just like ponzi, well i explain a bit here in case many investors dunno what is ponzi, means now they ask u invest 10k, one year later, they sell ur portfolio to another investor for 12k, and they take their commission of maybe 10%, then after 2nd year sell that same portfolio for maybe 16k, keeping 10% again, and 3rd year sell 20k. so they will carry on to sell the same portfolio again and again until a time when the price of the portfolio is too high and noone wants to buy it.. of cos many investors who dunno the actual value and did not do any research will still continue to buy the portfolio…. ponzi is the most used scheme by scammers and it could last 5 years,10 or even 50-100 years… so be careful of this…..landbanking uses this most often as its very hard for investors to check the real value of their “land” oversea..
well, about liquidation of wine portfolio, out of ten investors, i think only one is able to do so, most likely his portfolio will be sold to future investors… he is also the one where the company will get him to buy more wines after helping him sell this lot, if the company feel you have no potential of being their customer again after helping you to sell, think they will use all sorts of delay tactics mention above.. so what i can advise to investors who wanna sell their wines, try to act like you are just buying small now to test test, and say that once you got the confidence after seeing the first profits, then you will surely buy more wines, say you got 50-100k budget, sell them, dun let them sell you, if u succeed and they really sell ur wines for you, once take the cheque, disappear and never buy from them again, say you suddenly got urgent matters need cash, give some excuse and sorry byebye..hope this tactic works for some of you.. good luck.
well, glad to hear your manager at equity has given you very good service, hard to find good sales service nowadays… but do take note that he can give you the best service in the world, but if he or the company couldnt sell your wines, you still end up with tens of thousands of wines. if they are in sg, at least you can drink them, if they are stored oversea, you may be left with just a piece of paper…
i would really advise all investors to stop investing in anymore wines for now, dun care what the broker or sales person said, they always tell you now is the best time, limited offer, must make decision now, if not no more chance. .. make sure you do all the research first before you invest….
Thanks Wine,
I invested in ‘05-07. Only the 07’s are first tranches.
My broker is still playing the MIA game whenever I sms or call him for updates. I know he has been in this line for a while, jumping from one “reputable” company to another. Are the bosses aware of this or are they all in cahoots?? It is a reputable company with all that bullshit about catering to clients needs.
I’m a little worried that I’ll have to contend with the same obstacles trying to sell my investments during good times as well, after what I’ve experienced the past year??
Does anyone have any viable solutions?? I believe most investors who have written in here just want their money back. Thanks.
well bmx,
really sorry to hear ur broker is playing mia game with you. in fact, there isnt any real “reputable” company in singapore for wine investment as of today… hopefully there will be one in the future.. and even companies dealing with land banking for more than 10-20 years and consider “reputable” may also be just a ponzi scheme..like what prime mention abt madoff, so huge and “reputable” then, and what happen? just a ponzi scam..
hmmm you invested in 05-07?? thats 3 vintages.. 05 is one of the best vintage in french, so if you got it at a low price, you will have no worries getting other wine merchant to sell for you..
06 is just normal and 07 is another normal vintage, but the value of 06 and 07 en primuer is too high, which have cost lots of problems with wine merchants around the world trying to sell off their 07 stocks…now as the 08 en primuer campaign is around the corner, and most likely the value of 08 will be much lower than 07, and 08 produce better quality wines, thus your 07 is overvalued and not as good quality then the cheaper 08.
thus, unless you wait 10-30 years later, i dun think you can sell your 07 so easily… so future investors pls take note to only invest in best and outstanding vintages like 05,03 or 00 and other older vintages for the safest bet.. any other normal vintage will be more riskier and probably a longer term investment..
well bmx, have you visited their office? how long have you invested with them?? since your wines are so young, i dun think they can sell for you also… so ask urself what do you really want from ur broker right now??? what is the valuation report your broker told you about ur wines?? did they say they will be able to sell ur wines today???
anyone else having problems with Universal Assets Group’s “guarantee” buyback scheme?? Bordeux, u and i seem to have the same problem as well…. the only thing is i went straigth to their CEO and he also plays the cat and mouse game very well…. with regards to the buyback scheme, UAG was supposed to buy back the wines from me at 10% profit at the begining of feb, it was only after i prompted them in mid feb what happened, they sent me the sales proceed form to sign, on it, “promising?” me that i will get my money back within 30 days. 30 days came and went, and still no sound no picture from UAG, bugged my agent who subsequently gave me the CEO’s no and i contacted him. was promised that the money was ready and my agent will “deliver” it to me by 1st wk of apr. thereafter, the cat and mouse game began. finally managed to “hunt” down the CEO and gave him a deadline to sort out these issues. in the middle of all these mess, my broker resigned!!!! talk abt coincidence?!?!?
anyway, hope to rally investors who are in the same situation with me from UAG to “demand” that they see to their promises… anyone out there???
Concern - I have similiar concern with that company for breach of contract regarding the payment. I have lodge a police case and the person in charge said they cannot begin investigation against the company unless there are more than 1 report.
wow.. seem interesting and serious case…
well, good luck to all uag investors and hopefully more complaints will come and investigation will proceed..
and then we will cheers to the first casualty of wine investment firm in sg….UAG gonna be the first?????
then we see who else will follow and who will remain..
Leoster: this is my email add: adrian.awyong@gmail.com
email me and we will discuss further in details what further actions we can take
If there are more people affected by this default of payment, please do leave a message. It’s more efficient for us to pool our resources together. Thanks
well good luck to both of you leoster and concern.. hope you guys will succeed and help more ppl in sg be more wary of these companies..
leoster
breach of contract you can also carry out civil suit or report to CASE. im not sure if police will be helpful in this matter. But it is yr rights as the company has not honor the agreement as you have stated in yr description.
In my opinon, as long as there is tangible goods such as physical wines on hand,it is not so much a ponzi scheme like WINE has mentioned. Ponzi is usually on non tangible products like structure financial-linked products. Or u may called it a money-game.
Our HDB flats are churned n churned in the marketplace as well but it is buying n selling of a real product.I have made $ selling my CCK flat but loss $ selling Bedok one and I cant complain to police that it is a Ponzi scheme bcos the fact is prices react according to market factors. If you have a case of Lafite or Petrus 1982, bought 20 yrs ago n sell now, u will not say that u make money thru Ponzi but purely thru investment. It works likewise for properties, stocks or arts. I believe land banking works the same way. In Singapore if u ‘land bank’ Orchard Road 30 years ago, Punggol 15 years ago, u will be a multi millionaire today. Just like there is a diff between a legimate MLM company like Amway as compared to the ‘famous’ Sunshine Empire. Not everything is a Ponzi scheme.
I buy wines, some i keep some i sell; i buy watches, some i keep some i sell; some make, some loss, thats investment or trading. As long you have good knowledge in wines like WINE, u will know what yr broker present to you and be able to make the right judgement n decision. However I do not agree that only 1st growth french is a good bet as there r many good labels that can be a gd buy or investment, if you want to put it that way. Even 2nd wine Carruades de lafite 2004 that i bought in 2005 can make $$ when i bought it in en primeur and sold it in 2008. Investment needs knowledge but there is no guarantee.
Blessed.
akela
great post.. you are right in a way that wine and land is a tangible product and may not be ponzi.. however many fraud companies are using the ponzi style to make money.. what i mean is they get the product, eg wine at $50 per bottle from a merchant, so they markup the price and sell at maybe $100 per bottle, cos they need to earn some profits for their directors, staffs, operation cost and brokers commission, after a year, the value of the wine may increase to $120, or remain at $100 or drop to $80, but to attract more investors, they may sell this wine to a 2nd batch of investors at $140 per bottle, so first investor make profit of ard $30, after minus commission, so will be tempted to buy more wines… now after another year, the same wine is sold to 3rd investor at $180, then one year later to 4th investor at $250, then a year later 5th investor at $300 per bottle…… so no matter the market is doing well or bad, they will make it seem like the investor is making profit…. the 5th investor who bought at $300 per bottle may be buying at too high a price… so in the end, he could be making a loss if the real value of the wine is actually only $200 per bottle….many investors do not know the actual value of the wine and may be buying wines at retail or higher than retail value, of cos this scheme would not work on investor who know the wine market well.. so after 10-20 years, the same lot of wines could be sold from investor to investor for many times, and there will be a time where almost all investors are buying wines at too high a value and thus could not sold them…
well, the above is just an example.. and it has been used by many wine fraud company in australia, uk and landbanking as well… and what happen in the end is the company will close down.. the investor will be lucky if he have the wines under his name and can drink them, many are stuck with a piece of paper saying they own these wines when the wines are actually not under their name, or the physical stocks are not there at all, as they thought they are stored in uk warehouse or somewhere….
land is worse, with a big piece of land owned by 100 or more investors, which part belong to who??? and what are the investor going to do with this land when the company close down… its even harder to really find out the value of uk or us land, so the land they bought may be 10 times lower in value than what they paid for… thus ponzi for land is even easier as the company determine their own value of the land to sell to investors…
thus, i will never never never go into land banking, and will only deal with reputable merchants for wine investment after doing my own thorough research and not trust the salespeople..
i have heard stories of ppl buying aussie wine for $500 per bottle, when this wine is retailing at $200-$500 per bottle… how is these investors who bought this wine going to sell?????? well, only well is to sell to another naive investor at $600 per bottle.
well, for hdb flats or singapore properties, at least you are able to find out the actual value quite easily, though there a case last year when a property agent purposely undervalued a property for his seller.. think that property is valued at 900k, his boss wife bought from his seller at 600-700k?? and then sell to another buyer at 900k earning 200-300k easily… so in end, the seller found out and sue the agent and his boss for fraud..
you are right, 1st growths are not the best, many other wines have proven to give investors much higher returns than the 1st growths…well knowledge is very important.. what i mean is 1st growths are the safest bet due to their track records and brand..
well, you are right knowledge is very important, and you need to buy the right wines at the right time at a low price and sell at the right time at a high price….
well the above is just my opinion, correct me if im wrong.. as its really good for more to share and more of us can learn…
thanks akela for your info..
As with everything else in the investment world, someone will be left carrying the baby when the music stops.
Definitely there are black sheeps in the mkt abusing good instrutments into frauding tools (wines, arts, land, oil, ostrich farming, pyramid MLM, Madoff etc). Sunshine Empire is an excellent local eg. In fact, LEOSTER & CONCERN case do sounds like one as an investment should not have guarantee returns, especially when it comes to a tangible trading product which is unlike warrant or bonds.
Everyone in biz is looking at making profit. So it is only right for a company to bring in a product or service and to cover the operation cost, comms and profit. This applies to all business from wanton mee to Rolex to hair dresser. Nothing wrong with that. A wine investment brokerage house provide a one stop service to buy, ship, store, exit for clients. Not everyone is as well informed like WINE. Commoners like me, have no contact with negociants in France hence relying on service provider. Just like getting a property agent to sell my flat, i pay a commission. Nothing to brag about. Biz makes the world go round if not there will be recession everyday. Before CNY I went to dental clinic with my boy and both of us spent $480 for checking, scaling and 1 refill for me. Over-price? Im not sure but cant call the dentist Ponzi for sure. If not willing to let ppl make $$$ out of you, do it yrself. Simple. My neutral personal opinion, no offence to anyone.
If the Australian label is Penfolds Grange or Hill of Grace, then it could fetch $500. I doubt a bt of Jacob’s Creek (without prejudice) can do such wonder. Hence it is important that customers need to have some understanding & knowledge before investing, as well as the ethical selling practice from the brokerage is also important. The fraud by the property agency was despicable and they have paid the price for the crime. Not worth it. Also the exit for wines should not be just churning from one clients to another clients for collection n investment only. Bcos it is a consumable product unlike watches n antiques/arts, it should be traded into the open market including distribution channel. I have managed to sell off my Grange to the marketplace n not to another investor.
I bought or invested in some wines as well, such as 1999 Lafite n Mouton. Not a fantastic vintage but I bought them bcos my son was born in 1999. I will keep them n probably drink it on his wedding day, haha. The price has relatively gone up from my buying price, so even if I were to sell it, it will be profitable. Others labels includes Pavie 2000, Lafite 2003, 2005, Cos d estournel 2003, Penfolds Grange2000,2001,2002 which probably I will keep them for profit. Hence u can see my so call investment perspective is different. And I bought these wines through local & overseas wine investment/brokerage companies and but at sensible buying price.
Buy the right thing at the right time at a low price and sell at the right time at a high price is ideal investment theory but not everytime u will get it right. I have suffered 70% losses in unit trust…sianz. In investment there is always RISK. Invest when only u can take that risk and measure it with the returns. If you can accept it, then go for it if not keep money in fixed deposit n enjoy 2% interest or like my grandma, keep in Milo tin.
Blessed.
akela
well, i am not against any company marking up the price to make profits.. but the markup must be resonable.. if you think its ok for company to bring in product to make money, i now go buy penfolds from merchant at $400 and i sell u $800, u ok to let me earn the money??? a wine investment firm provide one stop service to buy , ship, store and exit?? yes, of cos there is such reputable company around… maybe 1 out of 10… most company is a one stop service to buy,ship,store and NO EXIT for the clients… and
nothing wrong with that??? just like any biz from wanton mee to rolex to hairdresser???
penfolds grange avg retail price since 1999 vintage is ard $400-$500, and retail price means including all the GST, Duty taxes, custom permit clearance etc, (these taxes ranges widely in diff parts of the world) … so you buy at $500 in bond, you may need a long period of maybe at least 5-10 years to gain back the capital…so if you got ur penfolds 2000, 2001, 2002 at $500 each and u saying its good value??? u must be kidding me… if you got the 1998 penfolds grange at $500 now, then that is really a good value.. however penfolds grange is a really good wine, so investors who buy at retail value to start will have no worry making profits in the long long term…maybe similar to fixed deposit if the company is still ard to sell the wines..
so, from what you mention, it seems like you have been successful in selling off your wines and earning profits, and you are able to buy wines from local and oversea firms at sensible buying price..
how abt sharing with all the investors here which company u invest with… and how do u sell of ur wines.. now the major concern for all these investors is they cant sell their wines, why dun buy you buy from these investors and get their wines at a “fantastic value” while letting the company earn their commission and that is only right for any company in biz..
so its now a win win win situation, investors here can sell their wines at profits, their companies can earn the commission and lastly , you will get more wines at “excellent value”
WINE, im stating a biz in general perspective, tat an operation needs to cover its op cost to keep the biz substainable. All biz ppl do make make up whether it is a $3 noodle, $8000 watch or $20 haircut. If a company is not able to provide a satisfactory service to clients eventaully it will run out of biz, be it a wine investment company or wanton mee stall.
If u buy a Grange 99 at $400 i wont buy from u at $800. bcos i know there is no such price. It is similiar when come to buy watches, I will not pay for a steel rolex datejust w/o diamonds for $18000. It does not justify. Hence knowing info and having knowledge like you is important. Like u have mentioned, to buy 1998 Grange at $500 now is a gd buy. I mentioned the fact that IF THE LABELS r Grange or Hill of Grace then it is at the $500 price range. I did not say that i bought all the Grange at $500 value or all Grange should be purcahsed at $500. I bought them at $300+ to $400 few years back not now. I sold my case 2002 Grange at $520. I bought Lafite 2003 at $700 a bt thru a local wine merchant who sells en primeur. In a situation that a investor has bought Grange 99 at $800 and that will be a bad situation. And you are suggesting that I should buy from them at a ‘fantastic value’ and sell it at a profit for them? I dun run a Ponzi firm.
Im writing in this forum as an exchange of views and opinions. I am not a big time investor neither a refine wine connoisseur. I only buy bcos of interest and drinking purpose. If i can make $$ out of it, good why not. Otherwise i can drink it. As u can see i even buy 1999 which is nt a good vintage but it is for sentimental values. People buys things when they feel that it suits their needs. I bought 1999 mouton bcos my son was born in 1999 and my Chinese horoscope is sheep and the Mouton 1999 label is a sheep.
Overall, ppl will need to be careful and have info n knowledge before any investment or even a simple purchase such as a watch or electronic item (sim lim square!!!)
Blessed.
akela,
thank you for sharing. well, i do understand that all biz need to cover its op cost to sustain, its just how the method they go about doing it. lots of shrewd business person are making use of naive investors or ppls money to earn quick money. the big donations scam few years ago or many other companies which i do not know are using lots of scheme just to make profits for themselves. it is ok for wanton mee store or watch store to close down cos of poor service, at least the consumer already eaten the mee or buy the watch for own use, not with the mindset of able to sell the mee or watch for profits.
if wine investment or landbanking firm close down, thousands of investors are stucks with thousands of wines and many others are stuck with just a piece of paper stating they own these land or wines which are oversea.
so what is happening is many investors are stuck with wines they bought at too high a value initially, and the company who got them to buy are playing MIA game, not selling or Exiting for them. Do you have any advices for these investors?
it good to know that you have got all ur penfolds or other wines are really good value from reputable merchants. the issue now is many investors do not know which company is really trustworthy..are u able to recommend some?
anyway, scheme from mlm, timeshare, wine, land, email scam, work at home scam and etc etc etc has been happening for many many years, with new ideas coming up which is pretty similar… they always attract with the concept of “getting rich quick” but why is still so many ppl still willing to spend their hard earn money on these schemes???
so overall , like you mentioned, ppl need to be careful and have info n knowledge before any investment..
thanks for sharing.. at least u are one of the few who managed to really benefit from wines either for interest or investment..
WINE, very gd points. I hope more ppl will read about what you said and think before they get into those ‘GET RICH QUICK” concept or scheme and usually it is a scam. Always do yr homework, be it shares, wines, arts, property or whatever. When someone came up to tell me OILPOD & Sunshine Empire (SE) lucrative returns, I find them too unrealistic. If USA land has oil, why wouldnt US government take it n use it domestically hence no need to buy from middle east and sell it to us to make $$$; if SE project is so lucrative, GIC will buy over n invest with state $$$ n if James Phang is really ‘better than W Buffet’ he would have be appointed to be Temasek Holdings CEO n not charged in court.
PPL are too impatient and wants instant gratification when comes to investment or biz. Hence many ppl are caught in those scams. the GREED for money is the root of all evil.
As for LEOSTER & CONCERN, I sincerely advise you to take action if there is no payout by the company. Report it to CPIB n CAD. Work together and take collective effort against the company. Ironically i did buy Grange from UAG at gd price $380 like i ve mentioned.
For those who bought wines at high price initially, there is nothing much u can do. Learn the lesson well. Take it as school fees. When u buy AIG stocks at US$50 what can u do now? Army jargon - LL. For wines, either drink it for pleasure or arrange with the brokerage firm or any agency to sell it at market price. CUT LOSS like shares. Bobian.
As for those who have so-call wines in foreign land, ask for documents from the brokerage firm to prove the existence. Like in SIN, other than those duty paid and in my wine fridge, I have them in bonded warehouse like XII Degrees undr hock tong bee where they give an iventory report. If not, like WINE said, your wines r gone with them, when they r gone. If they cant produce documents, report to cpib n CAD.
Alternative investment such as wines r relatively new to many. But the fact is, it is a gd tool and can make $$$. Just like stocks n shares, we make n we loss as well. So never think that by buying wines, it SURE GUARANTEE SUMPA make $$$ as promised by unprofessional representatives. In any industries, representatives just need to be professional. Like the insurance industry in the early years, ah mao ah kow also can sell insurance. Now it is more professional. However it takes time for this transformation. It took past 30 years for ppl to accept insurance and during this time, there are many bad sheeps as well.
I have read in previous forum that contributors are complaining hi turnover of wine brokers. So is insurance agents n property agents. We have to understand that these group of ppl are earning commission n not basic pay. It is a tough job. Once they are not able to substain the income, they are forced to look for a new job to earn $. Only if the company can provide better training, better structure n train up proficient professional individaul for the job, i am sure the turnover rate will not be hi.
In Europe, ppl are not skeptical to watch or wine investment, timeshare (which is a great success there but not in ASIA). But in SIN telling one person Domaine Romaniee Conti or Harry Winston toubillion, perpetual calendar, flyback chronograph mechanism, people will stare point blank at you….Society is evolving, lifestyle is changing but we are not there yet. Watches, Wines, Arts, Antiques, even JINLONGYU arowana all can make money as well when u do it the right way. NOT CAN OR NOT, is YOU KNOW HOW OR NOT.
For those who have bad experience, take appropriate action to rectify it. Learn from this and gain more knowledge n experience. I have loss badly in shares as well but now I have learned how to invest in shares and not PLAY shares. It is not the end. Bear in mind investment in any tools needs knoweldge, info and not always making money. It can loss as well.
Blessed
Thanks for the informative exchange.
Just want to give some background on my case. I have some friends who did wine investment with the same company and they have not experience any problems. Since I was new to wine investment the broker suggested this ‘buy-back’ scheme to me stating they have already found investors to take over the stock in a few years time and they were using this scheme to encourage newbies to try out. I felt that it was safe since it’s a reputable company and there is limited risk - unless the company files for bankruptcy.
After I “sold” the wine back to them and did not receive payment after 2 months of chasing, I have to protect myself by making a police report. As mine was the first case against the company, the police can only consider it as a civil case of breach of contract. Hence I took it to MAS and SMC. Thanks to Concern, I got hold of the CEO’s number and managed to get a promise of action from him within next week. I hope that I will finally see the returns that were promised and end this unpleasant saga. If not, I’ll take it further to CASE and the media to bring awareness to the wider population. Keep fingers crossed.
Never ever just listen to what’s been pitch to you by salepeople. You owe it to yourself to learn and educate yourself on any investment product before you put your money in it.
Most of these companies has high turnover because they are just leveraging on the salespeople personal relationship with their exisiting friends, relatives and clients from previous job.
At some point in time, once they have exhausted their pool of contacts, they cannot sell anymore, hence the high turnover.
A good investment product should be able to stand on it own merits. People come to you to buy because they have done their research and they know it’s feasible.
There is a difference between a used car salesman and a high end luxury car salesman. One has to hard sell his product while the other choose his clients.
well leoster i wish you the best of luck..
thank you akela and greed for the good info as well..
i feel that wine investment is still a good alternative compared to other investments.. what is most important i guess is to check the back ground and credibility of any wine investment firm before committing..
many investment firms were set up just for the sake of selling wines investment.. are they really good and knowledgeable in wines and do they really have many many contacts and network with the wine industry all over the world???? or they are just making use of this concept to make good money??
company like berry bros was set up not just for wine investment, they are reputable in all aspects in the wine industry, from selling wines to drink, wholesale of wines to f&b, storage facilities and so on.. this is one good example of a real reputable company with a wide network.. cos in the end, you need these wide networks to source for buyers for your wines..
while regarding the comment abt hard selling or choosing clients, i feel that all these are down to the sales tactics from the salesperson..and the bad ones will just focus on selling and never a long term service and relationship..
for any products, you will like it when the salesperson offer u excellent after sales service and will continue to serve u no matter good or bad times, not playing “catching” or “mia” game with you when you need him..
LEOSTER, going to CASE is useless. They only mediate between 2 parties. Civil suit by Letter of Demand will dingdong between their legal adviser n yours and end of the day the lawyers WIN BIG TIME(sounds familiar? Horizon…more powerful than PONZI bcos they r legal). Go to CPIB n CAD. Make it a public prosecution like Sunshine Empire. The CEO can promise you but eventually he may not deliver. We need action to clear up black sheeps and shabby companies to keep a sensible investment tool such as wine a CLEAN n TRANSPARENT investment instrument.
If I were to tell u a bt of wine can make 100% in 4yrs traded in e open mkt (no guarantee but I show you past track records for ref). On the other hand 1year gurantee you 10%, which one would u choose? For investment point of view, most ppl will choose the former bcos it gives u the higher return. But in actual fact, many ppl will select the latter bcos of the word GUARANTEE. THERE IS NO GUARANTEE IN INVESTMENT!!!A bt of Lafite 1982 cost less than S$100 launched in 1985 but today it is S$5500 selling in Cyrstal Wines. 5400% over 24years, 225% a year. But it was NEUTRALIZED with a time frame of 24years, and also being one of the best Lafite vintage in history, and after 24 years there r very few left in the open mkt and is scarce. All these factors contribute to the price of the wine. In 1986 Lafite 1982 was not selling at S$5000! That also explains why I do not expect to exit my wines within a year or 2 to reap high profit. The theory does not works that way. Hold the wines, keep reputable labels, gd vintages, OWC (original wood casing), keep in professional warehouses, and with time I can ASSURE you that your wines will appreciate in value. That is why WINE and me also believe in fine wine investment.
I like the way GREED and WINE comment on sales ppl. I am in biz hence I can apprehend what is good salesmanship, pushing sales with hard selling techniques and servicing clients and finding their needs and sell them what suits them. It boils down to the company vision n culture.
Wine investment being new in SIN will need time to grow and mature. 30years ago if you were to sell insurance, how many ppl will accept you? Not many. But with time, public awareness and education, maturity, ppl will accept the product. At the early stage there will be ppl taking advantage of the ignorance of public, ‘hit the metal while it is hot’ (there are many misrepresentation in insurance in the early days as well), and make quick money out of it. With time all these will change and only the reputed and clean companies will survive like WINE has mentioned BBR Berry Brothers in UK. However you must know that BBR was established in 1698. You are talking about CHING dynasty in China, King James II in England era. They also started small but grow bigger with time and established over these years. ALL GREAT MAN IS BORN BABY. They are nutured into GREAT beings. FYI I bought Torbreck RunRig at slightly above $200 in SIN while BBR is selling more than $300. You pay a higher price flying Singapore Airlines as compared to others. bcos it is PREMIUM. You also need to pay more storing your wines in HKG & in London than in SIN.
All these only state one fact that as a company, you need to have integrity in the biz. No misrepresentation as it will leads to disater. As an investor, you need to do your homework and have an understanding before any commitment.
Blessed.
Akela - CPIB only deals with corruption and I do not have evidence of that. CAD links back to police report which I’ve already done so I can only hope more people log a police case soon for them to start investigations. I’ve tried to search for other forums where this is discussed but couldn’t seem to find any. Please let me know if you guys have any other recommendations. Thanks much!
Leoster, drop me a mail. teamakela@gmail.com. Blessed.
well, leoster.. i think the most important for you now is to get your money back first.. so is to sell them back.. find a sales tactic or something to make them believe you are a potential big investor, and by helping you to sell your first lot, you will buy many more wines from them… give them guarantee blabla, make it urgent blabla, once get money then follow them, play mia game, give excuse, blabla…
i mean now i can only think of this recommendation to you… and your sales skills and negotiation techniques must be exceptional.. try use some art of war by sun tze here haha…
wish you the best of luck..
The company offered to change my wine broker. Should I take up the offer? I am concerned that this one may just be like the others. The broker breached my sales contract and told a couple of lies along the way, ie he didn’t even put my wines up for sale. I am working on how to bring this up to the management. Based on all my records and correspondence, I can discredit this chap thoroughly. How can I use this to my advantage?
well bmx,
now do you choose to believe your broker or do you choose to believe the company?
is the company just pushing responsibility and blaming the broker for not selling your wine or is it the other way round?
do not forget that who has the most power… the company or the broker?? in the army, when there is a cock up anywhere, who is always being blame when its not really his fault?
so in the end, i think most importantly for you is set your priorities clear, is it you just wanna sell your wines now?
if it is, then it doesnt matter how many broker the company change for you.
since you got all the 05-07s wines, how is your portfolio doing for you now? i think 05 should be doing well, and 06 should still be ok, however, do take note that 07 wine will surely drop in prices very soon….view this article http://www.decanter.com/news/news.php?id=281129
so if you can i will suggest you to get rid of all ur wines now before its too late..
again, like my previous suggestion, act like you will invest more in order to sell off your wines, after ur wines is sold, play the mia game with them… till they give up.. then dun invest with just any other company… take ur time dun rush, do ur research slowly..
good luck to you..
Thanks Wine,
I can only hope the overall financial situation would improve after reading the article. Overall, the ‘07 seems to be an early drinker 7-10yrs. My consolation is that inn 7-10yrs, stock will run dry and the prices will go up. The ‘07 stock is about 30% less than most vintages as well. Hopefully the ratings would increase with bottling. How much do you expect the 07 to freefall by ? I’m keeping my ‘06 as those have been bottled and will mature with time.
I think one of the biggest myth about investing in fine wine is that of diminishing supply.
On the surface, it sounds logical that an old vintage cannot be replicated and as it gets consumed over the passing of time, less of it remains thus prices will increase.
What they (the wine investment companies) have downplay is that the production of wines is ever increasing and also, grapevines don’t die of extinction. Every year till the end of time, wines will be produce from all over the world.
With advancement in vinticulture and wine making techniques, the disparity between a good wine and a bad wine is narrowing. Comsumers are spoilt for choices and frankly, with the exception of the few godly wine experts like Robert Parker, Jancis Robinson, James Halliday etc, how many wine drinkers can really distinguish a first growth from a non-rated wine blind?
The producers and merchants are simply hyping up the market with talk about exceptional vinatges every year. Honestly, if you follow and read wine reviews, have you seen them dealre any vintage as lousy? No, they will never do that because they need to sell those wines.
So, they will never be lousy wines, ever. They will be good, very good, very very good, excellent, very excellent, very very excellent, exceptional, super exceptional, etc etc.
bmx
i would really feel you are wrong to think that way…
2005 being one of the best vintage was released at a historic high price.. sadly follow by 2006 release at abt 10% lower than 2005 and 2007 abt 30% lower than 2005, take note that both 2006 and 2007 are just avg good vintage similar to the 2002 and 2004, and prices of 2006 and 2007 is about 100% - 200% more than the 2002 and 2004… these make all the rest of the older vintages look super cheap….
i agree that the stock in 2007 is lesser than most excellent vintage, but thats not a problem… its the demand and supply thing…
now with the 2008 first growths releasing at at least 50% lower than the 2005 and 2006, and looking that quality of the wine in 2008 is quite good and better than the 2007 and 2006, which consumer will want to buy a lower quality wine from 2007 or 2006 at twice the price??????????
now, wine merchants from all over the world are having a hard time selling their 2007 stocks, because no one is willing to buy them, they are just too expensive…..
so what will happen? the price of 2006 and 2007 will definitely drop…. i cant predict by how much, however i will be expecting at least by 20% or more….
with the 07 being so expensive, i can assure you the stocks will never run dry for the next 50-100 years….
even when the financial situation improve, i take the lafite as an example, you as a wine consumer or collector, you have a choice to buy the 2008 lafite, which is a better vintage compare to 2007 and 2006 at $3,500 a case, or the 2007 lafite at $5,550 a case or the 2006 at $7,100 a case… i think the answer is pretty obvious… you will buy the 2008….
only if the next 10 vintages become one of the worst vintages in history, then probably ur 2006 and 2007 will increase in value tremendously, however if the 2009 or 2010 or any near future vintage became comparable to one of the best vintages in bordeaux, they will surely be release at a high price similar to 2005 again… and collector will rush to buy them and again leaving ur 2006 and 2007 unwanted….
so the only way for ppl to buy the 2006 and 2007 is to drop the prices, so good luck to your 2006s and 2007s…
as you have finally got hold of ur broker and company, thats why im suggesting that if they can sell for you, sell immediately and never deal with them again…. research carefully before investing in wines again in future…
well again, the above is just my suggestion, the final decision still lies with you, i could be wrong, maybe your 2007 and 2006 will do better than 2005 or 2008, well “maybe”, so good luck to you…
anyway, i am keen to know what first growths u have and how much your purchase them for??? and how much did ur company value them at now?? cos if you got them at really good value, then probably got some chance….thank you…
you may wanna read this article
http://www.winespectator.com/Wine/Features/0,1197,4481,00.html
Thanks Wine and Greed,
I agree with both of your views and have been trying the salvage the situation for the past 5 months. The ‘07 enprimeur is currently trading at >$100/bottle less than what I paid for. I guess I’ve been screwed pretty much. Currently re-negotiating a sale for the ‘06 and ‘07 but even sales not guranteed. I’m not dealing through my broker now as he doesn’t deserve a single cent from me. In fact I want him to return his previous commissions, as he hadn’t provided anything the past 5 months. I just have this feeling that the only way of ensuring they that sell my ’07s is to transfer the proceeds to a new ‘08 + top-up $$.
Thanks for all the advise. Apologies for not being able to reveal the rogue at the moment.
bmx,
no no no no no , dun do that, they are just selling you more again, never top up $$$$$$$ for the 08s, it is impossible that you have to top up $$$ to buy the 08s when 08s is 20-50% cheaper than the 06s and 07s, dun buy anymore….
never think u have been screwed pretty much, what has happened has happened, what is important is that you have learn many new things now and dun make the same mistakes again…
like i said, the broker may not be providing a good service to you, think for yourself, who train him? do you really think that the company or another broker can do better than ur current broker? they may be worse or more skillful in selling you more wines….
well, i am curious to know how much you paid for your wines, as i am doing my own research which company is providing a better deal..
anyway, if u have paid the best value when you bought your 05s to 07s during en primuer then, your 05s should have gained at least 50%, if you have lafite 05 even better, it has gained at least 80%,
06s should have gained about 20%, 07s lost only abt 5-6%, 07s is currently trading at a low price of abt S$400 a bottle, it cant be just $100 a bottle, impossible,
well the above example are all taken in account that you buy at en primuer price, which is the lowest pre release price, and if all your wines are the first growths…..
so if you sell all your 05-07s now, you are still making profits, even just selling 05-06, you are still making profits, the most sell the 05s, and keep the 06s 07s like what you mentioned earlier,
the most you can keep the 06s 07s for your son’s wedding or what, drink them, you arent losing anything, but if you top up $$$$ and buy more…. then its not just good luck to you, u may need god to help you…
Blessed…
No worries Wine, I am on my toes now. I definitely want out but am concerned that they will rear-end me by not selling the wines, especially if I let loose that I intend to sell everything. I will try and get as much money out first. Unfortunately, only my 07s are 1st tranches, ‘06 mixed 3rd/4th tranches and ‘05 half portfolio n not 1st tranches, therefore no overall profit in view of the massive losses incurred by the 07s. I’m already in paper losses of at least $100-150 per bottle of 07 I own. Thanks for the insight, everyone. Sorry I can’t reveal much of my portfolio here as I’m sure the people involved read this forum too.
bmx
well good to hear that you are being more cautious now, well dun let them feel you want to sell everything, maybe step by step, sell one at a time, say got urgent matter u need cash or something lor, or like what i said before, give them the thought that you wanna buy more and wanna sell first to test the system first…
yah i understand that you cant reveal your portfolio here, how about just reveal any one wine, i just wanna see whether that company is selling at a good value or not…
anyway im also guessing that is the company u bought your wines from although cant confirm haha….
anyway good luck to you
http://investdrinks.org/other.htm
wine growth fund suspends redemption… anyone involved or invested with wine growth fund better check with your fund managers for more details…
bmx,
with so much talk about en primeur but the fact is at the point of release no one will be able to tell what is going to be for next year vintage or the ratings. Usually ppl will only take past records as a reference. Hence that is the risk to take like all investment. Eg in 2004 as compared to 2003, it is an average vintage, hence prices dropped. But come to 2005, excellent vintage price went up. 2006, snowball effect from 2005, price was pretty hi (bcos economy is gd as well) but price is lower than 2005. Come to 2007, another average vintage price is lower than 2006. But the whites n sauterners are good. Come to 2008, bcos of the economy crisis, Brodeaux is forced to lower price if not no biz. But now it is 2009, hence we can review and start speaking n analysing like an expert telling u ??? (would have known). But the fact is there is no ??? (would have known), if everyone would have known, there is no one buy AIG stocks at US$50 or buy Lehman Bros bonds. We are not phrophets.
Buying e primeur there is always a risk bcos the rating of the wines is uncertain. The higher the risk the higher the returns. In 2004, I bought Lafite 2003 en primeur at $700 a bt. I gained. Like everyone WOULD HAVE KNOWN by now, 2007 likely wont make $ not bcos it is poor vintage but affected by the global economy crisis and prices of 08 crashed. With the current economy, almost EVERYTHING price dropped, from shares, funds, watches, property, wines etc. End of last year, the 2005 prices crashed the most as compared to other vintages. Retail price dropped about 20% or more.
Also, it is a myth that we can buy wines at 1st traunch. If everyone is so resourceful to get 1st traunch prices, negociants n fellow distribution channels need not exist. In the biz world as long as u provide a service or a product, u r expected to make money out of it. By the time that u buy a bunch of choysum in the local wet market, it went thru few hands as well. This is how biz work. Be real.
I do agree with GREED that grapevines dont die easily n it can live up to 100 years old. But the fact is grape harvest is affected by weather. Grape harvest has been declining in Aust bcos of weather and despite of whatever advance technique u can come out with it is not going to change GOD. Bad weather means bad harvest, simple. Also the size of the vineyard cant expand as they like like Singapore which we can touch JB soon if we keep reclaiming land. Terroir is crucial. As a wine drinker, i do believe there is a difference in the quality of wine. Try a table wine like Jacob’s Creek Shiraz then try a Fox Creek Reserve Shiraz n then Penfolds Grange, and I am sure u will know which is the better one in general wine tasting terms. You dont need an expert to tell u an OMEGA is better than a Baby G. Wines are produced all over the world but they are not all a Petrus or a Lafite. If all wines have no difference it will be like the Chinese proverb Cow Feeding on Peony, Wasted.
Take WINE advise do not trade in yr 2007 for 2008. If they take in yr 2007, n the whole world knows that it doesnt make $ at this point of time, who will buy from them? And if that is the case why should they buy back from u? There is something amiss and likely u have to top up more $$$. Wine is a lifestyle product. To me it is either for profit or drink so If the qty is not huge, drink it if it doesnt make $. Or cut loss sell it n re invest into something else for investment or for wines buy the 2008 EP, bcos it is so low n in my humble opinion it is worth it.
Lastly, stay out from wine funds.
Blessed.
bmx,
with so much talk about en primeur but the fact is at the point of release no one will be able to tell what is going to be for next year vintage or the ratings. Usually ppl will only take past records as a reference. Hence that is the risk to take like all investment. Eg in 2004 as compared to 2003, it is an average vintage, hence prices dropped. But come to 2005, excellent vintage price went up. 2006, snowball effect from 2005, price was pretty hi (bcos economy is gd as well) but price is lower than 2005. Come to 2007, another average vintage price is lower than 2006. But the whites n sauterners are good. Come to 2008, bcos of the economy crisis, Brodeaux is forced to lower price if not no biz. But now it is 2009, hence we can review and start speaking n analysing like an expert telling u “would have known”. But the fact is there is no “would have known”, if everyone would have known, there is no one buy AIG stocks at US$50 or buy Lehman Bros bonds. We are not phrophets.
Buying e primeur there is always a risk bcos the rating of the wines is uncertain. The higher the risk the higher the returns. In 2004, I bought Lafite 2003 en primeur at $700 a bt. I gained. Like everyone WOULD HAVE KNOWN by now, 2007 likely wont make $ not bcos it is poor vintage but affected by the global economy crisis and prices of 08 crashed. With the current economy, almost EVERYTHING price dropped, from shares, funds, watches, property, wines etc. End of last year, the 2005 prices crashed the most as compared to other vintages. Retail price dropped about 20% or more.
Also, it is a myth that we can buy wines at 1st traunch. If everyone is so resourceful to get 1st traunch prices, negociants n fellow distribution channels need not exist. In the biz world as long as u provide a service or a product, u r expected to make money out of it. By the time that u buy a bunch of choysum in the local wet market, it went thru few hands as well. This is how biz work. Be real.
I do agree with GREED that grapevines dont die easily n it can live up to 100 years old. But the fact is grape harvest is affected by weather. Grape harvest has been declining in Aust bcos of weather and despite of whatever advance technique u can come out with it is not going to change GOD. Bad weather means bad harvest, simple. Also the size of the vineyard cant expand as they like like Singapore which we can touch JB soon if we keep reclaiming land. Terroir is crucial. As a wine drinker, i do believe there is a difference in the quality of wine. Try a table wine like Jacob’s Creek Shiraz then try a Fox Creek Reserve Shiraz n then Penfolds Grange, and I am sure u will know which is the better one in general wine tasting terms. You dont need an expert to tell u an OMEGA is better than a Baby G. Wines are produced all over the world but they are not all a Petrus or a Lafite. If all wines have no difference it will be like the Chinese proverb Cow Feeding on Peony, Wasted.
Take WINE advise do not trade in yr 2007 for 2008. If they take in yr 2007, n the whole world knows that it doesnt make $ at this point of time, who will buy from them? And if that is the case why should they buy back from u? There is something amiss and likely u have to top up more $$$. Wine is a lifestyle product. To me it is either for profit or drink so If the qty is not huge, drink it if it doesnt make $. Or cut loss sell it n re invest into something else for investment or for wines buy the 2008 EP, bcos it is so low n in my humble opinion it is worth it.
Lastly, stay out from wine funds.
Blessed.
well said bmx,
however, in my opinion, i dont think buying 2008 EP is worth it. with the current economy, if you buy the 08 EP now, 3 years later when its being bottled, the price may be just the same, or probably increase just a bit, so its pointless to give free loans to the wine companies for this 3 years now, if you really must buy, wait at least 2 years later and see hows the 08 wines doing, is the regrading better as well, and see hows the economy doing as well….
but still in my opinion, i would advise never buy en primeur for any average vintage, the risk is higher and you are just speculating on what will happen in the future… for en primeurs, only buy those from exceptional vintage like 2000, or 2005… as for average vintage, i would advise you to buy only probably a few years before it fully mature, so more ppl will start drinking them and supply will drop faster…
and again en primeur campaign is higher risk than buying bottled wines, a barrel could be shared between 5 to even 10 investors, if the wine merchant close down, which many have closed down and now even worse, especially those not really established and reputable ones, it will be hard for you to claim back anything….so most important is to deal only with reputable and established companies…
well like bmx said, we are no gods and no body can predict the future, even in the best economy, if theres a major disaster or terrorist attack and world war 3, everything will be back to zero.. so just be prepared for the worst lah, even putting money in the bank is a risk, so accept the risk and move on…
and before buying any wines, check and research, there is winesearcher.com for you, dont pay $1000 for a bottle of wine if you can get $1000 or even less in retail price…
lastly, stay out from wine funds…
WINE, indeed if the intention is to keep 08 vintage as investment, it may not be wise as it is only an average vintage. My approach is not for profit alone but also for drinking pleasure. My intend is to buy some and drink at such low price. hardly u can drink a bt of Mouton for 100+euro.
Wine investment only come into prominence during 2005, when it was so called the “perfect Alot of vultures started circling after 2005, which also coincides with alot of wine investment companies sprouting out.
Wine investment no doubt works, but only on awesome vintages like 82,2005 as such. other than that, mediocre vintages, its only meant for speculative purposes if any. and if wine is such an illiquid commodity, how does 1 speculate?
and the common theory of ” prices of wine does not follow world market trends’ is so highly misleading.
tons of people are trying to sell their prized items, including wine but unable to find solid bidders until they dropped their prize. how do i know? becos i’m working for 1.
Wine investment only come into prominence during 2005, when it was so called the “perfect vintage, the year when God was French.’
Alot of vultures started circling after 2005, which also coincides with alot of wine investment companies sprouting out.
Wine investment no doubt works, but only on awesome vintages like 82,2005 as such. other than that, mediocre vintages, its only meant for speculative purposes if any. and if wine is such an illiquid commodity, how does 1 speculate?
and the common theory of ” prices of wine does not follow world market trends’ is so highly misleading.
tons of people are trying to sell their prized items, including wine but unable to find solid bidders until they dropped their prize. how do i know? becos i’m working for 1.
(edited : missing sentence.)
akela,
sorry the previous post is supposedly written well said akela haha
yah i agree, i would love to get the 08 to drink as well… though its 100+ euros on release, once it reach the merchant will be different price already … average price for 08 lafite is already about S$330 per bottle…
split,
wine investment dun come into promience during 2005, it started many many many many many years back… probabaly you first learn abt it in 2005.. and its true that more wine investment companies are sprouting out.. so investors beware and better research which is the more established and reputable ones..
as for vintages, its extremely important that it must be at least outstanding to extraordinary, anything just average and below will be more risky and not worth investing in unless all leading critics in the world rated it perfect 99 or 100 points..
prices of wines depends on the market in a way.. more or less depend on the rich and millionaires, more millionaires, wine prices rise, recession, less millionaires, ppl rushing to sell the wines, prices drop.. this is in fact a good time for serious collectors to bid for the best wines at a lower price..
wine is not really illiquid, selling the wines in auctions is pretty easy, it is only hard to find the best time to sell them, selling at the wrong time at the wrong place will lose out and have to pay for the consignment fees to the auctions houses also…
so thats why the merchant or broker or the company you invested with is most important, they have to have lots of contacts to help you sell your wines…. which most companies here dont, they are only good at selling wines to investors, and not reselling to collectors or consumers.
hmm you are working for 1, …. and the way you say it , it seems highly possible ur company belongs to the fraud side, probably you can write to jim in investdrinks.org to recommend him to list your company in his site…
and why are u still working there??? to suck more ppls money???
Concern and Leoster any updates on ur case against UAG? My self got into the same problem recently awaiting for a check that never arrives from the same company for a “buy-Back” Scheme….
Hi George,Concern and Leoster,
I’m please to find this website, I’m facing the same problem too.
What should I do? Thanks
TM
Tm, i suggest you email concern at the email indicated above so as we have ur contact details and we form a group to act more efficiently agains that company. Makes sense?
George and TM, please file a police report as well. Some of us have already done so. I’m contactable at leoster7@gmail.com
good luck guys, hopefully we will see the first wine fraud company in singapore being charged, and that will be perfect warning to everyone else..
Like leoster had mentioned everyone who is affected by e UAG scam pls make a police report, lodge a report with CASE or small claims whichever is more convenient for u. The deadlines set by e CEO shd not b trusted as he had not been able to fulfill them. Attempts to contact dominic (CEO) has been unsuccessful. Calling e co is useless as well coz e customer svc would say there is no 1 ava to help u. I know most if not all of u have been posted a letter stating a deadline but as leoster and myself have personally witnessed, those r juz words and it doesn’t mean anything to dominic. He is juz buying time. As George had suggested, I will compile a list of those affected and send them among ourselves. For those who still have some hopesand wish to contact dominic, this is his no 97907094. Gd luck to all of us but pls make those police reports. I have send our stories to ST already but they have not replied. I will email again seeking a response. For those who wish to sue dominic, dun think or wait anymore juz do it
Hi. I have also invested with UAG on the “buy-back” scheme. They have said that they would be returning my investments in Apr, but I have heard nothing. I’m very worried and would appreciate any advise on the matter. My email is andy_annie@hotmail.com.
hi andy&annie,
i think it will be good for you to contact concern and leoster as i believed they have already taken some actions against uag and they are seeking for more people to make it more effective….
help them out and help yourself and help warn anyone else… good luck to both of you…
as i browse through all the comments again, i have compiled a small summary of good and bad companies mentioned:
Good : None
Bad :
1.UAG
2.Australian wine index
3.Unnamed company dealing with bordeaux en primeur.
anyone wishes to add on more to the bad list or like to recommend some to the good list??
hope this helps out anyone thinking of investing in wine and have been contacted by the above companies..
good luck
I do not know how would one classified a good or bad company. It depends on which angle are u looking at the matter.
However the current UAG saga is definitely bad. All affected clients must take strong action against the company who does not deliver esp when it come to the CEO (boss) of the company not responding to the clients and honoring any agreement. By cleaning up black sheep companies will only do good to business sector jus like clearing off Sunshine Empire.
On the contary I had experience with UAG that I bought Grange at $390 which is an excellent price. For that particular incident I cant say that it is a bad company bcos as a client, they met my needs. But when come to this buyback thingy, it flop big time, bcos investment has no guarantee.
AWI is the longest established fine wine investment company in SIN and only sell Aus wines. Like all new ventures or biz concept that is new to consumers, AWI had the adv to sell to many who doesnt know much about wines. Even bubble tea can make good money in the pioneer days. Hence the testimony that I heard was hi selling price and hard selling techniques. Bcos at that time, there is no other peers in the industry. But with new peers coming into the biz, people is turning away from them. I have an aquaintance who holds 4000bts with AWI, all bought at hi price.
“As i browse through all the comments again, i have compiled a small summary” - that ppl do not have info or understanding before investing. Hence they are “burnt”. It applies to all investment tools as well as consumer service (NEWTON CIRCLE giant prawn) or products (Sim Lim Square electronics). All will end up a victim but at diff level of damage.
In terms of value French wines will definietly have better edge than Aus. There are exceptional as well such as Grange, Hill of Grace and some cult labels. Latest Grange 2004 release on 1st May in Penfolds was at A$590 a bt. This price beats Chateau Lafite 2008 en primeur in France. If only u know what ur buying, whether it is for drinking or for collection, it will only be beneficial and adv to you. Robert Parker has just released his ratings and Lafite is at 98-100 pointers and immediately, price of the Lafite en primeur increased. Who says EP cant make money.
For yr reading pleasure i have enclosed a link. You do not need much wisdom but jus common sense to figure what kind of investment are they - http://www.profitablecapital.com/.
Same like foe wine funds, stay away.
Be blessed.
Hi all,
I happened to chance upon this forum and I’ll like to share my experiences with UAG
Had bought a $10k wine portfolio from them in 2007 and encountered the same shit from them in
1. Hard selling sales tactic
2. UAG can’t support the selling “prices” published in their wine company.
3. Un-contactable wine broker.
4. Liquidating the wine portfolio takes ages. For me, it took 6 months to sell the wine back to the UAG at a 5% loss. I considered myself lucky that I’m able to get my money back.
During the course of “selling” my portfolio, I’ve seek several lawyers’ opinion on a civil (I sue UAG myself) or statutory (Government sue UAG) lawsuit against UAG.
The points highlighted by the lawyers are
1. UAG is nothing more than a 7-11 store selling wines to consumer.
2. UAG is not liable for any financial losses (stated in the contract) on any wine portfolio. Any wine buy-back is based entirely on “good-will”
3. No government body (eg MAS) will give a damn about wine investment as wine investment is not regulated. I personally complained to CPIB & my Member of Parliament. The feedback I got was “I walked in with my eyes opened”.
The only choices I have that time are
1. Make this issue as big as possible (like the AWARE case) and let Singapore knows about it, highlighting the fact that MAS is “closing an eye” on this issue. This “should” prompt some actions from the authorities.
2. File a collective lawsuit against UAG. This should generate enough spotlights on UAG and will be extremely harmful to UAG’s reputation. Note: The press should know about this collective lawsuit as well.
I’d communicated my options to UAG at that time and I think they got a bit afraid and hence my money is returned.
Nonetheless, I’ll be happy to help any bros on dealing with UAG collectively.
Please contact me at +65 97956999 (Tony) if you need more views/opinions.
PS: I’m not a lawyer. I’m just an ordinary middle-class working guy who is extremely unhappy with UAG.
There was a land banking company UK PRIME LAND, which is scam company n cheated many investors and was folded last year. Many people including staff reported to the police. My friend is one of the victim. Nothing was reported in the news. However the gd thing is the boss of the company was caught early this year.
Tony seems like another so-call investor who invested in wines in 2007 and sell back probably in 2008 and expected to make profit from that portfolio. Loss a 5% and consider it “lucky to get the $ back”. Wonder what wines did u buy & in a short period of few mths you can expect to make profit? Kindly recommend. Indeed ur lucky to suffer a mere 5% loss unless ur buying gd labels n vintage like WINE always mentioned. Approach any wine “7-11″ like Grand Vin, Cornerstone or Crystal Wines and check if prices of wines can appreciate in such short duration. If a physical product could not trade at a profit there will be no government body or even lawyer can act for you in that instance. It is right to say that “you walk with open eyes”. People like WINE will not be in this circumstance bcos he knows what is he buying. This is a reality that u may not agree but of course u reserved yr rights to be unhappy with the poor service that the company rendered.
However in the current UAG saga, it is not keeping wines for future trading sales but a structured time frame returns. And when it is due, it should be repaid. Since not paid, it is a breach of agreement and clients had the rights to take action against UAG. It stand a much better ground than Tony’s case.
well i dunno if i am right here,
for tony’s case, i think the company which is uag have over promised and under delivered on the wines they sold to him..
which he mentioned, 2. UAG can’t support the selling “prices” published in their wine company.
means the company acutally stated in their report that his wines have make profits in a short period, and yet they cant sell his wines at the “prices stated in the valuation report”, so the so called profits is just on paper…..
probably in the report was stated at 10% or even 20% profits, so when he wanna sell his wines, company headache….
and even though he may be “lucky” to get back his money, i feel that he must have gone through quite a lot of efforts in getting back the money..so his efforts paid off, thus other investors who is having problems now dun give up, and fight all the way, since tony has offered his help to you, dun be shy, call him and ask for help lor… as in how long to get back the money, i would have to say this, wine is a physical asset, its not a paper, not stocks, so you cant expect to sell your wines overnight, the process will take time, even selling through auctions also take months, they have to check provenance, come out with estimates, and have you agree on any fees, shipped over to their designated warehouse, wait for auction, blablabla… so it takes time to sell…
and of cos, the bad thing that i feel is these companies never educate the investors, they will only give fake promises and guarantees by mouth and “paper profits”…only wanna hard sell to investors to buy more wines in order to earn more commission, no after sales service, so when it comes to physical trading and selling of wines, they had problems, cos they got no contacts to sell, unless they can fake another investor to take over the portfolio…..
anyway, i still thanks tony for coming out and share his experience, and hope that the others involved will be able to get some help and get back some money, even at losses, rather than keeping your paper showing a 20% profits… good luck..
yah robert parker releases is interesting, wonder what will happen to his high scoring wines, and again his opinions differ from many other critics haha, even though lafite 08 value jumped overnight, remember that if next year or 2011 parker final rating became lesser than 98-100, the prices may still drop , so if you think you are up to take that risk, and have contacts with a reliable merchant that wont close down in this economic crisis, go ahead and buy some en primeurs, maybe 2 years later i cant find them anywhere else cos parker final ratings is 100, maybe i buy from you haha..
Wow, WINE savvy move. 2yrs later will have to sell u at market price with friendship discount if not ppl will say im ponzi scheme. Sell to u, I also scared.
When the expert speaks, u see the diff. WINE gave us a proper flow of the wine distribution channel operation.
I have checked with my source and found a common aquaintance that TONY & I have that is the broker that sell him the wine is the also the one who sold me Penfolds Grange at $390. The broker is a British gentleman and not the kind of hard selling salesman that TONY projected him. He has since returned to England and studying in Bath Uni. We still MSN ea other as friend. What kind of profit or exit do u expect if ur holding a new wine like Schubert Estate Gooseyard Block Shiraz 2005? It is a true case that ur “lucky” when only suffer 5% loss in this physical bottles trading n not the “buyback plan”.
I fully understand the frustration that current clients of UAG are facing n it does not help when ppl is adding fuel to the fire when the scenario is not the same and still give incorrect info to ’stir’ matter to a new height. Pharisees are the least ppl needed in this situation.
I strongly suggest that ppl involved in this delay payout incident to report to authority and not thru legal means. When more ppl reported and it reaches a threshold, the authority will take action. Was told that UAG CEO posted in his FACEBK about his recent vacation break in Genting, Thailand, China, having gd fun while the staff, brokers of UAG and clients r like ants in hot pan.
Dear Wine Lovers,
I have created a website for you to learn and understand more about wine investment, you will also be able to receive the latest updates on news and articles.
If you are interested in Wine Investment, please visit http://WineInvestment.sg
Thank you so much. Cheers
Jack
I have the same problem with UAG’s mandatory buy back scheme, already emailed my details to Concern. My situation is that the letter states payment will be made in 60 (!!!) working days and they have not acknowledged receipt of the letter, which means the clock has not even started ticking yet. After reading the comments here, I’m not even sure the 60 days will be honoured.
After calling their hotline, the lady insisted that she already acknowledged receipt (not true) and that my expected payment date is 30 June. I’ve just asked her to state that in writing, let’s see what happens…
Dear Darren,
I feel so sorry to hear about your situation, as well as many others involved. I do wish that all of you will be able to settle the issue soon.
Like akela mentioned, many of you end up in this situation mainly because of the lack of knowledge in wine investments. This is the reason why I created this website, WineInvestment.sg to help everyone understand the truth and risks involved in wine investment. Even though it is low risk and less volatile, it is still like all other investments, there is a risk and nothing is Guaranteed.
Please do take your time, visit my website, subscribe to our newsletter so that you can receive all the latest news and articles straight to your email inbox. Thank you so much. Cheers.
Jack
Hi all
I’ve received a sms from one of the bros here and I had shared with him my experiences with UAG. I also shared with him on what are the options available now. As the company I work in offer free legal advice (not legal actions), I am happy to utilize this facility to any bro or group who want to purse legal actions. Personally, I do not know the legal aspect of the wine buy back scheme. Thus I can’t comment much. (What I have with UAG previously is the lousy wine portfolio).
Do let me know if you need some legal advice.
Cheers Tony.
+65 97956999
Hey Concern and Leoster,
Have not been able to contact UAG personnel.
UAG have yet to make any public announcement
in response to this issue.
Any collective action being taken yet?
Pls contact me if there is any grouping up
to take legal action.
I guess individual may have to make police report.
Contact me 93666795, email kwshah2000@yahoo.co.jp
Hi all, now that this is published in ST, it’s getting more attention from investors. If you’ll like to group together to decide what actions to take, please email me at Leoster7@gmail.com. It’ll be helpful to state when was your scheme’s maturity date, when was the “promised” payout, what actions you have taken so far for easier tracking.
paint it yourself and sell the painting
BUG says: If you buy the painting from me today, I will buy it back 12 months(excluding 30 dyas waiting time) and give u 12% interest.
Mr Friend: its been a year, have u seen the picture you owned for the pass 12 months?
Mr A: nope, only seen and hold the recipe, its still in my drawer, the peice of paper i mean. but they offer me to give me more interest next year
TO BE CON’T
Dominic Sim “UAG CEO” cars
1. Mercedes SLK 200
2. BMW 7 Series
3. Maserati Grand Tour
4. Maserati Quattroporte
5. Bentley Continental GT
6. Audi R8
Right now his brothers and UAG ex-brokers set up another wine investment company called D’Venture Wines Pte Ltd located at Far Eastern Bank Building. “Change soup don’t change herbs”.
I found an article on UAG related investment in July 2007. http://www.voy.com/161450/2601.html
Is’ about a Victims of Aztex Int’l. Aztex Int’l is in wine business also. It state that
1. UAG and Aztex share the same office space and address.
2. Aztex staff is advising me to move the investment over to Universal Asset Group (UAG) as Aztex will close VERY SOON.
If D’Venture is set up by UAG CEO’s brother, I am wondering if they are trying to set up one company to plug the hole for the previous company.
I will like to know basically:
1. Does the wine really exist?
2. The brokers said that UAG have to buyback the wine as they have agreement with the other party to sell them the wine. I want to see the agreement they have with the other party.
If the above 2 items are not true, I think maybe it should be a criminal case and CAD or CPIB have to take action. But now we don’t know the truth. Maybe we should just report to CAD or CPIB and let them find out the truth.
The Straits Times article today said that CAD is currently investigating into the complaints.
I also have wine investments under their mandatory buy-back scheme. However mine is only due in August.
Please update me at thewayonlyway@yahoo.com.sg on any progress of this issue.
Thanks.
anyone who invested in the UAG buyback scheme actually saw their own wines, supposedly in the storage facility? pls reply to janellelaufl@gmail.com
Hi Leoster
Heard that you had make a CAD report. May I know the case num? Maybe we just have to go to the police station or CAD to add on to the Case num. As more people add on to the case, CAD will take even more aggressive action.
Contact Insp. Ho (Ban Hsiung HO [HO_Ban_Hsiung@spf.gov.sg]). A number of investors have already contacted him.
Hi all,
I’ve received a couple of calls from a number of people.
I had since creates a yahoo group to facilitate discussion and update on the progress.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sour_UAG_investment
I’ve sent invite to the people who had contacted me. (plus contacts in this thread.)
This might be good for collaboration
Cheers
Tony
Thanks Tony. The current group has a “closed group” in FB - this is by invitation only.
Received a call from D’Venture Wines again. They are trying to sell me more wine. Confirm all of them from Universal Assets Group. Same management, same brokers, same system! Sick of it! now waiting to get back my money from UAG……
Does anybody has the same broker as mine? His name is Anson Goh, his photos still at the UAG website, congratulating those prosperity draw winners.
Just learnt today that he resigned last month. Called him several times but no one pick up.
What professionalism!
What’s the contact number for D’Venture Wines?
Hi leoster,
Sorry, I don’t quite understand this
“The current group has a “closed group” in FB - this is by invitation only.”
Is this a good thing or bad thing?
Cheers
Tony
Tony, we wish to have private discussions since everyone can read whatever is available online. Up to each individual to decide which path/group they wish to take and whether it’s good or bad. Thanks for extending your help.
U sure Andson resigned last month? He was on MC bcos of a medical condition but was still helping me over some matters in UAG last week. Wonder why ppl always gave false info on this forum n fanning this saga to new height.
What professionalism!
Hi everyone,
I am also an investor in UAG’s mandatory buy-back scheme. I have 2 portfolios under them, which will mature in June and August this year respectively.
I have yet to contact the company regarding the selling off of the portfolio issue. However, from what I read, I think it would be tough for me to liquidate my portfolio too.
Therefore, if everyone is grouping together to claim against UAG, I would like to join you guys.
I can be contacted at kurayamisekai@yahoo.co.jp
Thanks~
Hi b,
D’Venture Wines Pte Ltd
156 Cecil Street #11-01, Far Eastern Bank Building,S(069544)
Tel: +65 6222 1639
My uncle also received a call from them. I think they are calling all the UAG client invest into this new wine company… and again same people same management…. haiz…!
Hi alela,
I called the UAG receptionist yesterday after many failed attempted to contact him. The lady again confirmed this morning that Anson Goh has resigned. You can call UAG 68804000 to check.
Guys,
Perhaps you can try your luck. If you can’t find your ex-UAG brokers, try to give D’Venture Wines a call..the one you are looking for might be answering the phone.. nobody know…
Posting from the yahoo grp created by Tony ”
I had just spoken with the CAD investigating officer and had got to know that there will be a meeting with him and other investors tomorrow 14th May at the Cantonment complex at 4pm. The venue for the dialogue at block D 5th floor” Guess we’ll see each other there to see what’s going on
If anyone has any information on the outcome of the discussion, mind sharing it here with other UAG investors? As I believe that some investors might not be able to make it for the meeting.
Thanks leoster
I’ve set the yahoo group to restricted.
Hi all ,
This forum is now set as restricted so that I can safeguard the interest of the people involved.
Please give me a call (+65 97956999) or drop me an email (uag_investor@yahoo.com.sg) with regards to your situation.
I’ll approve your access to this forum after review.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sour_UAG_investment
Cheers
Tony
sorry, i mean the yahoo group is set as restricted.
Cheers
Tony
Tony, your group is still open to the public. I can read every post.
k,
Thanks for highlighting that.
I’ve changed that already
Cheers
Tony
Wow, this is all very scary!
I was thinking of investing in wine myself, it looked like a good investment.
What about the other players? Premium Liquid Assets and Australian wine Index? Does anyone have good/bad experience with them?
Cheers!
Hi Potential_Wine_Investor,
I think in the meantime, try to stay off such alternative investment products until the outcome is more obvious.
That’s just my own opinion though..
Best regards,
Desmond.
I have spoken to the investigating officer and voiced out my concern to him.
If the company is trying to pay out the money to early batches of investors now and run out of capital, the worst case scenario would be that the company declares bankrupt and the later batches of investors would most probably not get anything back in return….
Hi desmond,
Is the case about the buy-back scheme only or isit for all investor UAG tricked into buying and promising to sell it off for them?
And how early is the earlier batches?
I do have to say that these people who tricked us will not be punished if they just declared bankrupt… such cases has happened again and again…
Greetings Rion,
I believe it is more inclined towards investors who purchased the buy-back scheme only. My friend who bought the physical bottles with UAG seems fine because his physical bottles are in the storage cellar. He has called the cellar to confirm this.
To me, i think the earlier batches are those who are currently trying to seek payment from UAG. For me and a few other investors, I guess we belong to the later batches as our portfolios mature between June and August this year. Some might be longer though, but I have no news of that yet as the latest maturity date that I have heard of is in August this year.
Regards,
Desmond.
Hi all,
I really think we should report to police or media separately informing them regarding this case. Also, maybe we should go to speaker’s corner sometime next week? Anybody has any idea how to go about this?
Regards,
Nick
Hi Nick,
NParks govern Speaker’s Corner. You may wish to register the gathering to voice your concerns.
http://www.nparks.gov.sg/cms/index.php?option=com_chronocontact&chronoformname=honglim_park_speakers_corner
You’d probably want to call some reporters to provide news coverage as well. Perhaps Straits Times can follow up on their report. The New Paper and Zao/Wan Bao are also widely read.
now that this matter has finally blown up, i believe the buyback scheme has been proven to be just a ponzi scheme where they use new investors money to pay old investors… when they cant find enough new investors to invest, old investors will not get back their money..
now that the whole singapore knows abt this, i doubt there will ever be anymore new investors coming in, which means all of you affected will not get back any single cents… and this company is going to close down very soon…
wonder if the authorities can help, however still hope that all investors under this company can at least get back a bit of their money, 80%, 60%, 40% back , at least better then 0% right?
anyway, while compiling the list of good and bad companies, this is the latest i have:
good:
pla
equity
bad:
uag(no secret anymore)
awi
awm
and new companies setting up which is related to the above like
vino en primeur
d venture wines….anymore???
hmmm, from this list, it seems like the ‘goods’ are in french wines while the ‘bad’ are in aussie wines…..
anyone care to commment and share your experiences with any of the companies listed above??
are the ‘goods’ really good and are the ‘bads’ really bad???????????
personally, i have no contacts and experiences with any of them, so dunno if this list will help those who is thinking of investing now…
ooohhhh and further googling found 2 more new companies..
premieur wine investments
wine-i
interesting that new companies are setting up in this tough times… any investors already invested???
WINE, gd to see u back. Have been reading alot of sensational n stir up news in this forum lately. Apart from investment news, we have cars news as well. Wonder how ppl keep track with UAG CEO car list. Perhaps next round we can have a list of his girlfriends data as well. Very resourceful, maybe from some intelligence dept.
WINE I is not new. Our ‘helpful’ Wine Expert JACK has been an advisor with WINE I & Rubicon. His website is so “timely’ set up to advise confused investors on more info. Very well planned n prepared in this sensitive time.
Well, I kind of agree with u but not all in labeling companies into GOOD or BAD and only French wines are the best while Aussie wines are all bad. This statement is not justified. Based on what ground or criteria do we have before we classified them? In earlier days, I have got good labels n price from UAG. The broker that i know, Mark Baillie is a fine guy and not what peolple have mislead others that all brokers are ‘bad people’. But seems like uag has ‘turned’ bad in this current saga. I also have people complaining about their encounters with PLA. Perhaps it is the direction n vision of that CEO that leads to this situation. I do not have too much insight info bcos I m not an ISD agent like some of those who contributed in this forum. BBR also offers wine investment and en primeur so are they good or bad?
Wine business is new and has lots of potential and will continue to boom in the market. With one failed company, do u think the industry will cease? Will Cornerstone, Crystal Wines stop selling wines & en primeur and change to sell gems n stones & crystals instead? Of course not. My opinion in this saga is not about wine investment. It is about people’s GREED n IGNORANCE. People invested into so call buyback is bcos of the gain. They ‘believed’ in such scheme also bcos of their ignorance and lack of knowledge in wines. Another eg to illustrate is how people is STUPID (not silly) enough to believe Sunshine Empire will give u >100% returns or UK PRIME LAND can give u 300% returns in
Less than n a year? Wine and its investment are relatively new in Spore. There will be companies who take adv and run business in an undesirable manner. So the only right way is for CONSUMERS to be wise instead of labeling them good n bad. Some good may be bad eventually or in disguise while some bad may learn and turn good. It will take time for a new business to settle in and matures. With time, there will be a BBR in local context.
What I hope to see is to have an amicable solution between UAG and its investors. Even with any delay but as long as investors can get their capital or wines back that is the most important rather than the company vanish and all become a helpless victim.
Regards
So is there anyway current UAG physical wine holder be able to sell their wine through any other sources?
I called up UAG wine storage, 12deg, the fella said that investor will not be able to access their wine without their UAG broker..
But amidst the saga, dun think any broker of UAG dare show face outside without risking being whalloped…
Dear all,
Just beware there is a wolf in SHEEP skin lurking around giving “fantastic advice” on wine investment and wonderful comparison of other investments instrument.
All his advices sound so familiar to me after reading all his postings here. Initially, I have no intention to blow his cover… But I cannot believe he starts to name Ex UAG brokers here to “sell” his point.
Please give Ex UAG brokers a break! They left the company for a reason you know better as YOU ARE UAG Ex AGM!!
I don’t know what is his agenda here giving advices and pretend to be an investor with UAG.
For God sake! He had made hundreds of thousand of dollars from UAG “Buy Back Schemes” last year, and now he is pretending to be a “good” advisor?!?
Why? Feeling guilty? Shameless scumbag!!
Wine - have you experience it yourself? why do you give a list of good and bad if you have not had any experiences?
i just find it a little unfair to any companies when you’ve no real experiences. I understand that UAG got into such bad situation where i count myself lucky that i did not fell into when was approached. like you mentioned i thought pla or equity will be better but who knows … TOLD TO WAIT … doesn’t it sound familiar?
well, i’m not complaining, but not complementing either.
I do agree with akela, we should not label good or bad companies and good or bad french or aussie wines. but i’m really interested, since able to find the list of cars, how about the girlfriends data?? so nice to know, right.
becareful
well, who is this person????
hmmm
its not my personal experiences, its just experiences from other people..
well guess i am wrong in putting out this so called list, well sorry if it has caused any inconvenience, wasnt meant as a harm but actually wanted to assist ppl to be more cautious about any companies…
so from what questionmark mentioned, seems like you invested with pla or equity and met into some problems as well????
so i guess just forget that so called list….. now im getting confused about the whole situation, probably just dun invest in anything is the best option…
Hi, I’m also one of the victims of the UAG saga. I’ve contacted Insp Ho through email and also emailed Leoster. Pls keep me posted on the actions you guys gonna take. Thanks.
hmm, i would say this is just another investment ’sadness’, everyone has to understand investment involves RISK, is how high the risk u willing to take, of cos the better return the higher the risk.
just take the DBS things, what happen? a lot of people lost every cents they put in and what do they get in return? just a piece of signed paper, that woman who lost 200k, won’t she felt worst, if she had put in wine investment, at least she will have wines on hand and can do what she like to the wines, than having just a few paper.
is not about not to invest or not, is about know where you stand on your own $$ and not to invest your ‘coffin $$’ in. buying lottery is also investment, is the same theory.
Wine:
I’m not here to name names. Everyone has the freedom of speech. (I had given a very strong “hint” on who this person is.)
The reason I want to share is I am totally disgusted by his contributions in here giving “sound” advices on wine investment.
I am very sure he is/was from UAG cos’ he used the same sales pitch (all his investments and comparisons) on me… And now pretend to be an investor. Ask him to proof his investment portfolio with whichever company he deal with.
I just don’t understand how “low” one can go…
I just want to say that there is nothing wrong with Wine investment. BUT please do your homework!!
Hi Becareful,
I’ve totally agreed on what you’ve shared. So can I assume U r also an EX UAG broker? Well, I would like to voice my opinion in term of a 3rd party view, I felt that since such issues had already blown it up, we shouldn’t blame & pointing at any one. But to learn from such experiences and bring it along to share with others. I also agreed with akela on pple’s GREED n IGNORANCE esp. on Wine Investment. If I am a Victim, I’m sure to throw my $ for the investment. Nevertheless, I strongly urge that investors would wait for Insp Ho as mentioned for his report on UAG matter and not ringing up your brokers “haunting” them day & night for you $. Most importantly, they are not the ones to PAY you back. Do put yourself in their shoes. They are human too. Hmm..hopefully I do not offend anyone in this forum..but just to voice out how I felt on this matter. Lastly, I am also curious on the EX UAG AGM that Becareful mentioned…Who’s it. Haha.
EX UAG AGM?? hmmm what is AGM???
as i browse through all the posts again, it seems like there is only one person who invested with uag and given a few positive feedbacks… is he the one???? come on hint more haha…his nick here start with letter ‘hmmm”?????
yah.. think all the brokers should start changing their phone numbers… think they are being phone blast everyday like what happen to the bankers when lehman bros went down….
lastly, even if one has done his best homework, but got trick by the best conman into a so called “best investment” with the “Best company”, he will still lose his money…. so how?????? probably lottery is better eh….
by the way, i am currently learning to buy wines from auctions houses, the prices seem so much cheaper than getting them from wine companies in singapore…
anyone got experience with buying from auctions?? care to share and teach me haha…
but seriously speaking, from becareful’s posts, i am getting a bit careful now, whether everyone here who posted are actually brokers????? positive one from uag brokers and negative one from other companies??????? cos its suddenly seems so crowded here with so many different ppl around…. all brokers???
ok no one will admit anyway haha..
Buying wine is easy, its the selling of the wine that determines if the investment actually yield you any return.
Whether you buy from a wine investment house, auction house or wine retailer, at the end of the day, who, where and how much you can actually sell your wine for will decide all yor years of waiting is fruitful or not.
Dear all brokers and managers. Please do not act as an investors and try to stir things up and stop acting like an angel by giving “genuine” advice. You know who you are and i know who you guys are. Don’t act blur. You guys are still in the wine investment industry. If you guys want to continue playing this game, i will make sure your name and company details will be listed here too along with UAG.
To genuine investors out there, do not listen to some of the people posting their comments down here. They have their own agenda and self interest.
As for UAG investors, just pray and hope for the best.
May Tua Peh Kong Bless You
Hi all:
after reading thru the threads, I’ve come across a dreadful realisation. It seems that a particular someone here (with prominant threads), is repeating almost verbatim, what a senior broker with _ _ _, used to say to me in his attempt to sell this particular instrument to me. Seems to be always comparing with watches, art, etc…Oh wow, getting exciting…….like ‘Becareful’ said, BEWARE, “wolf in sheep’s clothing”
I’m not UAG broker.. my friend was.. he was under the “wolf” team… that why I got many info abt UAG… I was intro to “wolf” by my friend… “Wolf” was trying to sell me the investment.. like what “little bird” had mentioned.. same sales pitch… comparing watches, art, etc…
Wine: AGM = Assitance Gen Mgr
Anyway, I don’t think this “wolf” will post anymore… since I had managed to peel off his “SHEEP” skin! Haha…
what????
getting more confused, got no hint whatsoever what is this wolf or sheep you talking about..
After reading about the trouble UAG’s gotten so many investors into, I sincerely hope everyone involved can recover some investments back.
I have a new wine broker now. Sadly, his sales pitch sounded all too FAMILIAR, just like the previous one (this loser is no longer around - may have hopped to another company & I have been advised that he can be sued for breach of contract). Despite this ongoing UAG saga, he sounded so optimistic. They all do when they want to sell you out.
I have shunned away from buying the 08 enprimeur, although they are high RP pointers and going at a ‘hefty discount’. That will mean parting with over 20K for the next couple of years. Here’s the all too FAMILIAL sales pitch….Don’t hesistate, if you decide to buy next week, or even tomorrow, I cannot guarantee you that the prices will remain the same for we have very limited stock and they are going fast. I can bring the form to your office so that you wont miss out on this great opportunity. And last but not least, you will thank me for diverting your money into wine investments, during this period when people are losing money in the stock market. All my clients have been very grateful.
What I didn’t tell him was that, thanks to the recent market rally, I managed to narrow the 30% current losses from my 07 enprimeur.
Thanks Wine - after much consideration, I have decided not to sell the 06 and 07s. Will hold till the prices pickup. Very sour feeling selling at such losses. Didn’t get optimistic responses from a popular retail setup regarding their enprimeur sales policies as well.
Good luck to all.
I am also an investor in UAG’s mandatory buy-back scheme. I have one portfolio under them, which has matured in this month (14 May 09).
I have called UAG regarding selling back the portfolio. However, I was requested to accept another acknowledgement letter, which main proposal is call me to accept payment period extend to be within 60 working date. The reason is because current economic down, they need longer period to sell the wine. I have signed the letter and email back to them. I have also received the reply from them to acknowledge receiving my letter.
Actually. I told it will only extend extra one month (original period 30days). But in fact, it will be three months for payment period since it states working day rather than day. Unfortunately, I didn’t find it in the first place.
So, is it anyone can suggest me what I can do now? I planned to wait for it. But, when I found this discussion board, UAG looks like really sucks. I am quite worried for my money. Is it anyone has already taken back the money within 60 working date after signing this acknowledgement letter? Can I pull back it and say I didn’t find this details (60 working day, not 60 day)
My email: ye_shun_cody@msn.com
Hi cody,
you may want to contact Leoster (see her message on April 30th, 2009 at 11:16 am). Her email is leoster7@gmail.com.
bmx
glad to hear that you have been doing more serious consideration before buying more wines… well you are right, their sales pitch definitely is to rush you into buying, and to give you as little time to think as possible, cos they know that if you start doing the research, you will find more disadvantages than benefits and you would rather save the money than to buy from them….
what they are doing is really just like any retail wine shops, they are selling en primeur for every single year and vintage…if you buy to drink still ok, but to invest, only about 3 vintages in a decade is excellent and good for investment, dun bother abt investing in en primeur with average vintages….
lastly, same opinion as usual, especially in this economy, never never ever go into en primeurs unless you are very knowlegable and really know what you are doing… they are just too risky and not worth for you to take such a risk….
now in this issue, there is a high chance uag may close down, and all investors who invested with en primeurs may end up with nothing, NOTHING, not a single drop of wine….
if you know where your en primeurs barrel are stored, better call up the warehouse whether its in france, uk, or the north pole, just call and check to ensure they are really there and they can only be removed with your authorisation…
there are many scam cases where companies just sell you a paper and say ur wines are stored in these places, BUT… the fact is… there is no physical wine or stocks in the first place and there never is….which means they borrow ur money to do something else…. and get new investors in to pay you back if possible, and if not possible, old investors will continue to wait and wait and wait and never will the money come….
so for bmx, if you can sell ur en primeurs at 30% loss, i think probably selling them is a better choice, rather than having a chance to eat ur worthless paper..
well cody, best advice for yourself and others involved is to STOP buying any more wines, and hopefully some good luck will come by for all affected….however, based on history(all the stories of scam companies in uk and australia)(you can read these stories from investdrinks.org), i have not heard a single news where investors managed to get back a single cents after company closed down, those with physical bottles are selling at auctions for 50% lower than what they paid for…… these are the actual facts… and now, be prepared to be part of this scam history….take care and good luck again…
wine is right, stop buying and do not believe those scams that tell you willingly to take over your portfolio and ask you to invest more.
Cod, i suggest you contact leoster and join her group in taking seeking actions against UAG to recover your investment. As here is an open forum, i also felt that there are “wolves in sheep clothings” here.
Me also have portfilio with one only on “buy-back” scheme, luckily all my physical wines are stored in 12 degrees. Finding a buyer for the wines could be difficult and even can find, loss can be easily 30% or higher…A bitter lesson learnt.
I felt there should be awareness to warn any potential investors into wines and also help them avoid scams…
well james,
there is actually prety good awareness when such news are being mentioned in newspaper already…. however just too bad that not every single ppl is reading news…. you know, i am still very surprise when i heard ppl being con by timeshare or mlm companies today… i mean , arent they aware of the potential risks in such companies????
lucky you have the physical stocks, however you better go check with 12 degrees about the ownership, as other investor have mentioned that they are unable to withdraw or do anything to the wines without going through uag, which means only uag have the power to do anything to your wines…. wonder what agreement is going on between this 2 companies…… so if you have no right to take out ur wines, and uag really close down, you will still have to kiss your wines goodbye and eat your worthless paper…
James,
Thanks for your remind! Actually, I have red whole discussion board before I post. Little disappoint on why SG MAS still no regulation for wine investment industrial. I have already contacted with Leoster as well as Tony. I will post more details there.
Regards,
Hi Cody,
Wine is considered as an alternative investment and not a financial product.
This is why it is not regulated by MAS or any government bodies at the moment.
Good luck to you.
Jack
http://wineinvestment.sg
So what regulated by MAS? No investment is 100% safe. If you can’t take the risk don’t invest and don’t call yourself an investor.
Hi All UAG investors,
Good luck to you if you can get your money back. I am a victim of Aztex international and until now, I could’nt get my refund which Aztex promised I will get it after 18 months.
hmm,
with aztex, uag and dventure wines all related and under the same owners, this is very obvious that the newly setup dventure wines is going to be just another scam….
probably the newspaper should not just warn investors abt uag, but should let them be aware abt dventure wines as well, if not guess this thing will just continue on and on and on and on and on and on…….. one company after another after another after another …… probably i should be their partner… easy money… thats the best investment …
like this i just sit and wait for thousands of investors to donate their fortune to me… real easy man… will they just accept a new partner???
oh gentlemen,
i just found out a very interesting news, boss of awi used to be in timeshare scam too! haha seems like wine and timeshare now become very closely related:
http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/pdflib.nsf/LookupByFileName/00-115.pdf/$file/00-115.pdf
wonder, where the bosses of the other company came from?
another link, watch the last page:
http://www.lamrocks.com.au/newsletter/franchises.pdf
To wine,i guess its getting overboard here. If you claims that dventure, uag and aztex are under the same owner, please kindly show some evidence and justification to support your statement. Maybe you also would wan to show up to clarify this as well. well i can be very honest here that i’m from this industry. i guess everyone here would be very glad to see your proofs and everything. Many thanks
well, i have no evidence, just based on experiences of other investors:
1)
Fan on May 11th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
I found an article on UAG related investment in July 2007. http://www.voy.com/161450/2601.html
Is’ about a Victims of Aztex Int’l. Aztex Int’l is in wine business also. It state that
1. UAG and Aztex share the same office space and address.
2. Aztex staff is advising me to move the investment over to Universal Asset Group (UAG) as Aztex will close VERY SOON.
If D’Venture is set up by UAG CEO’s brother, I am wondering if they are trying to set up one company to plug the hole for the previous company.
2)
Peggy on May 12th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Received a call from D’Venture Wines again. They are trying to sell me more wine. Confirm all of them from Universal Assets Group. Same management, same brokers, same system! Sick of it! now waiting to get back my money from UAG……
3)
Peggy on May 13th, 2009 at 10:16 am
Hi b,
D’Venture Wines Pte Ltd
156 Cecil Street #11-01, Far Eastern Bank Building,S(069544)
Tel: +65 6222 1639
My uncle also received a call from them. I think they are calling all the UAG client invest into this new wine company… and again same people same management…. haiz…!
4)
Ed on May 13th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Guys,
Perhaps you can try your luck. If you can’t find your ex-UAG brokers, try to give D’Venture Wines a call..the one you are looking for might be answering the phone.. nobody know…
….
so whether they are telling the truth, let everyone make their own judgements…
and im sure everyone is glad that the above investors are willing to share their experiences here….
well since you from one of these company, YOU surely know the truth… so take care…don’t get hammered outside one day by one of your investor..
To Mac, I can show you the ACRA of Aztex. Dominic Sim is the CEO. Do you want to eat shit if there are proof. You might as well said all these complains of Aztex, UAG are bullshit.
To tell you my experience. I am nearing retirement. After I could’nt get my “timeshare” rent out (this is a scam anyway), I approach CASE to help, But they close the case because no reply from Aztex. I manage to meet up with Norbee (Aztex staff) at Suntec. I begged her to help me, but she ask me to wait for 18 months for the refund. And now 18 months past, but no refund. Aztex will not hesitate to cheap a retiree of his retirement money.
Mac,how could a differnt company know the contacts of “wine investors” of UAG and offer to “buy-over” the portfolios? Since you are in the wine industry, I believe you know the truth and I won’t be surprised that you are formerly from UAG and currently in one of the mentioned company or even setting up your wine company for whatever reasons.
i believe you have posted in this forum before but under a different nick. I do not know your motives here but am sure your effort to “mislead” public/potential investors will useless. Anyway, ST has also published the stories. In fact, it might be a good idea to ask mediacorp to broadcast on one of its currebt affairs program with the affected investors sharing scam stories so as to create greater public awareness.
well said james,
that is a good idea to create a much larger public awareness to lots of people who still dunno what is happening…and i think they should mention related company like dventure wines also…
probably we can invite mr mac to the program and share about his “Truth”…
and i guess all affected investors will be glad to see mr mac explaining and protecting himself on tv….
anyway mr mac, i am thinking of setting up an new investment company offering “guaranteed returns of 60% after 3 years”, can you invest with me, and invite all ur colleagues and brokers and family members to invest with me as well?????
and in case others still do not know, there is a high chance that new company vino en primeur and asset wine is under the same management as well……
just curious why set up a new company if the previous one is doing very well….
again i have no real evidence yet, if you are smart enough, check out the websites of these 2 companies, and you will find a 80% similarity in the content and both are using the same storage facility, pretty obvious already….
The person who is required to address all UAG issues is the CEO of UAG. Only if he can give an answer to all affected clients directly, there is no need for so much of speculation talk in this platform and clients would have an answer to their doubts.
WINE, seems your assumption is to link all the bad companies in yr list together and leaving the good ones alone. Do u find any similarity between Singapore Airlines n Malaysian Airways website? Quite similiar too. Bcos the products n services are the same. How many bonded storage facility provider are there in Singpore? If u use Cougar, ur related to AWI; if use XII Degrees ur related to UAG/Profitters; if use wine bond related to PLA….and the speculation goes on. A bonded warehouse is an independent service provider that store boneded n duty paid wines, beers, liquors, cigarettes etc in their premise. They don’t bother who are you bcos it is a business account to them. Many of the facts that u have highlighted related to wine knowledge and operation are indeed helpful, but not such speculation. Such speculation does not help anyone.
confuse…
haha u compare singapore airlines and malaysian airways website, is only similar in their services…
but if you see the contents in asset wine and vino en primeur website is almost 70%-80% exactly the same, word for word, every single word my friend…
means the website designer just copy and paste, thats it…..
is there any 2 companies website example u can tell me that have its contents 80% exactly the same in every single word???? any?????
dun try to hide confuse, or are u mac???? or are u akela??? or are u Ed???? someone with many nicks…… even james have seen thru u, come on… you are the only one here defending and protecting these wine fraud companies…..
or are u one of their partners????? can i join as partner???
lastly, i said there is a high change, probably 70%-80% chance, again let everyone make their own judgement, though its pretty obvious already,
with mac defending his uag group and u defending ur awm group, next,
will we have an awi broker coming to defend his company later, and going to mention that even though his boss was involved in timeshare scam previously, but now he is a good man???
so again, let everyone else make their own judgements…..
and confuse,
one thing u must take note that all these posts by us, investors, are not meant to help u or any wine companies, is to help the investors and potential investors of urs….
they will really be glad to not have waste more of their hard -earned money into potential frauds….
of cos you will be sad getting lesser commission…. well havent u got enough????
May i ask which statement that i made in my posting that u find me “here defending and protecting these wine fraud companies”?
My point is simple - the only person responsible to resolve this matter is the CEO of uag n he is not saying anything. No matter what we say, speculate or condemning like what u did will not help the affected people to get their payout or wines.
I have read the 2 website and understand where ur coming from. Seems u have spent quite some time studying these competitors. Wonder if ur also from the same industry, perhaps Profitter, PLA, Equity or WINE I that u have not spoken badly about.
confuse, or akela, or mac, or agm, whoever u are,
well u are right that the ceo of uag is responsible, however what can he say???sorry??? return all the money??? will a conman do that???? and u, are u working for him???
so my point is simple, as mentioned, i have not heard of any single person who was being con in wine investment, land, gold or timeshare, and still can get back a single cents, so have to give warning to others to stop investing any single cents to some fraud companies….
oh haha, well im a prospect with almost all these companies, and i have been wondering how new companies got my contact from….even until now still got new brokers calling me to invest, probably u are the one calling me eh….
thanks for reminding, the thing is the other 4 companies, only pla and equity i know more, didnt know anything abt profiters or wine i….
just to share a bit:
profiter: really know nothing abt them, cant comment….any investor wanna comment?????
pla: many ppl tell me they are good, but i feel the wines they selling pretty expensive…. so far every news i heard abt them have been good…think among all the companies, this is the better one…anyway got friend invest with them, lets see if he can make money from them or not…
equity: problem with their wine growth fund http://investdrinks.org/other.htm , other than that, their wines also expensive, than no further info, so guess still ok….
wine i: just know abt them, very new company, dunno will close down or not, see who dare to try out now, dun think anyone will try…
other than these 4, the rest just keep calling me, and telling me so many things haha, and yes they bad mouth each other, so thats how i found out a bit of their secret…so confuse, do you remember calling some prospects and saying bad things abt other company? that person could be me….
Dear UAG victims, please keep up the complains, police reports, otherwise you will never get your money back. My experience with Aztex victims is that just like UAG victims now, they made lots of complains 2 years ago to CASE, police, SCT, etc. But I think they could’nt get the money back or some only get the 1st payment. You know time will wear-off people resolve. They simply giveup.
Another point is don’t transfer any monies or agreemtn to another company. This is the way some Aztex victims transfer theirs to UAG and now see what UAG doing.
Hi All,
If you all are wondering whether there is anyone out there with portfoilos under UAG maturing at later dates, I am one of those. I have 2 portfoilos in UAG’s mandatory buy-back scheme which will mature in September this year. However after looking at above comments, seems like it will be tough for me to liquidate my portfolios as well. I sincerely need some advice on what I should do next so appreciate if anyone can contact me at anfernee14@hotmail.com
Btw just to share some info, I was also contacted by a wine broker from D’venture wines. After he contacted me, a few weeks later the news on UAG appeared on the newspaper. Then after that, I got a call from Vino En Primeur but I was too sceptical on all these after the UAG news broke out.
Hope to know more soon.
Thanks!
Hi, I am looking for wine broker to trade off my australian wine collection. Willing to pay good commission for good profit achieved. Anybody keen?
Hi day, can u provide more details wat kind of australia wine collection of yours?
24 bottles of Penfolds Grange 2001, trying my luck to find a interested buyer.
Thanks.
Hi pink, I have one collection of Cullen DM plus others. Which company are you representing? Can email me at dave.artifacts@gmail.com
well firstly,the post that i did was the first post.secondly to wine, wine on May 22nd, 2009 at 2:11 am
hmm,
with aztex, uag and dventure wines all related and under the same owners, this is very obvious that the newly setup dventure wines is going to be just another scam….
you said this and your explaining from anoher form?
thirdly to Aztex victim on May 22nd, 2009 at 10:54 pm
To Mac, I can show you the ACRA of Aztex. Dominic Sim is the CEO. Do you want to eat shit if there are proof. You might as well said all these complains of Aztex, UAG are bullshit.
the topic now that we are talking about is if UAG AZTEX DEVENTURE stands together as a whole. pardon my ignorance,wheather UAG and Aztex are together or not i don’t know.
Stop complaining about D’Venture, UAG, Aztex, Vino enprimeur etc….
wooohh …. shit … u r right … some similarity in wordings … GUESS what … the rest of the companines have the similarity as well, they seems to have nothing on their own to write but coping around ….
did they all copy each other?????
so is the youngest-formed companies coping from the oldest companies????
i don’t really find vino similarity are as high as u say … but i find pla is, oh man, the serving part seems so the same …
any way, as u mentioned i went to look thru books, seems to recall i read some where before .. haha guess what?? … found that they copy from books …
so i guess , the info seems to be almost similar, even the books ‘Guides to serving wines correctly’ ‘wine for novice’ ‘discovering wines’ ‘the art and science of wine’ said the same things, and R Parker said the similar things about which wines is good to keep for $$ …
so … out-of-curious … What’s the big deal???
All of a sudden, we have a few people now “speaking up” for the new wine company..This reminds me sometimes years back when I visited some MLM sites and when someone question whether MLM is a scam or says something negative, many othere will start attacking his person..Why?? Because those who “attack” him are in the MLM business..
Wine, dun waste your time with them. The truth will always be there..and readers in this forum will defintely can differeniate what is happening…
haha james,
yah in fact, i am feeling the same way that basically we are wasting our time, no wonder never see any “real investors” posts anymore…
like you say, the “truth will always be there” and these ppl knows the “truth”…
wonder if can form up a company to scam these scammers….
Aztex is not a wine investment company. It is a timeshare resaler. After the complaints saga 2 years ago, it closed shop. But where all the monies collected from all the victims go to? How can Aztex get so many corporate customers willing to buy the rental from all the victims?
I am trying to preemp what UAG will be doing. There are similarities. They will close shop very soon and do what they like with the monies. As a private company, they do not need to show their balance sheet.
Singapore’s Wine Investment companies are just another tactics from Timeshares… As they can just sell anything no need wines they can use other products like arts,lands,coal ETC or maybe Beers … They all have the same concept : Demand and Supply… If this business is a proven, i’ll be glad that private banks should do the same as them… at least much more safer… However to all victims of Wine Investment scams the best solution for you is to get those physical bottles under your name and in our local storage facitilies at least you can gain some rather then you lose everything… Seriously speaking no use to create police report or what so ever just take this as you did a wrong decision in investment like buying wrong shares in stock market… anyway good luck!!
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Wah die. This UAgrp is in trouble or what? Their inventory listing for my investment isn’t correct. Send email no replies.
Ask for selling price of my investment also no replies.
so sad. so scared. T_T
Any investors/collectors want to sell off their wine collections and are willing to explore new avenues can email to me pinkykyy@gmail.com and discuss about it.
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Ooooh Poor “Aztex victim”…..
After i read some of your complaints….Realised u r actuali a “BIG SOTONG” lor….Seems like u go everywhere also got CONNED….
Time Shares…Wine Investments…u name it…believe there’s more hidden secrets u yet reveal…i’m sure u also got CONNED by China Gals lor…Anyway…dun get over bother for those losses la…moreover u r already on ur retirement, dun need so much $$ in ur pocket…cos u can’t bring to hell anyway cos they using “Hell notes”…
Most important is…Jus sit and enjoy the process…of Dreaming being RICH…haha
Gooooood Luck!!
Yah, I realised too & I blamed myself for being sotong twice. But sotong catcher you must be from Aztex or UAG group. Beware your last days when you reflect on what you do in your lifetime, for you must die too and need those Hell notes you are accummulating now. Remember what I said on your deathbed, ok. Hahaha
Wow….
How come there’s so many CRY BABIES here??
Why CRYING over Spilled Milk?
That’s Investments mah….Where got SURE WIN or GUARANTEE return one?? *faint*
Can’t believe why there’s still so many NAIVE people like you guys….Sigh
Instead of Accusing those Investment Companies, Brokers or Agents…WHY don’t blame yourself for being Greedy or Stupid?
I Strongly BELIEVE those Brokers NEVER point a Gun at YOU & FORCE you to Invest rite?
That’s Investment…You WIN some, You LOSE some…
And if YOU can’t effort to LOSE…Dun Invest OK…
Either YOU Pray Hard for the Economic to IMPROVE…
If not, come over here….Let MUMMY Breastfeed YOU…
Sotong, you are a very mean soul…
Aztex, I am also a victim of UAG and can understand what you go through..Think it from another angle, we should feel proud even we are cheated of our money.. Able to give is always a blessing than to receieve, eg we are blessed to donate to charity than to receive alms from charity…Likewise, we are blessed that we have the money to invest rather (through cheated) than those scums like Aztech cheating others of money…We live clean and with honour, unlike them who lives on cheating others and also cursed by so-called their clients…I believe there will be judgement day…
It is create awareness, not CRY babies, so that other innocent people will be not cheated…Good for you cheaters that if we keep quiet and you can continue to scam people…Losing money in investment is no big deal, we post to alert others not to fall into your traps…Yes, you guys are successfuly to prey on human weakness and make your unethical monies, but i believe your consciences will definitely catch up with you one day..god bless
james is right,
to all investors,
what has happened has happened, you are not the only one, there are many others like you…..
the good news for you is you have finally know the truth and stop investing, what is sad now is many other investors of other companies still do not know the truth of their companies, and they are probably still being conned to buy thousands and thousands of wines today…..
thanks to all those affected who has put in the effort to create the awareness to warn future investors…..
thanks to the media for publishing the news to create more awareness, just hope that the truth behind the other scam companies will be released soon before more get cheated…..
the con men or women have already earned enough money to buy a nice car, or a nice house and the bosses probably just enjoying themselves everyday and leave the shit to the staff….all these with your hard earned money….
nevertheless, everyone of them is just a conmen…. and even now they are still happily cheating new investors of their money….
the world is so huge, now that singapore market is getting harder, these conmen will explore and focus on oversea market to cheat those who are still unaware of what is happening…. and what can we do?????
even singapore which is one of the strictest in law, they have also managed to con so many ppl of their money, the market in other countries will become easy target for them……
what you can do, you have already done it, and what you cannot do, just so be it…..
hopefully any investors reading now know what is happening and dun be stupid to continue to put in more money to whatever reasons the conmen said…..
if you have the wines, you can drink them slowly, its never a waste, if you have nothing, just a paper, put it somewhere you can see easily to constantly remind urself not to be cheated again by any future too good to be true scheme, learn from ur mistakes, and dun make that same mistakes again….
if there is no evil, there is no good, so one day we will see the truth behind the rest of the companies today, and hopefully all the evils one will be punished, i just pray that the punishment will not go to their innocent family or their children…. just punish them will do…. or have it already happened???
hahahahaha i think so, as one of them here have seem to become a mad guy already, shouting and crying all over the place , and changing nicks everyday, probably he dun recognise his own name already, or ……well… maybe the worst is yet to come…. i just wish him the worst ever life he will encounter every single minute….
This UAG issue really make relationship falls apart.. just to share my experience broker is one of my good buddies now turn our relationship to sour.. nevertheless i could not blame him but all my money gone bcos i entrusted my savings to my good fren for 5 years but now looks like everything is gone.. anyway saw the yahoo group thing that they want to go down to UAG office?? dont know wat they will do trash the whole place up?? haha.. even if we go down pressure CEO is not in Singapore, how to settle things? Must really highlight in strait times BIG BIG Article so everyone go pressure, i believe some may be not updated..
Please inform when Dominic Sim is back from overseas in this posting. Aztex and UAG victims should confront him like what happen for Lehman Brother. There are definitely frault to be formed if CAD scrutinise their accounts.
Hi KP & All victims,
Just wondering if anyone of you who have filed police report with Contact Insp. Ho (Ban Hsiung HO [HO_Ban_Hsiung@spf.gov.sg] or via seperate tracks might be able to share the procedures/status?
I have 2 buy back scheme supposed to mature end this year & beginning next year (but I do not think how it can still with situation that we are encoutering).
Anway, hope to hear from you all, thanks.
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This thing sounds bad lor. People sure got someway to go after this company. What options got?
Dear Wine Lovers,
As in any investment, you will want to buy your wines at the lowest possible prices, so that you can achieve a higher net returns from your investment.
Learn more on how to check on your wine prices here:
http://wineinvestment.sg/2009/05/28/how-do-i-check-the-values-of-my-wines/
Do you want to pay $20,000 of your hard-earned money into a case of wines if you can actually buy the same case of wines (in excellent condition) at $15,000? Make your choice.
Be a smart investor by first learning more about wine investment. Visit WineInvestment.sg Now and Subscribe to receive the latest updates and informations straight to your email inbox.
Cheers.
Jack, please don’t trying to promote your website and company here.
Don’t act like an expert. Thank you.
I have a previous post about not-so-pleasant experiences with AWI. Everything said on this forum about hard selling and unresponsive brokers, high broker turnover rates, delay tactics, are still valid.
Can someone confirm that Jeremy Kasler refered to in the PDF links is the same person who founded AWI Singapore?
Anybody else has experiences with AWI?
I just floated my portfolio to another brokerage firm and it’s just been told to me that the wine collection I have is not even considered investment grade by this other firm. So much for the LIES from Australian Wine Index.
To the nut case who identifies herself as MUMMY, please don’t expose your own ignorance by saying that it’s OK for investment brokerage firms to have unscrupulous practices and misrepresent information so as to mislead potential investors. Investment is based on knowledge, not your win-some-lose-some of a 4D luck. People on this forum are victims of fraud. There is no room for trivializing the matter.
yo…is the same Jeremy Kasler that owns awi la….he just scam people money in australia, you can find him in google and yahoo…just type his name in search
Hi SK, I have also invested with AWI. Have visited the storage to view the collection, but they have yet to trade off my collection…
I have one portfolio with UAG on “buy-back” scheme, matured in April 09, but faced similar problem you guys mention. Would wish to join your group to seek actions against UAG to recover our investment. Can be contacted via albert_chia1@hotmail.com
Shit! UAG office will be temporary closed to review internal technical issues. Anyone know who to look for to get back the money?
Tom, perhaps you can give them a call at 6880 4008 and email to enquiries@uagrp.com or wait until they re-open on 15.06.2009.
Alternatively you may try to give D’Venture Wines a call as well.
Tom and J.S. - how did you find out info on the temporary closure? When exactly is the closure - Jun 1 to 15?
Sorry, ignore my earlier post - just saw the memo on their website..
awi always got issue trading…i invest with then 4 years and they trade none
After the Straits Times report on UAG on 11 May 2009, I was trying to look for Forum on unhappy UAG investors but couldn’t find any until today when I insert UAG wine in the Search.
I am also a victim investing with UAG and although I didn’t invest in the buy back scheme. I was recommended buy back scheme with guaranteed 8% return in February but I find the price of over 6K rather high, so I invested in 24 bottles of wine.
I really have no knowledge in wine investment and the procedures. UAG was very fast to bank in my cheque in March this year. I was told that I will be able to see my wine in the warehouse at the end of May. But up to today, I still don’t see my wine.
My wine broker really scan all my contact numbers. She remembers all my nos., even I hold two hp nos. She will not answer my calls but only replies my sms.
I only got my account opening form by email last month. I believe she purposely delayed the whole procedure and sms me on 3 June, informed me that UAG’s office will be closed and resume operation on 15th May.
My wine broker had washed her hands and not taking any more responsibilities. She told me that Ms Nurbee from procurement will take over client portfolios.
While asking me to invest, she told me that my investment will be safe since the wine will be under my name even if UAG is to be liquidated. But she told me that I only need to sigh the Account Opening Form.
Can anyone advise does it mean that by signing the form, the wine are under my name? The worst of all is I don’t even see or smell my wine.
Can a wine broker be liable in a way of assisting the CEO of cheating investors? She misled me to invest in wine. I still got email proof that she told me that my investment will be safe since the wine will be under my name even if UAG is to be liquidated.
Wine broker is a Angel while asking you to invest in wine but immediately turn into a Demon after you make payment.
UAG…hmmmm they will not operate again i guess. I also have investment with them, till now i have been calling my broker, but no answer too.Anyone here can give some suggestion please.
Hi Angry Man I advise that you call or write to XII Degrees (admin.sg@12deg.com or 6732 0555)to confirm that you wine in there and under your name. If it’s not and you have an email from UAG claiming that it is, I recommend that you make a police report. I did so because some of my wine that UAG claimed had been delivered actually had not been.
If your contract states that the wine was to be delivered on a certain date and that date has reasonably passed you can consider making a claim with the small claims tribunal.
There are two groups I know off made up of disgruntled UAG investors. Contact leoster7@gmail.com or uag_investor@yahoo.com.sg if you want to be part of these groups.
Hi Cretin, I already called and email to XII Degrees last week and they informed me that my name is not in the list, no wine delivered there. I will definitely contact leoster7@gmail and uag_investor@yahoo.com.sg later. I hope to at least get my 24 bottles of wine. I am prepare to buy a wine chiller to store the wine for my own consumption, thinking of do that.
I was also wondering how many investors invest in UAG by participating in the sms contest earlier of this year. I participated and did not win any prizes and was then approached by my wine broker. I think UAG organise the contest in order to cheat more investors.
Not to frighten you, your investment is good as gone. UAG victims are experiencing what Aztex victims had gone through before. Even Ms Nurbee is the same person we contacted during the Aztex saga. UAG victims you must hang together to complain together or UAG will hang you individually, as the saying goes. But I still think you will not get back the money because investment implied you can loss the money. Even for Aztex case which is to get back the refund, we could’nt get it.
What !! Nurbee is the same person in Aztex…and this UAG is actally a scam going on for more than 2 years….oh my god !!!
any want got any idea hows AWI, will they close soon, my wines are still not sold after so many years.Been calling and calling , they always say get back but no. please help someone here. I am scare that they will close too. I heard many clients got the same issue with awi too.
I think many of these companies selling non MAS regulated investments like wine may be scams. The first few investors do make money but when they cannot find anyone else buy your wine they close shop and set up another business. What do you’ll think? A reporter needs to do a big big story on this to inform the public so others don’t get trapped. Any reporters here?
Can anyone share what is the Aztex saga about and who is Ms Nurbee? She sounds like very terrible person here. She can’t be a mediator between troubled Company and angry investors, right? If she is a bad person who involves in scams two years ago, why is she still here? She ought to be in prison.
Tessa Wong is the SPH reporter and I attach her posting here:
Tessa Wong on February 19th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
Hi all, this seems like quite a hot topic. I was wondering if any of you would be able to share your stories about wine investments with me, I’m a journalist with the Straits Times and writing an article on this. If you have anything to get off your chest, or anything to recommend, regarding your experiences with wine investment, please e-mail me at twong@sph.com.sg. Thanks!
My agent ask me to invest a portfolio of 2008 en primeur (comprises of 5 labels: Latour, Lafite, Mouton, Margauc & Haut Brion) at $24,000, price will go up next Monday…can anyone advise whether it is a good investment?
Nini, you have not read through all the postings here? If you have, the answer is obvious. If you have not, than you learn the hard way.
The newspaper cutting is available at the UAG investor Yahoo group I’ve created
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/sour_UAG_investment/
You need to make your own judgement.
Cheers
Tony
Nini, my two cents would be to keep your money in the bank.
It’s better to have cash than a certificate that entitles you to some wine that may or may not be actually there.
If you’re swayed by the (higher than bank) interest rates, imagine an interest rate of -100% if things go wrong.
Nini,
Was offered the 08 at $21362 4 weeks ago. (WOW! 12% returns already) I didn’t take it up for obvious reasons. You would have made more buying blue chips or selected counters the last 4 weeks with $24000. From someone still stuck with enprimeur losses, pls don’t be taken in by their song with the same lyrics which will go like this -
If you buy next week, I cannot gurantee you the same price.
We have limited stock, especially for selected clients like you.
So please don’t hesistate, for you’ll miss this great opportunity
Pls consider carefully. You will be parting with $24000 the next 3 years, before you see any returns, if any.
However, you may see early or bigger returns if the economy returns early or of there is a RP100 among them. My 2 cents
nini
$24,ooo for a case each of the 5 first growths u listed is a reasonable price. may i ask which company offer u this good price????
but u must understand the high risk in buying en primeur, you are actually giving free loan to the merchant or wine company for 18 months…before “your wine” is being bottled and deliver to the bonded warehouse…..
and if ur merchant close down anytime during these 18 months, probably you will never ever ever ever see ur wines…..
and if your company is a scam company, probably the wines never existed in the first place, which means again you will never never ever ever see any wines after 18 months….
with news of scams in wine investment now, you wanna take the risk???? are you sure?????? how many hours have u worked to earn these 24k… and a chance to become -100% like trevor said….
worth it???? well make ur decision…. and good luck… but hopefully u wont get ur retired parents , grand parents and close friends involved as well, take the risk ur self and hmmmmmm may god be with u….
just imagine urself in the situation as many investors here, now u buy 24k, 2 years later ur broker tell u ur wines worth 40k, then u say u wanna sell, then broker uncontactable for 1 year, until company come out in newspaper…..
then u will set up one more group here…..
if you wanna have a high chance to experience what they have experienced, then go ahead, give the free 24k loan to ur broker…
good luck…
Thanks for the advice, I have decided not to invest any more. No point to “average out” the loss as told by the agent. I got to konw this wine investment last year thru the invest fairs and was given a rosy picture. I had already invested a portfolio of 07 en primeur. Now it is paper loss about 30%, any advice on whether to cut loss and get rid of this type of investment or continue to hold them till the end of 3 years? Thanks.
Nini,
Wise decision. I learnt it the hard way.
‘Wine’ advised to cut loss at 30% as you may lose more. I thought about it and decided to hold. Afterall the price includes 3 yrs insurance and cellaring.
My broker MIAed after I signed my sales contract. Eventually I found out that my wines weren’t even put up for sale. Broker’s one hell of a crook….anyway he’s left the company.
And it’s not even UAG…..
Caveat Emptor
nini
if you can sell today, i would advice u to sell and get back 70% of your money…. why? you may ask.. see below….
07 en primeurs was released at too high a price, and none of the 5 1st growths is rated above 95 points by parker, with the 08s releasing at about 20%-40% cheaper than 07s and the wines rated highly by robert parker and a few other critics, this is the reason for the value of 07 to drop, and a possibility that the prices may drop further…..
many wine merchants all over the world are having a hard time clearing their 07 stocks now….. so if you can sell today and get the cash, why not????
again, we dunno if ur company is reputable or another scam and there may be a chance of -100% loss…..
if they are reputable, for the value of your 07 to rise back to what you paid for may take u some decades….. you wanna wait that long???????
well these agents will give you all sorts of reasons to get u to buy more wines, when they ask u to buy the 07s, did they tell u how risky they are????? no??????
so telling you to put more money into 08s and telling you all the advantages without you knowing all the disadvantages means next year, if it so happen ur 08s arent doing well, then they will ask u “Average out” again by buying the 09s… and it will continue forever… until u are broke…..
so my advice to you before these brokers read this forum, faster go get back ur 70% cash first…… good luck…..
and of cos these are just what i think,,, you make ur own decision… its ur money, ur life…. take care nini
arh forget one thing, dun give them the impression u wont buy from them anymore, act like once you get the 70% cash, then you will buy the 08s from them… then they will process for you the selling part much faster….. if not they may give u all sorts of reason s and drag and drag for months and months, then by the time they sell , they tell u sorry, prices have drop further , now you can only get back 50% cash and not 70% cash……
of cos, it may not be that easy, as they may ask u buy the 08s first before selling the 07s for you… well do u wanna trust that????
good luck
Hey Guys, why not try emailing Christie’s or Zachy’s Or Sotheby’s auctions houses… Maybe they might be able to sell. I’m talking about for those who have physical bottles. Can check with them the prices i think if you enquire… But nontheless i have a strong feeling the UAG already close down cos the CEO doesn’t seem to answer the CAD officer’s call… Donnoe what the next action will be…
I believe in investment there is risk, plus you need to be aware about the knowledge in wine trading so maybe you can sell it yourself and at least you know which one is a good investment choice or grade… BUT the most important thing is whether the bottle are in Singapore or not it depends… or else bye bye to your $$$
Nini, I agree with wine. Go for it. 30% loss is ok, just treat it as a lesson and learn from it. I’d rather you get back your 70% cash.
Have you ever queried about where they get their paper value from? How can you verify the current prices? From their mouths? Didn’t they also say that wine investment is “low-risk” and less susceptible to economic downturns? So how come there’s a 30% “paper loss” now?
They may be just jacking the prices higher themselves and selling someone else’s portfolio to you at a profit so to enforce the rosy picture.
Wine brokers, if any, pls don’t bother answering my questions above. Sure sure, any investment will have risk. That’s why I trust my instincts in being non-supportive of wine investment.
Nini,
If you had bought the 07 for $40000+, and if you were to sell off now, you will probably end up with about $24000 after deducting commission. That will be a massive 40% loss. I went through these numbers with the company a couple of weeks ago based on last sales estimates.
I had so many calls pushing me to buy the 08. After I refused, no more calls. I wanted to sell the 07 first and transfer the money to 08. Sorry, it takes a month to liquidate, so should buy the 08 first as the prices will not hold at such LOW prices for another week. Whatever Wine and Trevor mentioned above, pay heed. I’ve been through or heard all that. Most brokers deny that the company intersell between clients. You have to judge for yourself.
Warning Capital Recovery Pte Ltd SCAM!!
I just got a call from someone claiming to be from Capital Recovery Pte Ltd. He claimed that there was a government injuncture against UAG and they were working with some unnamed government agency to help investors recover cost. What bullshit. He couldn’t even tell me exactly how he got my details. Seems like they are trying to scam UAG wine investors the same way they did timeshare investors.
Nurbee will not go to jail even if there is fraud found. She is just an employee of Aztex & UAG. According to a Malay victim, she begged her to help as someone coming from the same race and religion. But she said she could’nt help because the decision comes from Dominic. But I am very sure she is a key person who has all the information of Aztex & UAG. Some past postings can still be found if you just do a search on google.
Hi Nini,
This is just my personal tip for myself whenever I have to make a buying decision.
“Whenever I need to buy something, I will ask myself a few times ‘Do I really need this?’ ‘So what if I don’t buy it?’. Then, I will surely take some time to seriously consider about spending my money for something which may not be useful for myself. It may take me a few days, up to weeks to decide whether I should buy this product. If I really need this product, I will definitely buy it somehow or rather. If not, nothing bad has changed and my life is still good without having to spend money for unneccessary things.”
By asking for others’ opinions and advices here, you have shown that you are not making rush decisions and is seriously doing more research before buying. And this is very good.
I have seen pretty good suggestions from other investors for you.
Do take their comments into your considerations.
Weigh the pros and cons and make the best decision for yourself.
Never let others decide for you. Because “Only You” knows what is best for yourself.
Jack
http://WineInvestment.sg
Hi, is there any updates about UAG and wad the hell is going on now?
I couldnt get approval for the Yahoo!group.
Pls help. =)
UAG is closing down, the next will be AWI. Please advice what I can do next to take my money back from these 2 company.
Hi Peanut
How do you know that AWI is closing down?
nonsense
Many of us are coming out together to visit AWI office ,after getting into UAG saga, we no longer want to wait for AWI to sell our wines, we have waited more then 1 year from the time they say they will trade our wine out, they are always coming out with excuses whenever we call them. Enough is enough
There is a difference between closing down and not being able to trade out your wine. If you are so desperate to sell, why not ask AWI to sell at 10% of your investment price? Or 20%? There will always be buyers at low prices…a matter of supply and demand. You know that your wine is safely stored in your name right ? So if you can wait it out then you are safe. Investing means you are prepared to hold, speculating means you are short-term, suicidal means you will go bust if you cannot sell now.
Hi Thu, we have even a lost of 30% of their so call “valuation’ and they cant even sell till now and we are talking about a year .
hmm…
seems like we are going to find out the truth abt awi very soon….
lets see if we will have more investors from other companies sharing their experiences here…..
thanks peanut for sharing your experience, this will be a good warning to any of their “potentials customers” if they happen to see this website…..
wonder are we going to see awi in newspaper soon….
Hi Peanut,
You mean some investors of AWI are getting together? Might if you could provide more details. I am keen to join in as well.
any idea if PLA any good? went to their wine seminars and seem ok? any bad experience with them? tinking of investing in french wine, seems much beter. what do you think?
I really wonder why ppl can do such things. I’m also a victim of UAG.Thanks to this broker, Samuel Soh Chin Keong. Through me, I brought him biz to almost 90K. Still tell me, he’s from NTU and bla bla bla…intelligent guy but no moral integrity at all.
I really pray hard that justice will be served to them. They will surely face retribution and I wonder if their families knew abt it or are they kept in the dark?
How can you blame this broker? He is just an employee. He is not the one behind this.
What a sore loser…
confused…
i cant really comment on pla……well, just do your homework and check up more information first…… never never never ever be rushed into any investments, they will surely tell you this offer or whatever price is the best now, or whatever, whenever they ask you to buy wines, NOW will always be the best time……. so when is the best time?????????????
just be careful…. if u die die must invest in wine in situations like today where more and more scam are being uncovered, i can only wish you good luck……….
one secret which a broker told me before when he is trying to sell me the investment thing, seems like many brokers or even bosses of these investment companies came from awi or timeshare………
so are they really trustworthy????????????
do ur own judgement…….
hi,
I was wondering if anyone of you got a call from Global Capital Recovery Pte Ltd wrt to the UAG issue? Thanks!
Hi Sheila
You might want to refer to comment posted by Cretin on 6 Jun above.
Hi Confused
I would say so far PLA is consider the better one in Singapore. Visit their office before and looking into french with them too.Their website is so much different and informative compare to the rest, from there I judge by myself that they are really looking into long term. But end of the day still up to you to decide.
Hi everyone, any idea is UAG back to operation today , as mentioned in their website.
Probably I will give a call later and check…
I also need to contact them to inform them about my portfolio’s maturity…
called up two times, also got the same voice message that the officer is currently engaged, ask me to email, bla bla. Already email them long ago but no reply from them.
Did anybody manage to talk to Ms Nurbee or did anyone went down to the office?
Any update?
Haiz.. i am also one of the UAG victim. The brokers, Ferdrick and Sky didn even pick up my calls at all after this incident. My relatives and i invested quite an amount with them…How can all this people took our commission and disappeared just like that. Really don’t know how… Utterly disappointed and depress now. .feeling lost!!! My relatives came to me crying and kept asking for my help..i already go through case and whatsoever all procedure. There is nothing i can do but to aimlessly wait. . Really feel sorry for them. Don’t know how to face them. Arhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
CAN UAG RETURN ALL THESE ELDERLY THEIR HARD EARN MONEY!!!!!
hi, i am also one of the investor. was trying to contact them but nobody pick up the phone. Did anyone try going down to the office? So upset now.. all my saving just gone like that. should we form a group to go down and check with them?
hi, yesterday my collegues went down to the office. to no avail. still shut.. what puzzled me is how can such things happened in Singapore. Ladies and gentleman, think our money gone for sure!! Is there anything we can do about it? Anyone?
I also not too sure what going on now or what should we do. I called CASE, they ask me to approach CAD and find out what is the outcome of the investigation and say the company maybe out of operation as during the investigation, all assets of the company will be freeze. My concern is are we able to do anything about it. Anyone know what the right we can execute now?
You can only pray and wait.
Watson: Yes, they wont pick up our calls anymore. I really wonder if they are in cahoots and why can’t we blame the brokers?
1. How come their resignation dates are so near each other? Such a coincidence?
2. Don’t tell me they do not know what’s going on in the company? No matter how couldnt care less attitude one has, by the word of mouth, one can more or less hear ppl talk abt the company’s issues.
3. If they are really clean, shouldn’t they at least come clean with us? What for hide? For fear that we will go after them for our investments?
The least they can do is to advise us the next course of action. Already for just a simple request that we want our portfolios to be assigned to the next broker, the broker already avoided my calls. Is it that difficult to deal with? I see he has no absolute intentions of establishing long terms investment relationships.
Like you say, since it’s the company’s fault and not the employees, coming clean is better than doing the hide and seek, isn’t it?
Perhaps to each his own….
I went down to the office on 15th Jun. The whole place is dark. Office is obviously closed. The place is not torn down. Just red-white tape across the doors and a pc of paper as per the website notice.
Any ideas if we can sell our wines IF we are able to find someone to buy it from us? Or must we go through UAG? Cant we just sell it off from 12degrees?
Hi all,
In view of the current situation, it seems that UAG is closing its doors to investor.
Also, I’ve spoke to other folks (within the yahoo group) and it seems that some are keen to start legal actions against UAG & UAG directors.
I’ll like to suggest that we come together and discuss this.
Also, I’m trying to contact leoster7@gmail. com to see if her group is starting something similar.
Anyone who is keen to participate in a legal action can contact me.
I’ll spend 1-2 weeks consolidating the name list before I send out the meeting details.
Cheers
Tony.
97956999
uag_investor@yahoo.com.sg
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/sour_UAG_investment/
Angry Man: i also got the same feeling that they may be in cahoots. Brokers like Samuel Soh chin keong(hard selling salesperson from NYP then NTU), fedrick (Recent join d’venture), Sean(Shaun)now director of d’venture(Claimed ‘brother’ of UAG diector ‘dominic’) all quited very recent. Two months ago, this company D’venture called me to invest on them. Wonder how they know i am one of the wine investor. Must be all this people leak out informations. I thought all investors info are suppose to be confidential?
Ya.. I think will sure join leoster7 and Tony for the legal thinkie.
Maybe set up another forum to put all their pictures in to prevent others being conned again. Irresponsible brokers!!! Dare to dissappear after earning commission of 7-11%. Sometimes i really don’t know what they thinking.
If they(UAG and brokers) are really clean. Should come out and manage all our expectation. i don’t mind the company delay payment. BUT PLS DON”T TOTALLY DISSAPPEAR. YOU ARE CREATING FEAR TO EVERY INVESTOR!!!
DOMINIC!!! HOW LONG CAN YOU HIDE!!!PLS GIVE US AN EXPLANATION!
Watson_Tan - To be really honest with you. You are not really those investor from what you have posted here. What is the whole point trying to caps your word and !!!? For what? U think by doing this ur money will come back to you? And you have alot of wrong info posted here. I wonder where you get these information from. However, its good to prevent others from being conned again.
What you expect the brokers to react and do when they found out Dominic is going down the drain??? Answer your calls and tell you they will pay you back out of their own pocket? How to come clean? Go see you face to face let you guys spit saiva on them? Brokers they themselves are scared shitless. Losing their jobs, credibility and reputation. While the management level are lauging all the way to the bank. Brokers take direct instructions from managers not Dominic. So if you die die want to find someone to blame, find the ex managers,directors.
However Watson i encourage you guys to take legal action against UAG if possible. Some brokers i’ve come to know are already in a difficult situation by finding new jobs in the midst of recession while having to answer phonecalls by terrible investors who cursed and sweared at them all the time. What would you do if you were a fellow broker? Give them your own money which you can’t possible afford?
I have to agree with you that there are some badass brokers whom already know that there are something fishy going on in UAG but they continue to sell like there’s no tomorrow. But there were also brokers who stopped selling and quit. So you cannot just say the brokers are irresponsible.
FYI. Frederick did not join D’Venture.
Hi Tony,
Thanks alot for setting up the group. Will definitely join in the discussion on the legal approach. Just like what Watson_tan bro had said. Don’t mind the late payment but why cant they just come clean with all their investors.
why cant they come clean?????
well, i guess the only ans is because they are not clean………..
cant possibly, they call you and say “sorry, our company was just scamming your money, don’t expect to get a single cent back, byebye”
Wine- What would you say and do if you were a broker? What do you mean by they are not clean? Kindly explain
Hi disappointed,
1. How come their resignation dates are so near each other? Such a coincidence?
- Because they came out to set up their own wine investment company.
Example: D’Venture Wines etc.
2. Don’t tell me they do not know what’s going on in the company? No matter how couldnt care less attitude one has, by the word of mouth, one can more or less hear ppl talk abt the company’s issues.
- Of course everyone in the company know.
3. If they are really clean, shouldn’t they at least come clean with us? What for hide? For fear that we will go after them for our investments?
- You already know the answer “Not clean”
Hi Duh,
You are right, not every ex-uag brokers joined D’Venture.
For example: Frederick Fok also set up his own wine investment company.
If your guys really do a search, they are so many newborn wine investment company around after the UAG saga and some of them even set up three to four wine investment company with different name.
So, do your research before invest.
Duh on: Are you one of the brokers or investor. I see all your posting and you seems to be a brokers then investor.
Reason why i say they may be ‘not clean’. UAG saga started in End Jan. However, those broker during end feb still ask me for wine tasting and investing since they already know company has a problem at that point of time. I ask them is it sure company got has got problem in redemption? Broker Samuel told me ‘NO problem’ all settled because director not in singapore thus cheque can’t issue out on time. Still tell me most brokers and management has just came back from their overseas trip during the chinese new year period. How can be shaky and bla bla bla. Luckily, i did not digged my head deeper at that point of time.
See, brokers has saw a couple of unclaim incident still keep asking us to invest at that point of time. They give me a feeling now that they need new investor money to pay old investor. Can i say there is a possiblity they are in cahoot or maybe that brokers are super hard saleman still care for his commission although company became shaky.
Apologized about fedrick info. Was told by one of the other investor.
aiya UAG and AWI are all trying to get our hard earned money, the only issue now is how to get our money back, no point discussing who open what company and who working where now. I WANT MONEY BACK, anyone can help.
To duh_on: Question: Normally when you encounter a service issue from from anywhere. Is it the direct service staff assist you first try to claim you down or do you see the director come to you?
Netherless, brokers already get your commission should try serving you througout till your redemption. It cannot be take commission then close the door and say don’t call me again right?
If the company is a genuie company that care about reputation and has intention to operate long term will at least send representative talking to us. However, UAG did not. Now, they shut their doors easily but how about us. CAN I SHUT MY RELATIVE DOORS.
fredrick fok and stanly ex-staff of UAG open a company selling their scam idea at lavendar place 2nd floor. and that D’venture is also belong to stanly which is also joining with shaun. i hope i would tear down the two places even i might not get back the money from UAG.
angel from the sky,
What is the name of the company?
What is the name of the company and the full address?
Angel from the sky
Where is the actual location in lavendar place, whats the name and I would definitely go and take a look , at the same time most likely will see my broker from UAG hiding there. Shit them.
duh……
what will i say????? thats a tough question….. one day after i scam your money then i let you know… but firstly duh, i got a fantastic scheme guarantee u 200% returns after 20 years…. min investment 100k, wanna sign with me????
then 20 years later you will know the ans…..
with your 2nd question, i think many others have explained further to you……. and i guess u urself know the truth more than any investors here…….
Go to the office and do wat? bash them?make a scene? dont waste time and put yrself in trouble they can still report to police and sue you… To those ppls who found out about the new setup company how the hell you search in google and found out?? sorry, it seems that you know so much here and there.. abit fishy, either you are really the investor, or competitor or maybe you are just his enermy… This UAG saga will be headline soon in papers… Talking about the brokers, i feel bad for them kena cheated too. Sure damn hard to find jobs now, what i found out is that the CEO over spent his funds thats why he running away… As a stock broker if you choose the wrong time or wrong stock u burn very badly, same way as you guys choose the wrong time or wrong company to invest with… There are still so many Brokerage firm in Singapore, the best thing is to check on thier status b4 you invest… To all the shitholes who’s been blaming complaining about your investment, please wake up!! Contribute to the needy next time… lolz
Angel from the sky:
Let’s share with us where is the location of Fedrick and shaun office. And the company name. I’ll take note. See if they will to cold call me again.
Anyone visted UAG office this two days? Claimed stop operation from june 1st to 15th but till now no one pick up call. Email also bounce.
Shit. Looks like is real. Gone case
Anyone visited UAG office this 2 days?
Phone no answer, email again bounce. CLaimed will operate after 15th june but another lie.
Shit! Think really gone case.
200% gone case… anyone dare to bet against me?????
was told that the investigating officer was there with his team to retrive some documents from UAG’s office..
Angel from the sky, are you refering to 161 Lavender street, #02-03, Lavender Place?
Another wine investment company 161 Lavender street, #02-03, Lavender Place Tel: 6297 7667
Same group off “wine expert”
Thanks Jesus, are they belonging to the same UAG gang, if yes I will pay them a visit.
Oracle Wine Pte Ltd
ORACLE WINES PTE. LTD.
Can find the business profile in ACRA but need to pay $5. No money already, already cheated money from UAG.
Oracle..ok thanks . I will go and make sure they do ORAL
hi all sorry to hear about that.
i was in uag for a month + last time.
now hoping to help find solution for my group of buyers who may have come thru me.
heard stanley is consulting for fred in his new company, not sure how true.
i was con in my wedding package too up till now cant get $$$ back.
i understnad how it feels but i think dominic did it once and again, so all must comme together to stop him.
it is not a unintentionally matter but a planned “collapse” all the while from the way i see u guys posted.
my clients had bottle and guarantee return so i think i need to check with them did they manage to get their money back but i lost some of the contact.
do let me know who is still keeping track of how to get the money so i can refer them to.
for those who are still thinking of wine investment , i think u need more prayers to reach a company worth trusting for once.
i sincerely hope that you do not try out all those new company in the market. lest u want a 100% no return
Gin
Salute to you. This is what i call ex-broker responsibilities. All of us now in the same boat. No worries.
We have all join in leoster in the legal thinkie. You may consider
[‘NO problem’ all settled because director not in singapore thus cheque can’t issue out on time. Still tell me most brokers and management has just came back from their overseas trip during the chinese new year period.]
I’m not with UAG or AWI. The above quote was exactly what my broker told me when I signed to sell my collection. In the end he didn’t even put them up the sale. He was from AWI before joining this reputable company. Now he’s gone from there and selling property, and I still can’t sell my wines. Alot of these brokers do jump from one firm to another and sell the same story everytime.
Oracle Wines, Vino En Primeur, Chateau - “ex Orion’s Belt timeshare”, AWM, D’Venture Wines all related.
im an ex-officer from uag as well and left at least 2 years back. my hp has been ringing non stop and i ve been helping but there is nothing much i can do. ive been calling everyone i know and even 12deg. can anyone let me know who to contact for legal issues and the CAD officer’s contact?
thx watson_tan. I will copy the relevant contact to them.
to all, fine wine investment is really a good way to spread out your risk and balance your investment portfolio.
but i think from my experience is that it be best to buy in bottle form and store through a 3rd party.
else if you really invest into any other things which are on “papers” only, the best way is to check if the company is registered and how much did they use to start up the company.
cause a lot of them are $10 company and empty shell.
If they are being sue their owner may not be affected…
the pte ltd are protected…
cause from experience is that even if we go thru small claim or case, we may not get our $$$ back. in my case, the court can’t even send out the court order??? =( as the wedding provider had already closed down!! and i am in a poor state now…
last but not least do not commit to wedding package unless you are going to use it now! (a bit side track)
I suggest your lodge a police report to http://www.spf.gov.sg/ePCLink.htm
All can see our broker(my is fedrick) would help us at all.
Sorry typo error should be ” all can see our broker “won’t” help us.
They only know how to earn our hard earning money.
Gin: Do you know the warehouses where UAG stores their clients’ wines under the buyback contracts? In the contracts the wines are supposed to be stored in XII Degrees but they’re not there. If buyers can trace the wines and establish ownership it will be useful for them. Unless there are no wines to begin with or the wines are all lumped together (not separated into individual owners).
oh many good posts.
GIN… i really have to thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge by being an ex wine broker…… your true words are extremley important for the investors affected…….
not like many brokers or “Fake investors” still trying to say good things abt their companies here…. haha…… these ppl are idiots….. like watson said…. i salute u also……………..
(sidetrack a bit) hmmm didnt know that wedding package also got scam…. pretty interesting how these scammers came up with new package or scheme for all kinds of business…….
Tom on June 19th, 2009 at 10:00 am
Oracle Wines, Vino En Primeur, Chateau - “ex Orion’s Belt timeshare”, AWM, D’Venture Wines all related.
wow tom, didnt know they are such a big family……..
probably the wedding company who scam gin is one of their family members also……
Gin
Thanks for the info, too late for me. i should have bought the physical wine than the ’stupid’ buy back scheme. ..haiz….i really can’t believe all this scam exist in Singapore. Times share / sunshine empire/ Uag /wedding package and should have many more coming.
Disappointed!!!
hi gin u joined uag only last year? pls help, i used to be there n i know some wines definitely reached singapore shores. i arranged it! but when i called 12deg on behalf of some clients, 12deg say there are not there! but i am pretty sure they were transferred from toll zenecon.
any possibility the physical bottles are held by 12deg cos they are not paid as well?
shucks….
Dominic Sim address - 50, Water Terrace, Lor Chuan. See if you can get him there. His parents and brother Dino Sim are still staying there. It is a rented property not owned.
It is logical that clients go after the source whcih is the CEO of UAG and rather blaming and slandering brokers n staff of UAG scamming your money. UAG failed to pay our salary last month. We staff n brokers are victims too. When approached Dom’s mum, who is also a director of UAG, she refused to sign the pay cheques for us citing Dom did not give instructions.
ex-officer, the wines that this group is talking about is not physical bts but buy back portfolio that we do not know whether Dominic and Gavin have paid or even ordered. You are helpful but you can’t do much. The missing link is Dominic Sim and the directors.
Gin, we have discussed among staff n brokers and we do not think that this is a planned scam. All this while payout was made to clients for buy backs and physical wines did arrive into the warehouse. The likely possibility is Dom has used the funds into other investment like Grand Sapphire or his gambling spree and has misappropriate comapny’s funds and landed us in the current state. He is cause of the trouble.
Clients, please make your follow up action with CAD Insp Ho like what we have done. By taking action against DOM & the directors whom have cheated our money is the only way to resolve this matter. There is no point blaming brokers and staff because we could not help at all.
Wine, for your further speculation, PLA is the actual mastermind behind the companies Tom has mentioned & also the wedding planner company that cheated on Gin and the group behind all these is actually the former SUNSHINE EMPIRE GROUP. Believe it or not but this info is juicy for you to input saucy and slandering remarks in this forum.
ex-uag staff, you smart alec. know a lot, talk so much. you yourself are a CHEAT. all UAG brokers including management like gavin and chung are well aware of this scheme. all have benefited from it. all lying brokers who never go to school, some not even o level, remember who gave you the opportunity to buy your house and car. earn big money in UAG and now when all go wrong push the blame to Dominic. ungrateful bunch of nitwitts. retribution for all who are involved in this will come soon.. including those brokers pretending to be remorseful. IF SO REMORSEFUL AND WANT TO HELP YOUR CLIENTS, SELL YOUR BMWs and PAY IT BACK TO YOUR CLIENTS. STUPID. Some smart devils, open same companies to do same old shit and cheat more people again.
heard dominic is back, rented a place somewhere else. his number change to 94899053. called him and caught him by surprise.
Hi wine,
thanks. on the wedding scam is real. so sian. my lawyer say is not worth suing. moreover i so broke can’t even fork out lawyer fees. hee hee
hi ex officer,
i didn’t know about toll zenecon cause i started that time with 12 degrees. moreover back than the wine physical bottles i sold haven’t come in yet thus i didn’t arrange.
hi ex uag staff,
i think maybe u r kept in the dark, i believe some of the management staff do know. cause i happen to know someone who brought my attention to aztech(hope i spell correctly)after that, apparently the former management of aztech like dominic + dino + gavin (hope i didn’t remember wrongly) were doing this again. i believe those pp who were in uag long enough like stanley + shawn + fredrick already knew. they just got to constantly bring in new blood to the company to sell it. now that i look back, i think they are all waiting for the bubble to burst only…. and to think the parents of dominic also know of what happen can still allow their son to do something like this.
to top management,
i think you could be dominic in disguise, i can’t think of any broker who are remorseful yet earn a bmw fm uag. cause those who earn a bmw should still be doing it like gavin / fredrick / stanley.
but for those who made a few thousands out of survival and after that realise, i think they should have already left even before this whole matter surfaces / could have even provided help previously. maybe dominic is not the only one who benefitted, but it is only logical for pp to curse him after what he has done to so many pp, to get easy money out of pp’s hard earn money and to benefitted the most (example bentley - if i spell correctly)maybe, maybe part of the reason for his succeeding scam is bacause there’s a factor of greed in everyone but that DON’T GIVE HIM THE LICENSE TO CHEAT PEOPLE (same goes to those who are still doing it). spare a thought for others, and also for your own love ones (they may not get cheated but something bad may happen to them because of your bad deeds) (the same to my wedding provider!!!, i hope he change for the better. not to cheat another poor fellow)
last but not least to dominic parents,
please encourage dominic to stand out and return the money to the poor investors, my clients trusted me to invest but now i can’t even face them as a person… he is still young, in future you want his son to learn from him also???
sorry to all who are reading, my own
sorry to all who are reading, my own comments…
Hi Gin, you seems to know many wine brokers in UAG. Do you know Karen Lim? How long has she been working in UAG?
gin…..and ex uag staff
wow….. i didnt know that even dominic parent is a director of this company and many other things u or ex uag staff mention, i believe many investors dunno also……
its really good to have someone from inside to share the real truth with all of us,,,,so we dun have to keep on guessing……..
like what gin said, these ppl have earning big bucks from others hard earned money…….
and hmmmmmm u think dom parents will encourage him to step down?????? they may be the real mastermind teaching him how to do business, i mean they are the directors???????? wow, and they are earning big bucks without doing anything……. why not right?????
yah hope his son learn from him, then one day cheat his own dad all everything he has …… this will be the best retribution hahahah cheated by own son…….
same here sorry to all reading… just some comments………..
but i guess investors wont get annoyed by our comments lah gin…… those who get annoyed are yah the scammerrs…….
or someone from the so called “TOP MANAGEMENT” or “CONMENS SITTING ON TOP”
.
Watch this last sentence from top management…. ”
“Some smart devils, open same companies to do same old shit and cheat more people again.
”
.
What does this tell all of you investors, all new companies are opened by these some smart devils…. to do same old shit and cheat more ppl again………………… so you wanna get cheated again???????????
or too much money to spare??????
easy, go Invest in wine……..
but nonononono …. if you really too much money, how abt give me half lah…… i treat u wine to drink……
gin: if you really so innocent, why hide behind a nick. post your name in full. can’t face your client then pay them back yourself. reap what you sow.
if you feel cheated. go ntuc buy a $20 bottle of wine and drink it. think that you are drinking your fine wine you bought with them. wine all taste the same, after all, all grape juice. Some grape juice in ntuc sell for only $2, $3. Why some buy $2 and others buy $1000 grape juice? at the end of the day, all end up as urine.
why not buy $1000 shampoo instead of $1000 grape juice?
dventurewine.net
come here and invest your leftover money. confirm $ in good hands. dventurewine.net
yah yah confirm its another scam…. one look at the website and u will know its scam
by the way.. its so obvious that top management , sunshine empire and wine. are the same person using different nicks………
another broker who turned mad and crazy after scamming too many ppl perhaps….
just like what happen to someone from previous posts…… or are you that same person…… yah probably right……….
wine on
i think you are probably right. that few posts could be the same person. Can think of why are they so supportive to a ridiculous crap ‘Top management’. Must be the same person. ‘TOP Managment’ seems to be ‘really’ top management. Know so well about the ppl in UAG.
Top Managment
Are you one of the few driving BMW. If you really know that its a scam all along, you should come out and point your finger at Dominic and gangs. You can help all of us ya…Hopefully ASP Ho can ask you out for coffee after check your IP address.
Gin
Don’t be agitate by them. I think you will have supporter. Cheers. We need more insider info. Thanks for the contribution.
dunno how long these have been,
http://www.mymagnumclub.com/
and grand sapphire thing belong to uag also……. wonder how many have been cheated again………
and i have tot that dventure is related also, however seem that dventure is also related to awm…..
hmmmmm
and vino en primeur seem related to awm as well,
so does that means all these 4 companies are related one way or another…..
so with ex uag staff and gin helping to share the truth……
thanks them again
will we have ex staff from other companies to share the truth as well????????????
any one from awi, pla, awm, equity, profiters, winei, who else, now got so many i also lost count haha…….
are all the these companies in singapore all related ?????????????????????? same scam group ???????????????
fake investors pls dun waste ur time lah… ur posts are very obvious one….. fakers…..
if i am an investor now, i will never never ever invest with any of these companies ……… think all are from the same group of scammers…….
like what ex uag staff mentioned……. all from sunshine empire???????????
or other timeshare scam like aztech etc etc…….
so what next????
wedding scam the next trend????????????
hi gin, dat means im way before ur time. our time are all physical btls except for one en-premiur for colonial estate if i rem correctly.
for the scammers, i knw who u r and u knw who i am. cos im really obvious here oredi. i dun care wad u r doing. i juz wanna help a fren and sm whom had bought the physical btls n are unable to get it out frm 12deg.
12deg is not being helpful and they are darn rude. anyone contacted them at all?
top management,
i don’t deny that back than i earn a few k. like what i mentioned.
i think my retribution is the wedding scam (sob sob) it cost a few k as well….
i use gin cause Gin is a spirit flavoured with juniper berries. that’s all.
angry man,
i wasn’t sure of other brokers name as it has been quite long since i was there.
watson,
i know i will get arrow when i post… i won’t be agitated. i just hope that we all learn and move on after everything got settle….
ex officer,
i took so long to reply one tread cause tied up with work.
that you already posted.
i think you before me. 12 degrees got dread down by uag i think they also very trouble, i won’t be surprise if they rude.
your clients got any document from uag previously? i think pass to lawyer for advise better. free short legal consultant can be made through legal bureau (i think something like this, can’t recall names, memory failing me) located at small claim court. than they will arrange for free legal consultation with voluntary lawyers for you at cc or places like this. if claim against uag for money i think lesser hope (just like my wedding scam) but claim against 12 degree (if uag really submt before, and you got the document proof) maybe higher chance…. i hope. (no guarantee, just providing a alternate way) cause engage a lawyer very expensive, end of day if your outgoing can’t even bring any returns from your investment, will end up spend more…. =(
Top mgmt really do sounds like Dominic. Seems he got pissed after address was published online.
Concerned Invester,
The no is not Dominic new no. I ran thru my contact list, it belongs to a ex-brokerage staff. Dominic number is 9790 7094 but he is not picking up calls. It will need the police and CAD to track him.
Ginn,
Part of your info is correct. Dom, Gavin, Dino r from Aztech but not Shawn n Fred. Fred came in UAG as a new broker just like you. Dino being a SIM started as sales manager. There is always new blood is bcos some brokers cant take no basic pay job and substain full comms hence have to leave. The wine portfolio be it physical or buy back, the selling price, coms %, buy back % were set by Dom and Gavin. Managers n brokers need to understand the portfolio details and present n sell accordingly.
Top Mgmt - CEO
I am no smart alec but a victim. Give us back our pay. Since you default the payment to clients, you do not appear in office and leave it to the brokers and staff to handle unhappy clients. You do not give direction neither answer to the situation and leave us in a lurch and now calling us CHEATS. The staff takes a fix salary, brokers earn less than 10% of the sales without basic while u earning hi income n with the directors took all the 90% and now not delivering wines to clients. Who is the real CHEAT? What happen to the books no one knows except u and the directors.
Wine,
we are a group of victims. We r really frustrated with the situation. Things will not improve neither is comforting with all your speculation. I have no comments of all the other companies policy and operation but what we want is to find the directors of uag to answer to us so that we know what is going on next. U sitting on the fence n all cool comments only rub salt to our wounds.
For all the readers here, Dominic is still away, he is not in Singapore. The whole thing is in a big mess, you think he want to return to face the music?
ex uag staff,
i mentioned ex management dom / dino / gavin.
i didn’t say fred n shawn.
but i did mention fred n stanley doing in another new company( quite reliable news)
Gin
Think Fred n stanley in set up Oracle as posted earlier
I think all info can be found in last 5days posted.
Oracle set up by Fred and stanley
Shawn set up d’venture with other 4 directors.
Comfirm shawn set up d’venture with other 4 directors. I have called in to checked and requested shawn to answer my call. However, receptionist claimed he will not comment anything since he left UAG.
is stanley and fred company also doing the same kind of scamming? i received a call from dventure, same sales pitch as uag.
hI Mary, I received a call too. According to the investors here, they are all the same,DVenture,oracle,chateau,awm..look at what WINE say…all related scam. Dont believe them anymore.
Hi all, juz to share my knowledge on UAG.
The Master mind behind of all these “buy back scam” was Stanley (Regional GM).
DS is just brainless puppet who only sees $$. (Controlled by Stanley)
(If you know the cartoon, “Brainy and Pinky”, Stanley is the Brainy and DS is Pinky)
Shawn / Dino / Fred (Sales Managers) are the executors.
Brokers are just any employee on the street trying to earn a decent living by doing their job order by the management. (Brokers are also “conned” into the job)
The high turnover of brokers was becos’ some brokers saw the shitty things UAG was up to and decide to leave.
Yes, many rouge brokers did benefit from the scam. I do know Shawn drives a BM now… Fred earned enough comm to set up a company, while Dino.. well.. earned enough $$ to spend on drugs…
The top management? Well, as many had mentioned, buy cars, gamble, spent on women and drinking….
Well, by the end of the day, Brainy survives another day… run away from all the shit and setting up another scam… His favorite pharse: “I want to conquer the world”
quite true…
just shareshare,
You are all for DS and the UAG directors and 1 name was missing hence making me suspect that you are either SIM himself or Gavin Santa Maria, ex CFO and director of UAG.
All staff in UAG and clients who are affected by the buyback know that DS is the key missing link in this saga. According to CAD Insp Ho, he is missing and not even taking up CAD’s call. Missing! We approached SIM senior (mum) for our payroll and she does not even entertain us. So is this also Stanley’s scamming plan? I am sure it is not.
During my time in UAG I only see that DS and Gavin are the only one controlling the books and cheques. Our payroll cheques are all signed by these 2 only. We have kept chasing DS for payment to our marketing project suppliers like printers, event organisers but everytime he will push to Gavin and Gavin taichi to DS. Stan and the managers do not have access to payout.
In the month of March n April,DS hardly come in to office. He has called for meeting with all staff but keep postponing and did not turn up in office. It was Stan, Fred & all brokers worked together to handle clients’ matters. There was a client (a lady) who came to office everyday with her austic son to wait for Dominic. It was Stan, Fred and staff who attend to her daily. Our receptionist and all staff can confirmed what I said was true. After Stan, Fred left, we the admin staff handle all the clients matter and DS never appear in the office. And then there goes our pay as well.
I do not agree that brokers left UAG because they know shitty things UAG is up to. Everything was well all this while till after CNY where DS announced to all staff that there will be a delay in buy back payout for some of the labels bt not all. Then things became worse when many clients do not agree with the delay payout. Even we bring it up to DS about clients’ legal demand to UAG on breach of Agreement but he just dont bother. It was brokers and our PR Exe who replied to clients’ queries.
No comments on Shawn’s car, Dino’s druggie deal and Fred’s biz.
All I know the one who cause all this mess is Dominic Sim and the directors and not Stan, Shawn, Fred, brokers and staff of UAG.
Dominic, return us our pay.
Watson_tan,
Can you illustrate further what scam is Dventure n Oracle selling? Buy back wine portfolios? U spoken to them and they sell you buy back wines?
Also have you check and confirm the directors of Dventure and Oracle? How you know they have 4 directors?
It is important for us to know and not based on hear say again. Much damages had happened to all of us and dont wish to be harm further. So far, I find what ex-officer, ex uag staff and gin are the few that input better info about the situation as compared to all others.
Hi guys,
i was trying to read about the posted oil articles when “Justshareshare’s” posting caught my attention…
Names were called like nobody’s biz and the name Shawn made me read on…. If i’m not wrong, I know the exact guys are talking about… I have a friend who is a EX UAG’s broker and i used to hang out with them quite often…
To my understanding, Shawn does drive a BM…. But what has it got to do with you? Ple may be starving/eating BREAD ONLY everyday just to drive a BM….You are linking anything and everything to wine investements and claim that these ple used the “CHEATED” money to buy BM…. What about DS? nothing against him?
We all know that he is the CEO of UAG and who else(except the board of directors (DS’ mum/G/DS))but DS can control/make decisions/sign the authorised signature on the dotted lines? you CLAIMED that DS is a puppet? Oh come on, you fool!(i din noe puppet is financially capable of changing cars so often)Brokers are CONNED into the job? (does DS keeps their passport to prevent them from leaving?(like how we keep our maids’))
Out of curiousity, how do you know so much about UAG(the female broker used to tell me alot about her work, tts why i can comment abit about this wine investment thingy)? You used to work for them? Or you are part of the top mgt?
To my knowledge, Shawn/Dino/Fred are the managers(correct)… Brokers are just any employee on the street trying to earn a decent living by doing their job order by the management(correct)….Stanley(Brainy) is not the controller (according to my friend)… She told me the board of directors call the shot in UAG… no1 else… but DS normally dun appear in the office…
Initially my friend earn quite a fair bit from her sales and she said that her clients did also benefited from the “packages” they signed up with her…But things turn sour when the buy back scheme was intro-ed…
my friend commented that this whole idea of the buy back scheme was introduced by the board of directors(i do not know how true it is, but i do not see why she wana lie about it)… and she as the broker is also unsure if the wines are physically there…she related that this Brainy is kinda nice who tried to extend his helping hands to the clients who came up to the office demanding for money…Shawn was asked to leave… and Dino vanished… Fred left his manager post(set up his own CLEAN investment firm)….n my friend got dishearted(quite alot of calls and ple appearing demanding for money) and she left her post.. She did not even receive her salary for the last 2 mths…
I’m expressing my views, hoping that the guns are pointed at the right person… i pray CAD can track CONman-DOMinic down and he kena the SOWS THAT HE REAPED…n pay my friend her deserved salary…
I read from papers and online forums, alot of discussionss about their guaranteed profits and paybacks…. Some really benefited from this investment and of course, some are “cheated”… From all the written materials, one can only conclude that the “buy back sheme” does not work… in fact, it is DEFINETLY a fraud…
From this fraud, people then linked all sorts of wine investments to this failed scheme and labelled all wine investments as FRAUDS… those who did benefit from these investments, i urge you to stand up and tell these people about your earnings…
Actually, I invested 10K in 2007 with my friend( EX UAG broker) and i withdraw from the investments (due to financial diffficulties) in Aug 2008… i did earn from there (although not alot)..
Not long after i invested the 10K(8 crates of profitable wines), this guy proposed the buy back scheme to me… saying that the returns are guaranteed and higher… but i did not go for it due to the cash flow problems (luckily i did not, if not CONman DOMinic will be spending my money in Thailand and China)
I’ve read thro all these postings and i particularly like and agree with AKELA’s comments…the way this guy/gal commented is so true…his comments are objective and impartial….most of the postings here are staing only the negatives…
Hence, i would like to advise all guys out here….most of the investements are REAL(it is just you know how to invest or not)… not all wine investments are fraud(jsut some black sheeps around), like what most of you claimed….and the employees are really innocent…
Biobography:
My friend (ex Broker of
FYI:
The name of the cartoon is PINKY AND THE BRAIN (not Brainy)
Hi Justshareshare,
I refer to your insinuation against Stanley.
I sincerely and gentle would like to remind you that slandering of any form is not recommended, especially if one does not have the cold hard facts, such as in the case of Dominic Sim’s scam using UAG.
If there were not facts to back those accusations against Sim up, I believe the CAD wouldn’t be so bored as to pursue a worthless cause anyway.
With all deference to the hapless portrayal of Stanley’s ‘fault’ in your post, I hope you can reconsider your words in future by stepping out of the picture and thinking OBJECTIVELY before causing dissension amongst the investors, who are victims and already feeling the pain of the burn.
Fine wine investment has been a subject studied closely by me due to a certain heritage of mine and I understand that because of one or two black sheeps, the entire worthy cause of the sound investment vehicle is being damaged.
As such, even though I firmly still believe in fine wine investment with sound brokerages and firms (such as the one the Queen of England herself is investing in; please check on Google, it’s accessible info), I will not blatantly put myself within a picture here by defending the whole thing as I empathise with burnt investors
This is called objective thinking.
I will not be surprised if yourself might (keyword being ‘might’, which means unconfirmed, unaccusatory suggestion) be, as one of the following posters mentioned, to be one of the two names mentioned.
Investors, I gently advise you to read every thread with a pinch of salt especially when it comes to words that might just be dirt being rubbed into your raw wounds, because I do not condone people who take advantage of your situation by:
1) advertising their own companies for their own benefit amidst this treachery committed
2) causing further dissension by carelessly and negligently throwing words around, caution to the wind and hurting burnt victims more
Salve is needed for eyes to be opened, medication needed for raw wounds to be treated, and as such, I conclude that careless words and slanderous accusations are NOT the way of either remedy.
I will not be surprised if any lawyer might be monitoring this forum in watch of possibly negligent remarks.
Keyword again, being ‘might’.
Thank you, and a good day to all.
I officially bow out from the forums on this note, and wish you all well.
Be blessed, you will be in my prayers.
Regards,
Elisha
Piggy, fred’s company clean? You WISH. stupid. Go and get yourself conned yet again.
I’ve been monitoring this forum for awhile and it is really amusing watching all the management and brokers like me pretending to be investers and washing their dirty linen in this forum. I’m quite sure that justshareshare is one of the SIMS, Elisha is stan or fred and piggy is shawn. Gavin is obviously not posting here cause he is too stupid and didn’t study enough to learn how to use a computer.
Eric On
I think you did not read the post clearly. I did not say the new company comfirm ‘Scam’. I say i called in to comfirm d’venture set up by shawn and other 4 directors. Do feel free to call in and check dude.
Just shareshare /Piggy/ Elisha
You are not an investor. You are somehow relate to the person that all of us commented on. Save your breath.
watson
well , seems like you are the only real investor……. and someone not related to any of the brokers or management or directors or whatever….. so i just comment for you….. ok i may be wrong …. maybe u are a broker like the rest…….
anyway, you say u dun wish to be harm further….. what do u think its the best way for not being harm further?????
by investing more of your hard - earned money to test out other wine investment companies whether they are scam???????
worth the risk?????? come on….
if you dun wana learn after one lesson, then go ahead and probably you will finally learn after the 2nd , 3rd , 4th , 5th lessoon or probably until u are left with debts or $0 in ur bank…….
doesnt mean only buy back scheme is scam
do u wanna trust someone who set up a new company, and this someone came from a previous scam company???????
well i can only say so much for you…. its ur money anyway…..
for me . i will never ever trust any investment companies especially those newly set up ……
those with more than 10 years history with proven track records , i will at least research more abt on them, speak with their previous real investors, see if their wine prices is good etc etc etc………………
so any real investor wanna trust any more investment scheme or plan or timeshare, or landbanking or whatever investment ……….
well good luck and dun come back here crying when u found out u got cheated again…… cos u choose to take the risk of being cheated………..
and i agree with some comments here that wine can still be a very good investment…….
provided u invest with a good real trustworthy company, or u can just do ur own investment like our very own famous wine connoisseur, Dr N K Yong….
he is one of the most influential wine person in ASIA….. do u wanna trust him or some sales person?????? make ur judgement,….
and this is the latest article he wrote for business times……
ALL INVESTORS PLS READ ….
http://www.asiaone.com/Business/My%2BMoney/Building%2BYour%2BNest%2BEgg/Investments%2BAnd%2BSavings/Story/A1Story20090529-144884.html
one quote from him:
“Personally I prefer the DIY approach. One has to remember that you are paying money to the directors/managers of the fund to administer your money.”
i would rather be like him to invest in DIY approach, do my own research learning, buy my own wines, find my own storage, and then sell myself through auctions or merchant…….. at least any mistake i make is my own……
i dun have to depend on some “EXPERT SALES MAN ” OR “CONMAN”, who will keep telling you the wines they are offering you now is the BEST WINE and NOW IS THE BEST TIME,
then after u buy this wine,
next week or next month, another BEST WINE AND NOW IS THE BEST TIME……….. DUN WAIT, blablabal shit SALES LINE……
so conclusion is wine is still a good investment…………………………
thats why ppl are making use of this concept to scams millions of dollars…….
there are still good companies around…….. but who is good??????
do u know?????
i dun dare to risk my life savings to try try and test test…….
u dare????? go ahead and good luck……
if not….. take ur time…. research ,,,, and DIY urself….
no time???? dun invest
warren buffett dun become a billionaire by investing with some “EXPERT SALESMAN:”
he did his own research and invest based on his own thinking………
u wanna learn from a real successful investor or u wanna learn and listen to a succesfful SALES MAN (Who dun make money by investing, but make most of his money by getting u to invest….)
so once again good luck to all investors……….
to the real investors who was affected, or who dunno they are affected now, and probably in future will find out, i can only wish u good luck once again……..
i can’t agree more with wine
once bitten twice shy, twice bitten never try or should i say if you really want to try must go for older company with more track record (not saying they won’t go burst) but at least there is something to refer to (well not indicative of future performance though)
in a investment, play safe and you earn little (i mean we learn fm insurance) and end up we want to try the riskier ones… (in hope for higher returns)
end of day think twice if you still want to have some money in ur pocket. esp a time like this.
Reply pertaining to
quote
DominicSim on June 24th, 2009 at 1:16 am
Piggy, fred’s company clean? You WISH. stupid. Go and get yourself conned yet again.
unquote
whoever you are… but pls be matured and do not call names here… on what basis are you commenting about his company? Have you invested with them? Or have you been conned by them? I bet you did neither of the mentioned…YOU WERE MERELY LABELLING THE NEW COMPANY…
Reply pertaining to
quote
GrinningBroker on June 24th, 2009 at 1:23 am
I’m quite sure that justshareshare is one of the SIMS, Elisha is stan or fred and piggy is shawn. Gavin is obviously not posting here cause he is too stupid and didn’t study enough to learn how to use a computer.
unquote
This is just another example of someone ignorant trying to act smart (gei kiang).. I’m not Shawn nor am I Stan/Fred/Sim/Gavin… (if i’m shawn, i will boast about my car, instead of typing there” Ple may be starving/eating BREAD ONLY everyday just to drive a BM….You are linking anything and everything to wine investements and claim that these ple used the “CHEATED” money to buy BM…. ” do you read with your eyes open?
Reply pertaining to
quote
Watson_Tan on June 24th, 2009 at 1:48 am
Just shareshare /Piggy/ Elisha
You are not an investor. You are somehow relate to the person that all of us commented on. Save your breath.
unquote
You are so right, I’m not a full time investor… and i bet you are not too… INVESTORS STUDY BEFORE INVESTING.. I BET YOU DIN’T…
As written earlier on, I’ve made myself very clear…
quote
I’m expressing my views, hoping that the guns are pointed at the right person… i pray CAD can track CONman-DOMinic down and he kena the SOWS THAT HE REAPED…n pay my friend her deserved salary…
unquote
I’m not trying to cover anyone’s ass here (Watson, you are too sensitve)
Whatever it is, i’m just trying to clear the air and be objective here… I sympatise the majority out here who were deceived and conned by CON-DOM.. even the employees too… they did not get their deserved pay (basis salary)….
Most impt to to track him down… not setting up forums and GOSSIP about it and labelling all wine investments as scams and frauds … I do think all of you deserved to get back your promised money if not at least the physical wine (so you can drink / sell it)…
*all the best*
I think those who left the UAG and set up the new wine company is retarded, who will buy from them? no body will trust them. They are ‘digging their own grave’
They should put more effort to help their victims to GET back their money, if they have a conscience.
I believe what goes around comes arounds=)
The people that makes money… wants to make more money… The people that lost money… wants to make back the lost money… It seems investment is only a legal word for gambling…
Piggy, fred’s coy probably scam cause con man who work for con coy will forever be a conster. A leopard will never change it spots. You are so protective of Fred, makes me wonder if you are fred behind the keyboard. why? veli scared you can’t con anyone anymore?
give me back my money.
I used my father (who is now 88) money about 10K for investment, Just because I belive my broker. Now I not only loss 10K is total 20K, cos I need to return $ to him. I am very poor now!
To Wine on /Eric On
What happen to both of you. I did not comment this sentence.
‘anyway, you say u dun wish to be harm further….. what do u think its the best way for not being harm further?????’
Can you pls check my post from 16 jun til today. Too confused by the sudden flood of posts?? Haiz…
Guys the only way not to get con again is to avoid calls from which ever company that setup recently.Stay away from them especially if your previous broker were to call you again or other company stating that they will help sort out your UAG wines, these are all sales tactics.Just Let the CAD handle.
Someone here also mentioned those new company news here, just avoid any of these. Check their company back ground, paid up capital, the name of the person that registered, how long history the have,check with case if any complaint of these company before , how many different company is register in the same address….end of the day, I just have to say AVOID THEM>
yah watson, sorry typo error…..
its for eric……
anyway that post is meant for all real investors, or anyone thinking of investing now………
i will nail all involved in this. The Sims, Gavin, Stan, Shawn and Fred. All will have the same fate very soon.
Guys, my advice, to get your money back on these wines investment or timeshare deals, just report your case along with the other victims to CAD immediately! Do not hesitate or go through any other firms!
Listen, this is important, when timeshare people earn their money from that industry, they setup companies claiming to help you sell your timeshares. Again they con your money to invest further. After which, they could not help you after 1-2years, they closed down, they set up other companies like wine investment firms and such and calling victims or new prospects up for wine investments and use that 1-2year period that investors have invested money with them to spend on luxury items or to roll to another company whatever it can be in the future.
Why fall into the same trap?
If these so-called investment are really worthy, why aren’t the banks doing it? Think before you invest in anything. Why use money to cover the mistakes you have made years back hoping to gain back the loss?
Think, like when you apply for credit card with any bank, probably only that specific bank will call you up for other respective products because they have your database.
But these investments be it timeshare, wine and such, if 1 company closed down, how would it be possible for another competitor company or so-called authorities to call you up again for another investment? Unless, these people behind are all inter-linked. Isn’t it true?
If you have any timeshare calls or wine investment calls, before you invest, please do a check on the respective company, the directors behind the company, the date of the startup, the capital paidup. Don’t be the next victims. After you paid that small little amount to check on them, you will realise the truth behind all these companies. You can spend thousands to invest, why can’t spend a few days and pay the small fee to do the necessary checks before being the next victims?
Why rush into the investment on the very day just like Timeshare tactics. Listen! All i can say, most of all these firms who just call you up for investment or state they have freebies or you have won prizes and such. Why believe?! Listen, Greed is the main reasons they see in most investors, that is why more n more such people in these industries see it as an opportunity to earn big bucks by opening new firms when they failed to deliver what they promise to the customers, they shut their doors, and operate in another venue and another name. Why let them continue to cheat more and more people.
Final Advice, if you ever pick up these calls, AVOID them, Slammed down their calls, when nobody invest anymore or patronize their business, they will slowly disappear in the market. These people behind these firms basically need your money to roll their luxuries, this is all I have to say…
god have eyes,
Every investment company including “Bank” also doing the samething.
The database is passing around from Bank A to Bank B.
DS is Dominic Sim? Or Dino Sim? hmm…
Hi Vroom , What ever DS , Inspector Ho say will nail all sims..read the posting.
By the way , so any one got received call from CAD or not. i waiting for news still..looks like we wont get back the money already.
resigned to fate.
Yup. I did read everything. I read up quite alot on wine investment online and all. but never heard of guarantee buy back things or such. but they do have en primeur which is something like the buy back scheme. but not guaranteed. its simply just investing in the wines when its in the fermentation period right? then when it goes into the bottle, u can choose to keep it for a longer period till it’s price rise up even more. so Dom made use of this and made it into a time shares thing? it could be right?
my friend apparently invested in the buy back thing. that’s why i want to find out more. he is quite a close friend to me. we know each other for 14 years already. so hence i come in here and busybody abit. my apologies. he did receive a call from some recovery company (cant recall the company’s name). from what i saw in here, i am even more worried for him. do help me out here before he makes a decision to ask that recovery company to help. i thank u guys in advance.
but also i find it quite weird cause when UAG cease operation, and Dom disappeared, then suddenly this recovery company starts. a bit weird dont u guys think so? like as if the recovery company also belongs to him. its like how that company knows who the clients of UAG is? and at the same time when UAG ceased operation, they start this nonsense company. hmm… weird…
agree?
Peanuts,
Are you seriously believe the Inspector Ho is CAD Insp Ho himself? Pls call CAD Insp Ho and find out from him directly.
Watson_Tan,Peanuts,Wine
The reason I am asking because there is a differece between ‘these companies has 4 directors’ (general info) and “they are all the same,DVenture,oracle,chateau,awm..look at what WINE say…all related scam “(warning). Hence we have to get our facts right.
I am a UAG client since 2007. I have more than 100 bt of wines in 12Degrees, 2007 en primeur while my buy back was due in late 2008 and was paid by uag without delay. Now likely my 2007 en primeur is in trouble.
Another reason I am asking you is because the info given by many people in this forum is not exactly what I have experienced. Many including yourself cliams that yr broker do not take your calls. Fyi, since UAG problem arised, it was my ex broker (whose name was mentioned by some of you here) who keep me update on the progress. After UAG ceased operation on 16th Jun, he has written to all his clients (cc to all)and informed us about Global Capital Recovery. He warned us about this company and do not fall into their scam. One of his client went to visit GCR and wrote an email to all to update us on his experience and told us to ignore this company. My broker also helped us to arrange for 12degrees and I have gotten my Inventory Report and sorted out my new storage arrangement with XII. He also advised us on making police report, provide Insp Ho contact number for us to liaise with CAD. I have also received an acknowledgement letter from the police on my reporting. He also liaised with clients who wanted to take legal action against UAG and one of us have taken the lead to form a group for legal action. The only outstanding thing now is waiting for CAD report on the en primeur for me and the buyback portfolio for others. We has since communicating among clients because he has provided us the email address contacts. Hence I would like to say a fair statement that my broker has been helpful and did assist us with what he can do even he has left UAG. We have >70 clients in that email blast. I believed we are all his direct clients. It is an unfortunate incident that UAG failed but obviously it is the doing of the directors of the company and not the brokers or staff. There is no point to vent yr anger here and putting forth remarks that do not help the current situation. For those that have wines with 12degrees I would suggest that you make arrangement directly with 12degrees and sort out the administration. For those that have not make a police report pls do so as well. As for legal action, I will not do so because I do not want to put good money into bad money as we are not sure if uag can afford to pay for all the damages.
Eric
i cannot deny there may be good eggs amount the bad. Maybe you can advised me on the broker’s name. However, i have view through the whole forum again and i realise that except for the few directors. Name: Sky/Fedrick/Samuel being mentioned the most. I think you are refering to one of them right. Sky and samuel i don’t think they have 70 clientbase. You should be referring to fedrick. Then i can only say you are really the lucky few. To my understanding, yes he did help some but around mar, he stop picking up calls(Maybe due to overwhelming complaint that can’t handle anymore). Thanks to other investor info, manage to find out Sky working in taka wine company at Bino, claimed to help at first but did not revert. i intend to go down check with him again. As for legal action. Can’t deny there is cost involve. Thats the reason all of us pool together to minize it. Its of course up to individual decision. Since we are all victims, still i want to wish all of us good luck. ‘Anyone out there, if you manage to claim anything pls notify us’
Hi Piggy, on your posting on June 23rd, 2009 at 11:03 pm, you mentioned that you have a lady friend who has since left UAG, may I know who is she?
she is stan
Today, I was doing housekeeping and found a copy of pdf printout on Today newspaper on 14 January 2009 on UAG advertisement on ‘Stand a chance to win instant CASH Prizes!’ sms contest.
The telephone to sms to is 9231 9207.
I participated in this sms contest, didn’t win but was contacted by my wine broker, Karen Lim.
Does anyone know Karen Lim? She told me that she worked in UAG for six years and that she was the only female wine broker in UAG.
It seems that she not only lied to me that she worked there for six years because UAG hadn’t have six years record of operation and that there was some other female wine brokers.
Does anyone know Karen Lim? Anyone here wine portfolio handled by her?
my broker name is mentioned that cannot be contacted,but it is not true. he always response my call and sms.uplated the lattest new through e mail
To bok,
I suppose it depends on how much you invested and how the broker believe your potential. They will continue provide good service to those they believe have potential to further invest…
Dear All
I have just checked the newly opened wine investment company details.
All of them are registered under very very young names, the paid up capital all very low. I am sure all those in the board of directors are ‘Tua Pek Kong” ( Get Paid To register names ). i WONT fall for it again.
All this scammer , return my money and our money.Dominic, Stanley, Shawn,Fred, SKy ETC….
Be realistic, all investors you think those idiotic bastard or who are involved in this scam will pay you back, My only wish is to see those involve got caught and sentences to 150 years. Dun blame others for scolding, because you guys deserve, you know what you have done, u can lie to everyone in the world but no GOD. investors just tell your self those people are son of bitch they are not humans have the heart to cheat but dun dare to admit call themselves man? rather better hid under the pussy. how long can they hid? I will pray one day one of their family members wll get con and they will know how it feels for their love one to get CON. Till that day Come i shall pray, because my friend was a victim, he needs the money now that he is retrench, but what to do, DOM if u are still a man who cares for your mum, and love one come and answer
Ya..get those CONMAN arrested. They did everything with planning.Just like some of the blogger mentioned here, how can the new company that was setup by stanley,shawn,fred,sky or whatever new company and etc company has the data base of UAG clients.They definitely are link together.I have received phone calls from Dventure brokers stating that they will help with my investment with UAG, bullshit..everything is bullshit.They trying to con me again and I am not stupid.I hope that those brokers or bosses of those new company who is reading this messages here will have some HEART and not carry on cheating people money.What goes around comes around.We are also not stupid here and we have done research on New Setup companies…guys dont cheat again.
Ya…People please listen! Do not fall for all these tricks. These peoples are only trying to scams you all over again. From everyone involve in this UAG saga the CONMAN have move to another company. They are all using dirty business! I am going to go after them. I will sue them for all the wrongs they have done. I will get them to jail!
Those guilty and responsible in the UAG saga not only need to go to jail, hopefully they can receive canning also. Wine brokers are a bunch of cockroaches.
Update to all
I have contacted asp ho and currently UAG CEO dominic is finally under arrest warrent for commercial fraud. Immigration last record in Hong Kong. Our money comfirm gone already. For clarification, please call asp Ho or email him if require. If anyone happen to know any update news, please post here. Thanks
To Wine Peanut Tom and Eric
How come only Dventures,Orcle,AWM,Vino En Primeur are related to each other as i check all got different reg acra… How the hell you know this kinda of information, or unless u guys are from the same related line of Timeshare b4?? LGM?? Fook u guys spamming about la.. u too cheat ppl then you talk cock for what!! we know who you are, bullshitting around.. Get a life, investors wont have time to complain or spamming around here all go police report or CAD… farking hell you got guts just go down their office lor.. then let us everyone here know what you have done maybe go invite journalist to interview those scammers… Full of Shit in your brains…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/oct/19/scamsandfraud
very similar news to wine scams in singapore…….
“telephone con artists” haha nice descriptions of these idiotics scammers……
lets hope all these scammers will be jailed or scammed by the king of scammers…… and be bankrupt… lose their family, house, cars, all these are bought by others money anyway….
so bad luck to u scammers, and i know u are reading these and proud of being a scammer….. be careful when u cross the road…. god will punish u ……
To Wine,Peanut,Eric,Tom, please explaine what scamprofiters mentioned??
Today i am so happy finally madoff got 150 Years =) I hope when the authority get hold of him all those responsible will get 150 years in jail… Meanwhile i will let everyone knows that wine investment can never be trusted at all.. I am puzzled if DOM was involved in Aztex Int’l, How can the authority let such a CON man open another company… Dear fellows victims kindly let all your love one friends know about this scam as i will…
To all victims… my friend and i have discuss with our lawyers and the result is 99.9% our money will be gone and its not likely to gain if u went for class suit as the outcome is 100% UAG is gone, 100% creditors will get the asset, we will just have to wait and file as creditors.. i was suprised that UAG also owns 12 degress money… UAand those culprit u know who u are. i will pray hard to GOD that nothing good will come to you people….
To all investor dun every invest in WINE INVESTMENT
I still very much prefer stock investment because the Control is on my hands and is much more transparent. Stocks provide dividend and you can always hold on to stocks even in a bear market, you just wait for the market to recover. Don’t need to keep asking my wine broker when can I see my wine in the warehouse, don’t need to beg them to sell. I am not a stock market expert, I also lost more than 5K due to expiry of warrant more than ten years ago. Recently also lost a few thousands trading in warrant. But I am not angry but for wine investment, I am a very Angry_Man because I was con and cheated!
Is there a way to contact inspector Ho besides his email address? An answer from him will be more accurate rather than reading in this forum.
To Stupid
What is Aztex Int’l, what they doing …is the company still open??
Is Dominic the boss there too?? Where is it ??
piggy, you have no right to judge anyone who critise Fred, or other ex-employee of UAG, we are the victims, do u know how hard its for us to save this amount and do u know how much this means to others ! you keep telling others not to slander ex UAG staff companies what i think they are right.. GUYS I support you, and i will tell THE WHOLE WORLD who are UAG ex employees whether they choose to believe in their company is their choice I will tell them my experience , and who are UAG ex employees piggy do u think its wrong to do that.. THE WORLD has the right to know right.. U scare they dun have business is it HAHA!
To peanut
YA Aztex is a time-share its close heard that a lot of investors are affected and according its seems that DOM is the person in charge and i did ask ASP HO
Piggy i begin to wonder that u have an interest in their business.. U scare that we spoilt their rice bowl ???? u have the guts come out and confront who are and not just sit there and act noble telling people be objective and defend UAG ex staff… BULL-SHIT just wait u lost that amount of money and think in other people shoes.. I HATE people like u…. just sit and enjoy other people sorrow same for U Elisha, tell u guys what there is another wine company guarantee 50% return u dare to invest? I DAre u.. or u have the guts to invest in their COMPANY !!! STOP ALL THIS CRAP, u expect honest people like us who work hard for our money to get CHEAT by these people again… and let our love ones or other innocent get hurt.. I will definately paste poster around my neighhood and tell about Wine investment and other ex-employees setting up company whether they believe its up to them!
i will definitely write to case to ask them to keep an eye on these companies to safe-guard all consumer rights and i want to know why if DOM is the in charge of AZtex and why if this company is in trouble why they allow him to register another company…
other investors, who have storage with 12 degree its seems that UAG has owned them 8 months storage fees, my advise is i think 12 degree is also frustrated , for me i will bear the cost as if you think of it the cost of wine is more than the storage cost and moreover we are at the losing end unless u can find buyer.. i just want to let the dust settle. do keep urself update with UAG status by logging in to company registry once if the creditors come after the ASSET seek your lawyer to file urself as one of the creditors and it will safe u the legal fees so when comes to liquidate ur interest are considered
thks
To all culprits, i dun know who u are but u know who u are.. i wonder whether u are given birth by your parents, u people have a heart? are u people beast or what. We are just pure investors, we can accept losses in pure investment not scam , fraud, like other investment we know there is risk but the risk involve FRAUD?? piggy please think did UAG web site or terms and conditions states that losses is also inclusive of SCAM, i can accept losses if wine prices depreciate but not to CHEATERS PIGGY sometimes i think u are really a PIG that have no brain
To : mini mi
u can contact inspector HO @ 65575459
Sad to see that wine investment become another timeshare.
Suddenly came out so many small little wine investment company using timeshare re-sale method to cheat the investors.
I received email from Fred, saying that he is talking to Shawn and trying to come out with a plan to help investors from UAG..hmmm I find it rather suspicious of the letter i received, BUT IN THE FIRST PLACE
HOw Fred and Shawn got UAG clients data base, DID they plan it with Dominic or are they another scammer who stole data from UAG?? I would stay away mysekf from any new form company and also UAG ex staff. Once bitten twice shy. Fred and shawn or stanley, if u r reading this, please think for your family, do not try old tricks on us again. retribution will come one day ,if u care for your family ,please stop if u have the intention. Today is Dominic being wanted, 1 day it will be your turn,think before u execute.
samuel, you are probably right, fred, shawn, stan are all scammers. now that dominic is avoiding everyone, once the rest have their fair share and squeeze out every possible cent from all investors, they will close down too. reliable sources have told me that the whole group was seen drinking together at a ktv recently. they will get their retribution 1 day…
Maybe we should email the reporter who write and expose UAG news in the paper to write about all this new setup company, also write about our feeling and how we suspect all this new company who was setup recently, this will definitely bring awareness to the singapore public. I am sure with this, all the scammer will be no far from running away or close their company. any one here got better idea
Hi Guys,
So anyone has any bad experience with AWI? They always show the profits from other investors and such, claiming the storage fees included for 3 yrs and such. I have checked out the price against their offer price, its lower than market price or online merchants even before the online merchants adding their shipping costs. Same vintage bottle like the 2005 Elderton “Command” Shiraz offering to investors at S$90 with 3 yrs storage.
They are asking me to invest with them. Robert Parker ratings of 97 has just be released.
Desmond & TOM
Despite your busy schedule. I must say thank you for your updates all along regards to UAG. You have been helpful throughout. Appreciate….I shall see you there for the meeting this sat 4 jul. Thanks for arranging such an important meeting for all feeling ‘loss’ victims.
Hi Mickel
AWI..thats one of the worst I have heard. I invested with UAG because my friends told me not to invest with AWI, they have invested for long time and till now still couldnt sell their wine.AWI keep giving time excuses not to sell.My friends and his friends has met up with the Director in their office many times , still cant sell the wine. AWI only keen in asking them to buy and buy.In fact they have also gone to CASE and report and thinking of going to MAS or CAD now.Recently from this website they also found out that the BOSS of AWI has actually done a scam in australia before, some investors has also posted the link here. If you want, try checking the past post or you can google for Jeremy Kasler and U will be able to see the article on the scam done.What a sad country singapore is becoming,more and more scammer around and nothing has been done.Hope all this bastard will get karma and arrested and retribution .
Peanut
AWI has been around since 2002,and in this thread, you are the first mentioning about them as the worst, other’s has been complaining about UAG mostly. And some even commented that their friends did make some profit refer to SK on February 7th, 2009 at 3:34 am
What worst stories have you heard? Can you share with me, I read the article about the Jeremy Kasler and that is one of my concerns.
And your friends has been with them for a long time, how long is that? How much have they pumped in ?
Hi Mickel
My friend and his friends has done all ways to try to get awi to sell, but till now no news. total is 5 of them which come to lot of money from what i know.AWI keep changing brokers one after another, they have conclude no more investing with awi.now they are only waiting, after uag case,all of them are afraid that awi will goes into the same .moreever after reading about the scam that AWI boss has done previously in australia,that make them more worried. I was lucky that i didnt invest with awi, but unlucky when i invest with uag.If u talking about returns from awi, haha some even 1-3 % after such along time of investment …what a joke.They also tried many times to want to meet the boss of awi, but from what they told me, the boss hasnt been in singapore for a long long time and this make them more worried.
Guys, what you all say about AWI is so true. I have a Australian friend who got scam into timeshare by the company that Jeremy Kasler ,the boss of AWI setup in australia years back. Good luck to all the investors of AWI. Wonder will he scam again in singapore.
Dear all
Friday Chinese TV channel will talk about wine scam..must be UAG la. Good , so more people will know about it and all this new company.HOpe all close down. After the interview comes out, i guess more people will be aware. GOOD, so glad. finally justice comes
good. hope all the scam wine company gets featured. maybe should even show shawn / fred & stan’s face on TV so that people will throw rotten eggs at them when they are seen walking around.
Peanut, may i ask which chinese channel (ch 8 or ch u) and wat time will it be on??
I guess the programme is Frontline on Ch 8 at 10.30pm. My friend told me about it.
REALLY STUPID,
I think u have left out the important name - DOMINIC SIM. To me, the culprit is Dominic Sim and the directors and no one else. The one that owe us salary is UAG not anyone else. The one who mis apporiate the UAG funds and on the run is Dominic Sim not others. If other staff are involved, the order of arrest will be for those names that u mentioned as well and not just Dominic Sim.
This Friday 10.30pm on 8.
Is Fine Wine Investment Risk-free?: Recently, a group of disgruntled investors lodged police reports against a fine wine investment company for delaying payouts amounting to more than a thousand dollars per investor. One of them is a 61-year-old man who had taken up two investment schemes which matured in March and May respectively. To date, he has not received his principal sum and profits, nor has he been able to reach the management of the company. What are the risk factors involved in new and “alternative” investment instruments such as this? Before investing, what should an investor take note of? Who should be responsible if the investment goes wrong? Frontline reports.Producer: Dawn Khoo
http://8.mediacorptv.sg/tvguide.aspx?kw=tvschedule#TOPDAYSBAR
Hi Guys,
Just in case you want to know how dominic sim look like. You can visit this site.
http://ads1.shareinvestor.com/email/20082406_nextmove/
ex uag staff,
why are you so defensive? READ properly. i said show shawn / fred & stan’s face on TV. that already means to include dominic. i’m sure that the warrant of arrest for the rest of the gang will come soon.
Fred
http://www.investorexpo.com.my/images/speaker_Frederick.jpg
Stan
http://profile.ak.facebook.com/v229/1627/38/q616932778_2962.jpg
Dominic
http://ads1.shareinvestor.com/email/20082406_nextmove/dominic.jpg
really stupid,
If the police need to arrest that gang, they dont even need a warrant. Because this people is not on the run. Just an order of arrest will settle the problem. If u dont believe, call ASP Ho and ask him why CAD did not arrest Stan, Fred, Shawn since they are still in Singapore. It is only your wishful thinking. It does not work your way.
This Forum seems to become interesting, got photos to view. By the way, anyone knows whether is Dominic married? He got over 600 friends from all over the World in his facebook, looks like a playboy to me.
ex uag staff, the answer is because Dominic is the owner of the company. His name appear inside the ROC or ACRA. CAD did not arrest Stan, Fred and Shawn doesn;t mean they don;t involve into the scam. One of them can be the master mind and the rest can be the executors. All of them benefit from the scam. Of course Dominic got bigger share or profit from the scam. Because he is taking the risk of using his own name to do it. “High risk high returns” - “Low risk low returns”
Angry Man, how do you know Dominic have over 600 friends from all over the world from his facebook? Are you one of his “friend” inside the facebook as well?
Is it really true that Dominic has been arrested by CAD or is it rumours?
dom divorce with a kid
stan married
gavin married with a baby
fred married with kid
shawn single
anyone can update me tomorro detail n meeting place?
person of contact n number?
thank you.
Dear All
Are u all going to the meeting…after i received Fred email , I would not even bother to go. Please guys, these are people that work top management in UAG, dont tell me they dont know what UAG is up to in the beginning. Secondly , why do they have our data base, DO NOT forget, they left UAG before it was close….DONT YOU ALL THINK IT IS FISHY. They will try to scam us again. I would suggest not to go.
What meeting??
Dear S
You mean you dont know that fred is liasing with Shawn to call investors of UAG for meeting, trying to “HELP” Hahha. I wont even bother to attend.
They are using timeshare re-sale method to cheat more money.
Do take note that Orions Belt Network Pte Ltd “Timeshare company” has been served an injunction order by the Court. Please refer to the Straits Times article on 3rd October 2006.
Orions Belt Network is related to Chateau, Vino En Primeur and Oracle Wines.
Ros..
How do you know Orions Belt Network is link to Chateau,Vino En primeur and Oracle??? Who is the boss?? Dominic ?? Stanley?? Fred ?? Or Shawn?? Singapore is become a place for all this Illegal scam, WHY ?? Why cant someone do something to stop all this scam company ??? WHY
peanuts
What meeting? How come you have the info of the meeting while I didnt get any email on that? No one call me up to ask for meeting? when & where?
Dear Eric
Organised by Fred and Shawn la, they say will call us or get this gal Lynn to contact us. But i wont bother about the meeting, I agreed with what Peanut says, they wont do something that will not benefit them. Its abit ‘fishy” on the meeting.
If you want to know more, call Frderick, you might get con again.good luck.
By the way Ros,how come there are so many company that are link?/ How you found out??
jackson/Ros
how come u have so much details about UAG and even know how they share the profits %? Is what ur saying facts or plain speculation? If u have all these facts why dun u contact ASP Ho and report this case? If what you said is not factual, then what is the point of posting speculation that have no contribution to this matter.
So many ‘insight’ info given by people here about company connected to another company and I wonder why are you people here is so resourceful.
It does not seems that you guys are UAG victims because if ur so resourceful about the background of these companies and the people operating the business, ur not lkely to be victims. And if ur not victims, why are u posting all these info here? To rub salt to our wounds to show that ur smarter? If all that you are saying is true, then report to police and seek justice done. If you are neither, please do us a favor, stay out and let the police to assist us to get this matter cleared. Your input does not do us any good or make us feel any better.
heard that dominic is arrested already. true????
Mickey/Peanut,
I am not sure about you but I managed to recover my buy back stock 60bt back in my inventory in XII and will transfer all my 240 bts to my personal account.
You can say all you want about Fred but without his assistance and advice, I will not be able to get things done all by myself. Have you actually spoken to him? Do you know what did he offer? Did he sell you a scam buyback plan again? If he did, you can always report to ASP Ho.
For me, in a situation like this, I just listen first and use wisdom to discern what is appopriate and what is not. Whether be it gain or loss, the choice is still yours.
Hi Vick
Fred is just doing something that you dont know. If you are a smart investors, all you need to do is get the letter that UAG gave you about the bottle wines you bought and go down to XII degree and they will transfer that to you name, many of us has done that too. But with the guarantee return,you claime thaat U manage to recover you buy back??? HOw??Scan your paper that XII degree gave you and show to us here, no way anything can be done, its only that you didnt read the post here, thats why you think Fred has done alot for you. come on, why did fred open another company and calling UAG clients, how did he get all our data, THINK Vick…you think he do it for free…Most Important is HE IS THE TOP MANAGEMENT of UAG, DO YOU THINK HE DONT KNOW WHAT DOMINIC IS DOING, same goes to stan or shawn…IF U want to listen, its up to you, i basically think that alot of us here will NOT believed and WILL NOT even bother what he can do.HE IS NO SAINT, unless you are another fake investors here trying to say good things about him. Dont waste your time posting here as wehave info that the next one that CAD will go after is the TOP MANAGEMENT of UAG.I really think that you are another FOS.
Hi Vick , I agreed with Peanut, if you really are, please STOP it, I have lost alot of my money and do not want to here and bullshit here , i expect something relistic and advice. My wife has not got to know about the UAG investment goes bust, if she hear it from her friends or from the news , I am in deep shit.
up to this point still got ppl fighting for justice for these scammers…… haha …. all nonsense….
lets hope all these scammers get arrested first before they explore more scam business or other markets…..
and to the scammers and fake investors again…… careful when u are walking…. maybe u will just fall down and ….. welll guess ur luck after that ……. god will give you a nice surprise…
vick on
I don’t know how true is your info in retrieving your buy back wine. According to most of us here. All our wine under en primer wine that require 3 yrs min to bottle up like lafie 06,07 and etc. The next earliest batch of physical wine could be only october 09. I check with XII. There is no forcast of UAG wine received since last year aug 08. And Dominic opened a wine storage account but did not even place order on our wine at overseas at all, thats why classified as fraud.
Quite surpise of your claims when in the first place no wine ordered. What wine did you actually buy? Kind to share. I also aliaise with Fred. No news.
Finally meaning this Vick is another asshole from the scammer group trying to say good words about the scammer. What a sad group all these scammer?? Stay away from the discussion please.
Peanuts
My batch is due in Jan 09 with 12mths 10%, optional 24mths 22%. UAG did not make the payment to me despite following up with them. Till today, no payment was made. But it was a blessing that this batch of stock is in XII. Believe it if you want to and please do not make it sound as if you are the only victim in this event.
Watson,
I understand that there are different batches of wines. I do not have en premiur but I have another buy back due in May 09. But this stock is not in XII. I bought my wines from a broker but he has left sometime ago. I emailed Fred the details and he asked me to check with XII on invetory and the Jan buyback wines are there. I believe if my wines are there, some clients with the same batch will have their stock as well. It couldn’t be me alone. I am asking him for assistance as he will know the details better than I do. Unlike what Peanut said, when I spoke to Fred, he did not sell me anything. You spoken to him? did he sell you anything?
As for the May batch, I have made the police report and wiating for reply. You are right to say that I may be lucky but I still have buyback not accountable for.
Kt Ng,
Thanks for the namecalling. I will stay away as I dont see why I should be called an asshole when I provide some info that some may be benefit from it.
One-eye jack supposedly donated his kidney before he died, and that supposedly saved someone.
Is he a saint?